Match-up Discussion Raven Matchup Discussion

[Blind_Ducky]

Idk about really relying on sweep against Grundys Walking Corpse. Maybe I'm just testing it wrong because he still grabs me a lot of times when I try to use d3 to make the grab whiff. Same thing can be said about using b23. At the right distance you can get grabbed out of the b23.

What I find most effective against WALKING CORPSE is using a MB b3. The MB b3 absorbs the grab but you don't take ANY DMG from what I can tell. Hold it just long enough till you see him whiff the grab then let it rip for the wall bounce and continue with a full combo punish.

I agree it's not exactly to reliable but atleast it's an option. That mb b3/f3 sounds amazing though so thanks for that! Fuck I need to think more.

 

[Villest1]

I agree it's not exactly to reliable but atleast it's an option. That mb b3/f3 sounds amazing though so thanks for that! Fuck I need to think more.

Yeah it's really REALLY good IMO. It's starting to look like MB b3/f3 is going to be the answer to a lot of problems early on.

EDIT: the MB b3 option also works against Banes Raging Charge(as long as he doesn't have max trait). It looks like mb3 works against ALL normal command grabs. Meaning it makes the grab whiff but good luck reacting to a normal command grab. :/ Grundy and Bane practically announce when they are going to do Walking Corpse/Raging Charge so its much more viable there.

 

[Villest1]

During UltraChen last night Tyrant was talking about how to use interactables and he demonstrated something that never occurred to me. We can use interactables to avoid other interactables. With Raven being an Acrobatic Character I assume she can get around interactables more so than any other type of character. So I decided to run through the stages real quick to test some stuff out. Here are my results.


Heres the stream archive. The interactable stuff starts at about the 40 minute mark.
http://www.twitch.tv/ultrachentv/b/403283024

Proof of Concept Videos

Its possible to use the invincibility that some character types (in this case Acrobatic Cahracters) gain when they use interactables to avoid other unblockable interactables.

Spoiler

Gotham City
-The air conditioner on the rooftop can easily be jumped but if you want to close the distance use the Bat Sign to jump off and land directly in front of them.
Insurgency
-Use the robot suit in the left corner to avoid the laser.
Watchtower
-Use the computer on the right and the red button on the left to avoid thrown floating robots On the bridge.
Arkham/Joker Asylum
-The Flower in the left corner of the cell block can be avoided by jumping off the door.
-Use the chandelier to avoid the stone faces on the two pillars in the mess hall.
The Hall of Justice
-You can use the robot on the right and the statue head on the left to avoid getting hit by people throwing those little robots that roll around in the Plaza.
-You can use the teleporter on the right to avoid getting hit by the little spaceship looking thing in the great hall.
Wayne Manor
-Use the post that the gargoyle sits on the right of the entrance to avoid getting hit with the bike.
-Use the samurai on the right in the great room to avoid the piano.
-Use the chandelier in the center of the great room to avoid the piano or the chair.
-use the knight armor in the left corner to avoid the chair.
Atlantis
-use the stone tablet and the snow globe to avoid the water.
-use the pipe in the middle of the throne room to avoid the snow globe/stone tablet when thrown.

This stuff is probably old news to a lot of you but it was new to me and I was bored so I decided to mess around a little. Like I said this is just proof of concept. Theres still A TON to be discovered regarding this tech so hopefully some of the more scientific players decide to explore it.

BTW I only tested this stuff out with POWER characters. So this stuff is NOT UNIVERSAL by any means. As we all know different characters use interactables differently. I hope people choose to test this stuff out before putting it to use. A lot of the different interactables require different timing in order to avoid attacks So just an FYI.

 

[Villest1]

Btw this I THINK works for ALL unblockables.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Btw this I THINK works for ALL unblockables.

I'll quote this one because it has less text and I don't feel like quoting the other and deleting stuff. Yeah it's nice avoiding interactables with other interactables lol.her teleport is awesome for it too.

 

[MrSoloLobo]

I did not know about this interactable stuff before. Dirty!!

 

[CY MasterHavik]

What do you guys think of Raven vs. KF?

It seems if she blocks 223 she can't punish it with slide and will get launch for her troubles. Anything else to note. I think she can control space better than us sicne she has a safe slide and a amazing airdash.

 

[Sami]

223 is +6 on block so isn't being punished by anything. However, there is a gap between 2 and 3 which can be punished with KF's parry.

Hard mode: soul crush and singularity beat the slide. Air dash gets blown up by SC and Sin if used at the wrong range. A lot of her air-dash options get beat by a neutral jump 1 or 2. Blocked ice spikes lead to Soul Crush or full combo at close range. Singularity can only be punished by Raven at point-blank range; if she's out of 1 or 2 range then the rest of her moves will be blocked. Bad thing is that a blocked Soul Crush leads to Ice Spikes at range and pain close up.

Easy mode: demon stance allows you to out-zone her in a nigh-on 100% safe way. Event Horizon and Negative Mass are safe at range on block (-6 and 0 respectively).

Not saying it's an easy match by any means, but the tools are there. I personally would put it even as there's nothing in KF's armoury that outright counter's Raven's play-style. Yes we have to play a bit more cautious, but all players have to do the same vs. Raven thanks to the grabs. Just need to ensure that you use safe block-strings. Gaps between the string and the special don't matter as none of the specials are affected by the parry.

That unblockable command throw is annoying and she has a dash on it, and IIRC can MB it for a combo. It's beaten by ducking though.

 

[Villest1]

Vids showing that you CAN counter Grundy's Walking Corpse and Bane's Raging Charge with MB 3. However MB 3 DOES NOT work if Bane has FULL TRAIT.

 

[Villest1]

What do you guys think of Raven vs. KF?

It seems if she blocks 223 she can't punish it with slide and will get launch for her troubles. Anything else to note. I think she can control space better than us sicne she has a safe slide and a amazing airdash.

I have been messing around with a little dirty tactic to deal with her slide. When shes looking like she might slide whiff a d1 but option select a Singularity or Soul Crush. The d1 will stop the slide clean and then she will get hit with the Singularity/Crush. Its a relatively safe way to deal with the slide because if she doesn't slide you just whiff a d1 (which is 7 frames. Or is it 8 frames? Either way its a very fast normal and is pretty tough to punish) and if she slides she gets stuffed and punished.

Be aware though you need to be preemptive. If you do it too late you will get hit with the slide. You need to be able to gauge their distance and read their habits in order to pull this off successfully .

I'll upload a vid of it later. Plz dont mind if I constantly upload pointless vids btw. I'm getting my moneys worth from the ElGato one way or another.

EDIT: Slide OS/Punish

You can potentially OS your special/super of choice behind the D1.

 

[CY MasterHavik]

Would you guys says we beat KF?

 

[Sami]

Pretty balanced to be honest - both characters have safe and unsafe options that need to be used appropriately, and both punish each other just as well when the opponent fucks up. It's a very cautious match-up

 

[PeeJaeys]

Now that I think of it. The one problem I do have with raven is the damn range on her normals. Makes me rage a little bit inside when I know I could have so destroyed certain characters if only her poke was a little bit farther, or her back 1 2 wasn't so short.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Now that I think of it. The one problem I do have with raven is the damn range on her normals. Makes me rage a little bit inside when I know I could have so destroyed certain characters if only her poke was a little bit farther, or her back 1 2 wasn't so short.

F2 > b1

 

[Kiko]

Has anyone covered that batman matchup yet? I think I really just need help dealing with the ridiculous ambiguous JI cross up.

One more question, would b12 be a good idea between the gaps in his strings (or blocked strings) ?

 

[SaltShaker]

This thread has helped me immensely. Thank you all for your contributions. I'd also like to ask two things about Raven.

1- what is her best options against close range jump ins and cross ups? Similar to what the member above my post is asking. Sing seems to always whiff up close and her D2 is just horrible at times. What is the best way to deal with this?

2- what is the best way to punish things at a slight distance after block when you know you have a good amount of advantage? For example, a blocked Deathstroke flipping sword. With Grundy you can just 112 into 55% combo, as many chars can kill this off block, but all I can ever get off is soul crush. There must be a way to combo off of that or things of that nature.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[MrSoloLobo]

2- what is the best way to punish things at a slight distance after block when you know you have a good amount of advantage? For example, a blocked Deathstroke flipping sword.

f22u1 f222 db2MB b3 j2 f222 df2

 

[SaltShaker]

f22u1 f222 db2MB b3 j2 f222 df2

yes. Yes! YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for this!!!! I've already started using it to punish unsafe attacks and its working like a charm with hella damage!!! One weaknesses filled!

 

[Villest1]

SINESTRO

-ALL of Siestros specials (Maybe not Arachnid Sting due to frame data changes in a recent patch ) are punishable by Soul Crush, Singularity and F222 on block provided your in range for each respective punish.

-while in Demon Mode both Impact Event (boulder) and Final Shackles are punishable on block by Event Horizon from full screen. But you need to be on point when punishing the Shackles because the timing is tight and It needs to be a frame perfect reversal. BTW this is a pain in the ass to pull off consistently online. With Impact Event though you have a little more time to work with. Great for closing the distance.

-when dealing with full screen boulders you can dash forward on reaction and punish Sinestro with a Soul Crush. You have enough time to dash in twice for better positioning.

EDIT: According to the patch notes for tomorrows patch Sinestros will see a couple changes. More specifically this: Arachnid Sting (Down, Forward 2) is now has a block advantage of -12 (down from -36) and is a Mid attack (changed from High).

 

[Kiko]

SINESTRO

-ALL of Siestros specials are punishable by Soul Crush, Singularity and F222 on block provided your in range for each respective punish.

-while in Demon Mode both Impact Event (boulder) and Final Shackles are punishable on block by Event Horizon from full screen. But you need to be on point when punishing the Shackles because the timing is tight and It needs to be a frame perfect reversal. BTW this is a pain in the ass to pull off consistently online. With Impact Event though you have a little more time to work with. Great for closing the distance.

DEALING WITH FULL SCREEN SINESTRO BOULDERS
-when your all out of trait you can use MB3 on reaction to Impact Event to absorb the hit then dash forward and punish him with soul crush. Keep in mind that you WILL STILL TAKE FULL DAMAGE from the Boulder. Point of this is not to avoid the 8% damage. The point is to get in and to punish him for just throwing boulders out recklessly.

-after the Soul Crush you have enough time for one or maybe two dashes to get to where Raven wants to be. You can choose to burn another bar for an additional soul crush if you want to get a little extra DMG and maybe better positioning.

Keep in mind that pulling this off in a match where the Sinestro player is bombarding you with Projectiles and Shackles is kind of tough to say the least and online is another story altogether but at least it's another option. Luckily Sinestros animation before summoning the boulder is pretty long and recognizable.

BTW I know I'm using the Reversal Mode to get him to throw the Boulders but I promise I'm doing it on reaction to the animation. Try it. It's not that hard.

Also I personally use f3 because its MUCH easier for me but using b3 is still possible.

Absolutely great advice thanks

 

[Villest1]

Absolutely great advice thanks

Yeah I thought so too until I realized you can just dash forward on reaction to the boulder animation without absorbing the boulder and still be able to punish him. LOL I thought I found some exclusive tech. luckily you quoted me so i will forever remember this failure. It's been a long night don't mind me. X)

At least the other stuff still stands true.

BTW Interactables Raven is able to Meter Burn as an acrobatic character.

Spoiler

ATLANTIS
-the water on the left and right.

BATCAVE: Crime Lab
-missiles on the right.
BATCAVE:Lagoon
-barrels on the right.

INSURGENCY
-None

FERRIS AIRCRAFT
-Propane tank looking things.

GOTHAM CITY
-None

WATCHTOWER: Bridge
-Floating Robots
WATCHTOWER: Reactor
-Floating Robots

FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE: Laboratory
- Ice Crystal thing in the middle.
FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE: Menagerie
-None

THEMYCIRA: Temple
-Lion Heads
THEMYCIRA: Port
-Cannon

STRYKERS ISLAND: Cell Block
-Robot Guards Shotgun
STRYKERS ISLAND: Yard
-Explosive Tanks

METROPOLIS: Street
-None
METROPOLIS: Rooftop
-None
METROPOLIS: Museum
-None

ARKHAM/JOKER'S ASYLUM: Cell Block
-None
ARKHAM/JOKER'S ASYLUM: Mess Hall
-Stone Faces

HALL OF JUSTICE: Plaza
-None
HALL OF JUSTICE: Great Hall
-None

WAYNE MANOR/ NIGHT: Entrance
-None
WAYNE MANOR/ NIGHT: Great Room
-None

 

[Kiko]

Yeah I thought so too until I realized you can just dash forward on reaction to the boulder animation without absorbing the boulder and still be able to punish him. LOL I thought I found some exclusive tech. luckily you quoted me so i will forever remember this failure. It's been a long night don't mind me. X)

At least the other stuff still stands true.

BTW Interactables Raven is able to Meter Burn as an acrobatic character.

Spoiler

ATLANTIS
-the water on the left and right.

BATCAVE: Crime Lab
-missiles on the right.
BATCAVE:Lagoon
-barrels on the right.

INSURGENCY
-None

FERRIS AIRCRAFT
-Propane tank looking things.

GOTHAM CITY
-None

WATCHTOWER: Bridge
-Floating Robots
WATCHTOWER: Reactor
-Floating Robots

FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE: Laboratory
- Ice Crystal thing in the middle.
FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE: Menagerie
-None

THEMYCIRA: Temple
-Lion Heads
THEMYCIRA: Port
-Cannon

STRYKERS ISLAND: Cell Block
-Robot Guards Shotgun
STRYKERS ISLAND: Yard
-Explosive Tanks

METROPOLIS: Street
-None
METROPOLIS: Rooftop
-None
METROPOLIS: Museum
-None

ARKHAM/JOKER'S ASYLUM: Cell Block
-None
ARKHAM/JOKER'S ASYLUM: Mess Hall
-Stone Faces

HALL OF JUSTICE: Plaza
-None
HALL OF JUSTICE: Great Hall
-None

WAYNE MANOR/ NIGHT: Entrance
-None
WAYNE MANOR/ NIGHT: Great Room
-None

I always assumed dashing would be an obvious way to escape but sometimes i tend to fudge up dashing between boulders. Still great advice that I can ignore things like that with MB, move into another dash, and punish with SC

 

[Villest1]

I always assumed dashing would be an obvious way to escape but sometimes i tend to fudge up dashing between boulders. Still great advice that I can ignore things like that with MB, move into another dash, and punish with SC

Yeah it is obvious and the funny part is I knew about dashing the boulders since practically day 1. Idk how it slipped my mind. :/


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[Kiko]

Since we're on the subject of f3 and b3, how does the armor work on it? Is it that I have super armor for 1 hit during the duration of the charge (that's just what I assumed) ?

Also I've noticed that aqua man can break out of demon stance lift db2 EX before the actual second hit. Is this a known fact? Maybe his trait helps with that right ? And if so how :S

 

[Villest1]

Since we're on the subject of f3 and b3, how does the armor work on it? Is it that I have super armor for 1 hit during the duration of the charge (that's just what I assumed) ?

Also I've noticed that aqua man can break out of demon stance lift db2 EX before the actual second hit. Is this a known fact? Maybe his trait helps with that right ? And if so how :S

Yeah that's exactly how b3 and f3 work.

As for AquaMans trait I believe he can trait out of any combo as long as he isn't airborne. As soon as he's in the air his trait wont work.


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