You Got CAGED! - The Johnny Cage Matchup Thread

[Zebster]

*edit*
Really outdated information and matchup info. It needs to be fixed sometime soon.

 

[Zebster]

Come on guys, can we at least get some discussion going related to this?

 

[dope619]

[EVIL][COMMENT][COMMENT][/COMMENT][/COMMENT][/EVIL]

Come on guys, can we at least get some discussion going related to this?

yea no doubt mayn.. 75% of my experience is online so take it how you want it. with that said lets move on.. these just off top of my head.

SUB ZERO - hard hard hard match against a good sub. nobody wants cage in on them, so a good sub is going to throw balls, and come in with strings and maybe cancel into ice clone to make it safe. The most success i have is an ex shadow kick, immediately after blocking a freeze ball, then pressure on. watch out for wake up slide, and punish hard with f4 when you block it. remember if you stay close the whole time, ice clone wont come out so you take that away from him. ending in nut punch is important, because if you kick them away, or let them wake up, you basically reset the game. if you notice a pattern (which good players do not have), then jump over a freeze ball and jp into combo of choice.

LIU KANG - anytime i face a liu kang player, i never let them get within striking distance. his mixups can be pretty brutal, and he can easily dictate the pace of a match. I find great success sweeping, or njp/crossover jp/jump back, after blocking a string. the only real option a liu kang player has to stop the pressure after a knock down is a parry, so its not bad to sweep him, as his wake up options are limited. sweep the parry! oh and save your meter for a breaker in this one, unless youre facing a real aggressive LK, then its "cmon..."

KANO - #$#*! UPBALL AND KNIVES. kano's new low combo starter aint bad, but it dont mean much when you can out rush him. He gives problems to cage when he zones and baits the jump, then upball spams. All i can say for now on this one is dash block, end combos with nut punch most definitely, and if you knock him down, be prepared for a wake up upball..

KUNG LAO - you cant read a damn KL player. if you try, theres a good chance you'll get messed up. wait for him to come to you. He will come at you either by dive kick, tele, or rush in. cant really speak too much on this, but you must must must, punish spins with shadow kick, punish tele's with either uppercut or b3, and punish blocked dive kicks with b3. jumping in on KL is also not a good idea, not unless you wanna jump into the all $%& mighty spin.

SMOKE - dash block, dash block, dash block. the ex shadow kick also works against a smoke cloud spammer. keep the pressure on, end combos with nutpunch, and bait the telepunch. Dont let smoke in on you, get in on him, because boy his combos hurt.

ERMAC - dont let ermac zone you out. dash block to him, and punish force lift/push with shadow kick. If you knock him down, watch out for wakeup forcelift, because he will probably combo you.

will add more as thoughts come.

 

[LordSpectreX]

With Sub Zero, I find the best thing to do is to just try to get an early life lead, preferably with EX Shadow Kick, and then just block low and turtle. Sub Zero's ice ball does no chip, so he can't just hide behind clones, he has to go to you, meaning that he actually does your job for you. It's just getting that early life lead.

Kano is a hard matchup for him. The best thing I find is to dash block and then do a shadow kick to punish the startup of a knife. Upball fortunatly can be punished with an Uppercut and probably a Shadow Kick. The main point of this matchup is to get Kano in the corner via shadow kicks. Once you do that and look out for wakeup upballs, he is at your mercy, and the matchup becomes much better.

With both of these, there is a way to get the advantage, it's just hard.

The character I find harder to beat than Kano is Kitana. It's very similar, but unlike with the Kano matchup, Kitana can just do her air body rush to get her out of the corner, or even just get away when Cage is getting near her, not to mention it's uses as an anti air. Luckily, the fans aren't quite as quick as Kano's knifes, but I still find the matchup more difficult. Any ideas?

 

[Zebster]

OP updated, with a little more info and information posted thus far, and included a bit at the end to guide the discussion a bit.

 

[R.E.L.]

I'm working on a Cage matchup guide. I'll post when completed.

Btw - I don't agree with the comment vs Liu Kang. Kang has better zoning options than Cage, so you have to get in. Learn how to block Kang's combo strings and punish. Watch for random kicks/wake up and try to bait.

Also, vs Ermac you can cross him up on wakeup if you think he's gonna gravity squeeze you. Ermac has a problem with being crossed up and you can punish a missed wake up with a full combo off that cross-up punch.

 

[dope619]

I'm working on a Cage matchup guide. I'll post when completed.

Btw - I don't agree with the comment vs Liu Kang. Kang has better zoning options than Cage, so you have to get in. Learn how to block Kang's combo strings and punish. Watch for random kicks/wake up and try to bait.

Also, vs Ermac you can cross him up on wakeup if you think he's gonna gravity squeeze you. Ermac has a problem with being crossed up and you can punish a missed wake up with a full combo off that cross-up punch.

ahh what i meant was get in on him, dont let him get in on you. of course cage gotta get in to do real dmg, and LK has a great iaf and low fireball

 

[MagiCurtains]

Kung Lao: Against Kung Lao, 2 of the moves in his arsenal are the teleport and spin. Teleport is very safe means of approach and spins have too much of a reward to not just throw out when you're unaware. When Kung Lao teleports he is left with 4 options. His fastest option is FK after teleport which will literally beat out everything but Uppercut on reaction. B3 is too slow for the screen switch. However, the easiest method to beat all 4 of his teleport options is to simply move forward. This movement is not even significant but a simple toggle forward. All his moves will whiff and you may punish with B3.

The most ideal punishment is +, dash, , dash, , dash, , dash, xx (nut punch) 31%

His spin is similar in punishment. The easiest way to punish is to block his spin and dash towards slightly and use b3(punish with the combo above). To practice the timing if you don't have a partner, simply set the cpu on block always. Then set it on wake up attacks.

Unless punished thoroughly, Kung Lao is free to abuse his priority. Ending with a nut punch is also very important. The state it leaves them in gives them more to think about as they will have no options but to block your pressure. 31% and unfavorable position is not to be taken lightly.

 

[Kyles]

As a decent Sektor player i can say that JC is defenitly the easiest match up for me. Iv beaten people with over 85-90% win records with ease.

Have any of you found a way to beat Sektor?

 

[R.E.L.]

Kung Lao: Against Kung Lao, the 2 most common things he will do is teleport and spin. Teleport is very safe means of approach and spins have too much of a reward to not just throw out when you're unaware. When Kung Lao teleports he is left with 4 options. His fastest option is FK after teleport which will literally beat out everything but Uppercut on reaction. B3 is too slow for the screen switch. However, the easiest method to beat all 4 of his teleport options is to simply move forward. This movement is not even significant but a simple toggle forward. All his moves will whiff and you may punish with B3.

The most ideal punishment is +, dash, , dash, , dash, , dash, xx (nut punch) 31%

His spin is similar in punishment. The easiest way to punish is to block his spin and dash towards slightly and use b3(punish with the combo above). To practice the timing if you don't have a partner, simply set the cpu on block always. Then set it on wake up attacks.

Unless punished thoroughly, Kung Lao is free to abuse his priority. Ending with a nut punch is also very important. The state it leaves them in gives them more to think about as they will have no options but to block your pressure. 31% and unfavorable position is not to be taken lightly.

The top 2 things Kung Lao does is spin and low hat throw. Kung Lao really has no reason to slow teleport against Cage, unless Cage decides to throw balls full screen (which is a bad idea, KL wins on speed of projectiles).

Because of your opponent's tendency to spin on wake up, ending combos in nut punch might not be the best option. While ending in nut punch does in fact give you some mix up options, if I know I can bait my opponent to wake up with spin, I can punish with a full combo and deal another 31% (maybe second time end with nut punch).

 

[MagiCurtains]

The top 2 things Kung Lao does is spin and low hat throw. Kung Lao really has no reason to slow teleport against Cage, unless Cage decides to throw balls full screen (which is a bad idea, KL wins on speed of projectiles).

Because of your opponent's tendency to spin on wake up, ending combos in nut punch might not be the best option. While ending in nut punch does in fact give you some mix up options, if I know I can bait my opponent to wake up with spin, I can punish with a full combo and deal another 31% (maybe second time end with nut punch).

I suppose I've worded it incorrectly about the 2 most common moves. I was simply stating a counter to those options which he has. The tendency to spin on wake up, I assume you mean in the corner since flip kick and shadow kick simply pushes them too far mid-screen.

While mix up options is a nice touch after nut punch frame advantage, it's the opportunity to pressure consistently which is helpful. If Johnny Cage has the ability to set up for a second after the nut punch, you may bait spins during your pressure instead. It's also helpful because spin isn't the only wake up option Kung Lao has(delayed techs, rolls, enhanced teleports). Usually against Kung Lao, it's better to remove his wake up options instead of respecting it.

Not trying to say what I assume is better, but it's just my take on it. Although outside my reply, I think one thing we should discuss the most is how to land the first hit on each match-up.

 

[Chaseyjoe]

Cage's high arching projectile can easily knock Kitana out of the sky when she does her air rush. Once she's on the ground, just rush her. The only effective wake up she has is her air rush, which I doubt she'll use again right after it failed. Watch out for her enhanced bb(bk) wakeup though. I blocked it can be punished with a shadow kick, or even a full combo. Her projectiles can be ducked so those shouldn't be a problem.

 

[MagiCurtains]

I've learned a lot of Valuable information at CEO on match-ups mostly from pestering Tom Brady. Some also pretty decent info from experience and other kind players. A Just a bit of tips you might need to know.

Raiden: When I faced PR Barlog's Raiden(we were both very unfamiliar with the match up) during the pools I managed to knock him into the losers with complete luck. However, after Raiden's 3,3,4 string (the most common string he used on me after a jump in) he always attempted + (jab) then attempt another string. Simply hold back since you have nothing to lose. You can punish his jab with B3 which goes into a full combo. (Wish I figured it out sooner so I wouldn't have been knocked out in losers > <, but I'm sure you guys will find it more useful to know)

Raiden's projectiles:

You can dash block and then duck to go under his projectiles. It is actually very important to block before ducking since it removes the delay from dash into crouch(takes a lot of time for your character to duck normally so you'll be hit by projectiles).
Close to midscreen you can easily jump over Raiden's fireballs on reaction to punish him.
In the new patch, Johnny is supposed to have super armor on his Enhanced Shadow kick. You may use that on reaction to fireballs against zoners, which include Raiden.(Would've been very useful at the time lol)


Like with every character you face, you must end your combos with nut punch to stop his superman or teleport wake up options.
Tom Brady also commented that if Raiden teleports behind you, simply use an uppercut (7 frame uppercut) since it stops them from jumping over you.

I'm not sure how credible this is. I tested things during the match with PR Balrog. An angled jump 1 will beat out his superman. I noticed this, so I attempted to bait out a superman by jumping to see if a neutral jump 1 would beat it. Which it doesn't. So don't be afraid to jump if he's using Superman to anti air you.

Lastly for now, you may x-ray between his 3,3,4 string before 4 connects (very important considering Raiden can no longer pressure you. Yes, you can do this on reaction).

If anyone wants to test what strings Johnny can x-ray counter in between it'd be really useful.

Cyrax: Only a small tip here given by Tom and other additions since it's not fully explored. If Cyrax crosses you up, you have the option of Jumping if you're in the lead. Cyrax doesn't have strong air to air options and if you block it will only need into pressure or possible command grab(which you want to avoid at all costs). So taking the air to air damage is worth it.

Midscreen Cyrax tends to drop bombs and nets. If you see his bomb being dropped, jump foward to punish him or get closer. Always block a net, if you see one coming then stand still blocking until it hits you. Never risk trying to avoid it.

 

[mPariah]

Does anybody have any experience against Reptile? I played one yesterday and had kinda a rough time. Very hard to dash block when Reptiles dash is so fast. Combined with forceballs and acid spit it's pretty tough. Also idk if it was just me being slow, but whenever I tried to punish the dash it would just be blocked, although I didn't try an uppercut. Could you do a horizontal kick to punish? Possible to punish with a combo?

Also, any more Raiden tips would be appreciated, I played my first Raiden yesterday and did alright but still got beat. I tried uppercutting after teleports like you said, Magi, but it usually got stuffed by the standard raiden strings. He'd also teleport out of my string pressure a lot, although if you go for a grab it will grab him out of the teleport. I guess if you read he's going to do that you could do a jump back punch into block string or combo if he hits buttons?

 

[McNasty]

reptile is a tough match gotta keep on him with shadow kicks and 21 pressure or else he will zone you out and keep you afraid of elbow dash.

Raiden gotta do it on reaction as fast as you can to hit the uppercut. I like to sweep or throw just gotta read them if they are going to repeat a sweep after tele or throw.

 

[dope619]

vs raiden on reaction to tele, i jump back or cross in, and if they start to tele, jump over cross, i njp if possible, otherwise uppercut on reaction is pretty realiable. my play style is me goin in hard on them... not them coming to me. shadow kick works well also vs a tele, but not too much because they will start to block. also these 2 guys got some bad ass corner combos... raiden vs cage.

 

[Zebster]

OP updated, something to test:

Lastly for now, you may x-ray between his 3,3,4 string before 4 connects (very important considering Raiden can no longer pressure you. Yes, you can do this on reaction).

If anyone wants to test what strings Johnny can x-ray counter in between it'd be really useful.

Also, we need to rethink some matchups with the new buff.

 

[R.E.L.]

This whole thread is going to have to be re-evaluated due to Cage getting Armor on his EX Shadow Kick. Why?

Because now you can pressure zoning characters.

Sub Zero for example. On reaction you can EX kick through his iceball or statue. This really makes things easier for Cage to get in close where he is best.

Thoughts?

 

[Zebster]

This whole thread is going to have to be re-evaluated due to Cage getting Armor on his EX Shadow Kick. Why?

Because now you can pressure zoning characters.

Sub Zero for example. On reaction you can EX kick through his iceball or statue. This really makes things easier for Cage to get in close where he is best.

Thoughts?

Definitely, the armor on Enh. Shadow Kick is a major buff in helping Johnny get in on zoners. There's going to have to be a lot of testing and playing other players to see just how much it helps though.

 

[mPariah]

This whole thread is going to have to be re-evaluated due to Cage getting Armor on his EX Shadow Kick. Why?

Because now you can pressure zoning characters.

Sub Zero for example. On reaction you can EX kick through his iceball or statue. This really makes things easier for Cage to get in close where he is best.

Thoughts?

Yeah, honestly I think NRS is going to remove the buff in a coming patch. Having armor on a move that fast that goes full screen just seems OP. It will definitely help some MU's like sub-zero but i feel like it will break other ones. IDK, maybe we'll see. I still haven't actually gotten to play on the new patch yet because of the goddamn 360.

 

[MagiCurtains]

Yeah, honestly I think NRS is going to remove the buff in a coming patch. Having armor on a move that fast that goes full screen just seems OP. It will definitely help some MU's like sub-zero but i feel like it will break other ones. IDK, maybe we'll see. I still haven't actually gotten to play on the new patch yet because of the goddamn 360.

To be honest, it felt like a really uphill battle without any means to get past ice clones.
Sub-Zero usually had to be the one to make a mistake before you could approach him. I'm not sure if this would make Cage OP since it requires meter. How much meter does Cage normally get against characters who range him out in the first place?

I can't make any assumptions yet, but if you can make other people afraid to throw fireballs when you have meter...
Still not sure if this situation will ever mean anything since I just made it up on the fly. If at the start of the match you can only get meter with the very first hit that aren't armor hits, Cage goes up against Noob. Would a Noob player hesitate to throw a fireball if Cage can now react to it and get the first meter with 12%?

I'm wondering if you can actually bait something like Enhanced Shadow kick to get a full combo on Cage and make him waste a bar.

 

[mPariah]

To be honest, it felt like a really uphill battle without any means to get past ice clones.
Sub-Zero usually had to be the one to make a mistake before you could approach him. I'm not sure if this would make Cage OP since it requires meter. How much meter does Cage normally get against characters who range him out in the first place?

I can't make any assumptions yet, but if you can make other people afraid to throw fireballs when you have meter...
Still not sure if this situation will ever mean anything since I just made it up on the fly. If at the start of the match you can only get meter with the very first hit that aren't armor hits, Cage goes up against Noob. Would a Noob player hesitate to throw a fireball if Cage can now react to it and get the first meter with 12%?

I'm wondering if you can actually bait something like Enhanced Shadow kick to get a full combo on Cage and make him waste a bar.

Hmm interesting. I can definitely see the metagame at the very beginning being extremely important. Who knows, in a year maybe the whole match will be decided by who guesses what at the beginning of the round.

 

[ando1184]

last night i had a session my friend and i played sub vs his cage. the ex shadow kick definitely gives cage a better chance especially timed correctly, like when i iceblast or clone. even when my ex clone was out it owned it and i either took da kick or blocked, but if i blocked i got a full combo so its still that punishable. so imo its not that OP'd and it just means sub players have to be smarter, i started only using clones after he jumped or tried to DC me and it still made my sub game work just fine. so i dont think the buff should be touched. also, i play a little of cage myself and did they nerf the dmg on his ex flash kick? i coulda swore it did more than 13%

 

[Zebster]

last night i had a session my friend and i played sub vs his cage. the ex shadow kick definitely gives cage a better chance especially timed correctly, like when i iceblast or clone. even when my ex clone was out it owned it and i either took da kick or blocked, but if i blocked i got a full combo so its still that punishable. so imo its not that OP'd and it just means sub players have to be smarter, i started only using clones after he jumped or tried to DC me and it still made my sub game work just fine. so i dont think the buff should be touched. also, i play a little of cage myself and did they nerf the dmg on his ex flash kick? i coulda swore it did more than 13%

Think so... iirc it did 16% before... doesn't matter, I never used it, way too punishable compared to the normal version.

 

[Loot]

Raiden's b312 can be xrayed as well.