Strategy Arrow (Trait) loading time

[GodsLonelyman]

Before I start writing, all I'm about to say is based on personal experience with the character and is just food for thought, not a cry for buffs or whining. With that out of the way, let me begin.

My only gripe about Green Arrow at the moment is the arrow (Trait) loading time. With the way it works now, Green Arrow can really get outclassed by alot of the top tier characters. Currently, I feel Green Arrow struggles against characters with good zoning/keep away tools and also struggles starting any offense. Against certain characters, you cannot load an arrow for free because while you're loading, you're free to punishment. So what happens is that the only way to load an arrow safely is after a bnb.The problem with that is that you sacrifice damage and green arrows damage output is already low to begin with

9 times out of 10 I find myself loading to an ice arrow after a bnb because I feel that is the best one for mixups and finding an opening. Green arrows f2d13 and d1 and fuzzy guard shennanigans are decent and his best setups, but when you're facing an opponent that knows how to deal with it, finding an opening becomes a chore, unless you can pin them down in a corner, whcih is not easy to do in this game due to mechanics that prevent it and interactables. What happens then is you're stuck with an ice arrow and you're chasing your opponent down for that ice arrow and a dream, unless you can sneak a load on them, and the opponent will abuse this fact. With his regular arrows you cant really trade and slow done a zoner either because they only do 1 percent damage, so you'll lose every trade. I only find them usefull for block frame traps as they are. Green Arrow has really good bnb's and has the tools to slow down a zoner but the problem with them is that you need a specific arrow pre determined and pre loaded to make them happen. What happens then is you're stuck in the loop I described above stuck with the wrong arrow for the wrong situation. I mean, you can load arrows from time to time but against opponents that are aware of how his trait works and have tools to stop it, you'll get punished hard just for loading an arrow.

I really like this character no matter what and will play him regardless but I think a small buff ( faster loading times for his trait) would benefit him alot. We'd be able to extend/perform his bnb's without having to have an arrow preloaded (we'd be able to switch mid combo) "ie: ji2, 113-df4-4, B3, DD4-4" and we'd be able to slow down heavy zoners more effectively by being able to switch faster to an appropriate zoning arrow and not getting punished for it. I think this minor buff is reasonable and not game breaking, Considering some of the really broken stuff some other characters have. What do you guys think?
colt REO Seapeople Krayzie @shaowebb

 

[Erazor]

When I find myself with no arrow loaded, I try to hit my opponent with a normal arrow, since they are +28 (+10 low) on hit, meaning you get a load for free afterwards. Now the problem with this is that you can't do that against certain characters (Aquaman, Black Adam) because they can stuff the n4 with their faster projectiles. Have you ever tried firing an arrow against a CPU Aquaman on very hard? Also, you can't punish their ranged attacks with your own, because they are too slow and the normal arrows don't do damage on block. I would vote for a slight decrease of n4 startup, since it also benefits the loading time.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

When I find myself with no arrow loaded, I try to hit my opponent with a normal arrow, since they are +28 (+10 low) on hit, meaning you get a load for free afterwards. Now the problem with this is that you can't do that against certain characters (Aquaman, Black Adam) because they can stuff the n4 with their faster projectiles. Have you ever tried firing an arrow against a CPU Aquaman on very hard? Also, you can't punish their ranged attacks with your own, because they are too slow and the normal arrows don't do damage on block. I would vote for a slight decrease of n4 startup, since it also benefits the loading time.

Agreed. I think with a faster neutral 4 and faster arrow loading times this character would be golden. I havent seen many people do it but theres a hole in GA's d1-4 of choice on block. When your d1 is blocked the opponent can immediately d1 you before your arrow ever comes out if they see you enter the animation. Maybe i'm just chasing a pipedream but the thought of doing this bnb: ji2, 113-df4-4, B3, DD4-4 makes me salivate.

 

[Jimmypotato]

One thing I do is shoot a normal green arrow then load right after that.

This is a huge problem in the aqua man match up though,

Other things I do to load arrows are load them at fucked up times when you really shouldn't, it can throw your opponent off,

like, do F2D1~arrowload, I'll usually be able to D1 Ice arrow right after because they will push a button to try get me but because I did it at a fucked up time they will be late with the punish.

Another thing I do is, if I get a freeze I will load another arrow right away and go into another block string, it's a risk but it helps push them towards the corner. I'm not sure what the frame space between me reloading another arrow and starting another string on them, and them becoming unfrozen is, but I have never been poked out of this. I will have to test if it is possible or not, I think they might have to block this. (I even usually have time to dash forward reload an arrow and go into a string if I'm to far away)

You would be surprised how many times you can get F2D13~LowIce, ReloadIce repeat to work, lol once they start blocking the string you still have your Ice arrow mix up at the end of the F2D13, or you can go for your F2D1~slide shit.

From far away if I have Fire loaded, I'll shoot 2 of them and load Electric because they expect the 3rd fire,

I find with Arrow you just have to be random as hell, and capitalize when you can.

He is a hard work character that requires tons of patients and hard work to win most match ups. I don't think that will change.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Agreed. I think with a faster neutral 4 and faster arrow loading times this character would be golden. I havent seen many people do it but theres a hole in GA's d1-4 of choice on block. When your d1 is blocked the opponent can immediately d1 you before your arrow ever comes out if they see you enter the animation. Maybe i'm just chasing a pipedream but the thought of doing this bnb: ji2, 113-df4-4, B3, DD4-4 makes me salivate.

The dudes I play will interupt my D1~arrow all the time, somecharacters can even hit you out of D1 jump back arrow if they block it.

Another thing to watch out for is the whole cast can MB B3 After blocking the d1 and blow you up, the way to get around it and make them respect your shit is D1~DB2, or anticipate their counter poke and poke them back with that shit.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

One thing I do is shoot a normal green arrow then load right after that.

This is a huge problem in the aqua man match up though,

Other things I do to load arrows are load them at fucked up times when you really shouldn't, it can throw your opponent off,

like, do F2D1~arrowload, I'll usually be able to D1 Ice arrow right after because they will push a button to try get me but because I did it at a fucked up time they will be late with the punish.

Another thing I do is, if I get a freeze I will load another arrow right away and go into another block string, it's a risk but it helps push them towards the corner. I'm not sure what the frame space between me reloading another arrow and starting another string on them, and them becoming unfrozen is, but I have never been poked out of this. I will have to test if it is possible or not, I think they might have to block this. (I even usually have time to dash forward reload an arrow and go into a string if I'm to far away)

You would be surprised how many times you can get F2D13~LowIce, ReloadIce repeat to work, lol once they start blocking the string you still have your Ice arrow mix up at the end of the F2D13, or you can go for your F2D1~slide shit.

From far away if I have Fire loaded, I'll shoot 2 of them and load Electric because they expect the 3rd fire,

I find with Arrow you just have to be random as hell, and capitalize when you can.

He is a hard work character that requires tons of patients and hard work to win most match ups. I don't think that will change.

LMAO I've gotten away with loading an ice arrow after a fully blocked f2d13. I'm just afraid of abusing it and getting punished hard. I'm gonna try to incorporate some of your being random tips/shenanigans LOL I can't believe you get away with all that. I agree that arrow requires what I like to call brain cells, thats why I love this character, especially in a game where the majority of characters that dominate are braindead. I just feel that if his arrow loading times would be faster we would be able to focus a little more on the task at hand. And his combo potential and setups/mindgames afterwards would be alot better.

 

[Jimmypotato]

LMAO I've gotten away with loading an ice arrow after a fully blocked f2d13. I'm just afraid of abusing it and getting punished hard. I'm gonna try to incorporate some of your being random tips/shenanigans LOL I can't believe you get away with all that. I agree that arrow requires what I like to call brain cells, thats why I love this character, especially in a game where the majority of characters that dominate are braindead. I just feel that if his arrow loading times would be faster we would be able to focus a little more on the task at hand. And his combo potential and setups/mindgames afterwards would be alot better.

Gimmy 45% midscreen damage and I would be very happy with this character.

I don't usually get away with to much, once they know how to block your F2D1 shit is when you really gotta do wierd stuff. I do alotta load Arrow jump forward for the arrow shot but not shoot it then dash cancel the arrow. lol I'm all over the damn place with my Arrow.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

Gimmy 45% midscreen damage and I would be very happy with this character.

I don't usually get away with to much, once they know how to block your F2D1 shit is when you really gotta do wierd stuff. I do alotta load Arrow jump forward for the arrow shot but not shoot it then dash cancel the arrow. lol I'm all over the damn place with my Arrow.

LOL Yea. Green Arrow is a pain in the ass if you don't know how to fuzzy guard him but once you get that matchup experience and you get familiar with all his stuff, he becomes "easy money" as Deathstroke would say. He totally ruins people that can't fuzzy guard or counterpoke on reaction though. And 45% damage, me likes. Actually, I think if he were able to load arrows faster, arrow mains would get very creative and we might reach the really low 40's area.

 

[Jimmypotato]

LOL Yea. Green Arrow is a pain in the ass if you don't know how to fuzzy guard him but once you get that matchup experience and you get familiar with all his stuff, he becomes "easy money" as Deathstroke would say. He totally ruins people that can't fuzzy guard or counterpoke on reaction though. And 45% damage, me likes. Actually, I think if he were able to load arrows faster, arrow mains would get very creative and we might reach the really low 40's area.

It just really pisses me off that I can do these crazy fuckin hard midscreen combos and get 30%, or just do a super easy one and get 30%, his difficult stuff is not rewarded at all, and it makes 0 sense.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

It just really pisses me off that I can do these crazy fuckin hard midscreen combos and get 30%, or just do a super easy one and get 30%, his difficult stuff is not rewarded at all, and it makes 0 sense.

Well, on the bright side , if it cam be called that, our character really has no use for meter, similar to bane so we usually have meter for that money shot reset or final blow.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Well, on the bright side , if it cam be called that, our character really has no use for meter, similar to bane so we usually have meter for that money shot reset or final blow.

unless they are really good and I have to push block, been having to alot recently, especially since I still struggle with the wake up system.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

unless they are really good and I have to push block, been having to alot recently, especially since I still struggle with the wake up system.

What wakeup system? LOL Just kidding but yeah, you're not the only one. The window is really tight and quite frankly, I find it dumb and pointless. Not all wakeup attacks are invincible and some are highly punishable, I don't see the thought process that went into making the windows extremely tight and inconsistent. Also, some characters that dont even need invincible wakeups have them and some that despereately need one have squat. Anyway, hopefully more arrow mains will post here about our thoughts. The green arrow forum seems pretty dead.

 

[Jimmypotato]

What wakeup system? LOL Just kidding but yeah, you're not the only one. The window is really tight and quite frankly, I find it dumb and pointless. Not all wakeup attacks are invincible and some are highly punishable, I don't see the thought process that went into making the windows extremely tight and inconsistent. Also, some characters that dont even need invincible wakeups have them and some that despereately need one have squat. Anyway, hopefully more arrow mains will post here about our thoughts. The green arrow forum seems pretty dead.

People don't like to use characters that take work, oh well. hopefully we will fly under the radar soon lol.

 

[Alexandru Pascu]

I know this might seem weird but I main Superman, Nightwing and GA and I have a way easier time with GA against certain match-ups than say Superman. I usually go 2-2 against Harley's with Big Blue and I seem to have at least a 3-1 advantage with Arrow. It's probably cause I'm a lot more cautious when playing Ollie but it's still a wee bit weird. Also that ult reset. Doing 20% damage on the set-up and another 52% on the follow up is huge. Too bad you can pretty much only do it once a match but it probably wouldn't be worth doing more than once.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

I know this might seem weird but I main Superman, Nightwing and GA and I have a way easier time with GA against certain match-ups than say Superman. I usually go 2-2 against Harley's with Big Blue and I seem to have at least a 3-1 advantage with Arrow. It's probably cause I'm a lot more cautious when playing Ollie but it's still a wee bit weird. Also that ult reset. Doing 20% damage on the set-up and another 52% on the follow up is huge. Too bad you can pretty much only do it once a match but it probably wouldn't be worth doing more than once.

So what do you think about having him load/switch arrows faster?

 

[Alexandru Pascu]

It'd be brilliant especially since too much of the cast can punish it way too easy. Black Adam, Killer Frost and Aquaman come to mind but I'm sure there's loads other.

 

[Jimmypotato]

It'd be brilliant especially since too much of the cast can punish it way too easy. Black Adam, Killer Frost and Aquaman come to mind but I'm sure there's loads other.

The biggest problem with this I think, is that the freeze arrow freeze time would have to be shortened if the reload is any faster, and that would really fuck him.

 

[Alexandru Pascu]

The biggest problem with this I think, is that the freeze arrow freeze time would have to be shortened if the reload is any faster, and that would really fuck him.

If it comes down to that I'd much rater keep the freeze time as it is. The only chars you really only have a problem prep-ing an arrow against are good pokers with some sort of instant projectile. And it would only have to be reduced by a small margin. The ideal case would be keeping the freeze time the same and only decreasing the load time slightly. If not leave it like it is. It's not impossible it just takes away from the possibility of shutting zoners down. Which is still doable anyway.

 

[Alexandru Pascu]

If Arrow was lacking in mix-ups and didn't have such a good D1 it would've been a huge problem however.

 

[SimSim]

chasing your opponent down for that ice arrow and a dream

LOL! Best thing I have read today! So fitting for how it is to be a GA player.

I agree that faster load time would balance out GA a little, but it might be overpowered if GA could combo in to ice load and hit from almost all his combos? (Maybe not since ice arrow scales so much)

In matches like Lex, it's so frustrating with the loading time, because you have that ice arrow stocked, and you hold that arrow dear to your heart. It is your ticket to a combo and a set up. You want to land that at all cost! Then he manages to charge armor, and you are like.. well shit.. I should have firearrows now, but I don't want to waste this precious ice arrow that I managed to stock lol. Just the fact that I feel I am wasting the ice arrow if I re load with fire, shows me that the loading time is a pain

 

[GodsLonelyman]

LOL! Best thing I have read today! So fitting for how it is to be a GA player.

I agree that faster load time would balance out GA a little, but it might be overpowered if GA could combo in to ice load and hit from almost all his combos? (Maybe not since ice arrow scales so much)

In matches like Lex, it's so frustrating with the loading time, because you have that ice arrow stocked, and you hold that arrow dear to your heart. It is your ticket to a combo and a set up. You want to land that at all cost! Then he manages to charge armor, and you are like.. well shit.. I should have firearrows now, but I don't want to waste this precious ice arrow that I managed to stock lol. Just the fact that I feel I am wasting the ice arrow if I re load with fire, shows me that the loading time is a pain

The biggest problem with this I think, is that the freeze arrow freeze time would have to be shortened if the reload is any faster, and that would really fuck him.

Yea that matchup is a pain in the neck, the same exact thoughts you posted are what goes through my mind. As for the ice arrows, I don't think they'd be a problem because as you mentioned, they already scale the damage by a large margin. And it is not possible to get a double freeze anyway, the ice arrow hits but doesn't freeze the opponent. it's been tried and it fails. Try this combo : Ice Arrow, B3, Dash, DB1, D2-DB4, 22-Ice Arrow

 

[Roko1985]

Gimmy 45% midscreen damage and I would be very happy with this character.

I don't usually get away with to much, once they know how to block your F2D1 shit is when you really gotta do wierd stuff. I do alotta load Arrow jump forward for the arrow shot but not shoot it then dash cancel the arrow. lol I'm all over the damn place with my Arrow.

Is 85% super not enough? He dos not need meter for his combos, so just save it for the final blow!

 

[Cossner]

Yeah I agree, it takes too long to load an arrow and to shoot it.

Is 85% super not enough? He dos not need meter for his combos, so just save it for the final blow!

More like 45% super, which is what some characters get from 1/2 bars. The super after 111 is not guaranteed and can be escaped by most of the cast.

 

[TimTim]

The biggest problem with this I think, is that the freeze arrow freeze time would have to be shortened if the reload is any faster, and that would really fuck him.

Why would it have to be shortened? You can't double freeze in a combo and if you instead go for electric arrow lets say d1 freeze load electric 113 4 b3 j3 b2 hurricane it would scale It will hit for like 31 max which is amazing for a d1 but sometimes I feel he needs it. He would be a great character but not broken. I see no immediate reasons to shorten freeze length. Maybe because he'd have like meter less Killer Frost resets which I admit, kinda broken.

 

[Roko1985]

Yeah I agree, it takes too long to load an arrow and to shoot it.
More like 45% super, which is what some characters get from 1/2 bars. The super after 111 is not guaranteed and can be escaped by most of the cast.

How?