Match-up Discussion Hawkgirl Matchup Discussion

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

The best thing I've done on Doomsday is straight out rushing and not giving him time to breath and use his trait. MB supernova beats flight even if you try to mc/mb mace toss under and he can catch you from top height from really damn far away with his up burn venom (gamma charge). Imo what you want is to completely shut him down, as DD doesn't have much against your mixups aside from random wakeups you can bait if you predict him well.

What would be the best thing to avoid supernova? Macecharge? I get caught with supernova alot online.

Yes, I would def. have to agree tho. I feel the more aggressive I play in this matchup, the better. If you stay on DD, its much easier to boss this dude.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

K what I found out vs Doomsday, time your forward dash after DD disappears from the top of the screen and you'll avoid the supernova. if you're out of range of the regular version just dash as soon as he's out of the screen. it'll whiff behind you if he does the MB and the regular version will whiff in front of you, both punishable by full combo.
Just be careful if your forward dash will put you in range to his regular one (if you think he'll do the MB one), in this case just do a MB b3 then dash cancel it after you absorb the hit and punish with a full combo.
You can also MC or WE3 if you do them early enough, i think the dash is the best option coz you get a punish but with MC/WE3 you're too far away to do anything after.
d2 also works if you time it right, i dont think its worth the risk though. And you can also super him if you time it around the time he's landing >__>;

I really hate this character but at least this helps in the MU a bit..

 

[-YMK-]

Doomsday, im so fed up with this character, theres a local player who is winning everything with this guy, hes killing the scene.
the amount of reward this guy has when hes in is silly.

Our way to fight the match is to keep him out and poke him down. the only time to be near this guy is when we have him in the corner.

General tips:
-I feel like the meter on either side is gonna be for pushing out(HG) or getting in (DD)
-If hes more than 1/2 screen, hes almost useless. we can throw maces, but be careful or be willing to MB, cause his Venom charge and his fast dash can get him under air MTs quick, and give him access to our squishy parts.
-Venom Tackle, seems like 90% of the time if he does it, theyll MB it. which is +3 on block not +6, still bad for us though as his d1 will win vs anything (maybe) I recommend every time you block a MB Venom, Push block, it pushes him back to a range he doesnt like, the ONLY time not to, is when he has his trait on, which will absorb the push block and leave you at - frames. (which is BULLSHIT)
-d2 is a good attack vs naked jumping splashes, just gotta do it a little early. 3 also can work if your feeling smart (might be easier with this splash nerf)
-his d1 is 7f, and -2 on block, ours is 6f and -2 on block, so whoever gets theirs blocked first has to block, an issue with DDs d1 is that its HUGE, and i feel like a lot of WE2 d1 traps lose. :/
-Earthshaker/Karate Chop is a silly move, allegedly -9 on block, but gets pushed out far when doing it from most strings into to not get punished, but blocking it ends his immediate offense, more so if you push block after blocking the low. so take some solace in that
-As for his Trait, theres not much to say about dealing with it, dont treat it like normal armor, poking him with d1 or d2 isnt a bad idea at times to keep him from going too nuts with it.


Flight problems:
One of the issues that makes this fight tough at a first glance is how he shuts down flying. even flying at an angle where a MT would hit his kness isnt a good place, he can see we're gonna throw a mace and dash forward and be under us. MB it saves us a bit. Upward Veom and his AA throw doesnt help things at those angles either. :/

Help! I blocked and now he's in! WHAT DO?:
Keep calm and mainly block overhead, his main lows are the (MB)Chop and D3. most of his strings are safe if not + on block -_-
and wait for your chance to d1, WE3 out or backthrow, I dont recommend jumping/flying/MC out due to his AA throw/upcharge

Its not all bad though, as our damage definitely out does his even if its not as simple, he has to respect a meaty 3,2 on wakeup, and we can have fun with him when his traits down or hes in the corner.


all in all im just sharing what i know, take it with a grain of salt, as im not expecting to be completely right.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

I think Hawkgirl vs Grundy is 5-5 right now. It will probably end up being 6-4 in her favor. After running a lot of drunk sets with Espio last night I feel like Grundy can hold his own.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

For realz? there's a range you can just chuck maces in and Grundy cant do shit about it. If he jumps you easily fly2 or do air MC to beat him as his air-to-airs are omega slow, if he try to dash to do the armored running grab you you can MB mass toss or just divekick his head when he's done.
Wake-up WE2/3 avoid the grabs and beat all of his shit. You can also WE cancel to fly then chuck straight maces at him and he has to block them and get in again.
If he can read you well and lock you down once he's in its a pain in the ass, getting in though is really tough for him especially if you let him know from the start that he cant just dashdashdash like a retard without eating an MC/MT/WE3 to the face.

Idk, personally i think this is in her favor alot, I've played like 20 grundys and only lost 1 match, and that match was to a guy that I kept running to like 4 times in a row and he won the last one coz he started making better reads and locked me down. Granted online randoms arent exactly "da bes grundy experience you can get" but I have no choice in the matter as no locals play the guy.

 

[4x4lo8o]

What do you guys think of the Batman and Ares match ups?

Yesterday at Vindication I accidentally played my Hawkgirl against Daddy Dab's Batman and it didn't go quite as badly as I thought it would. Not well enough to stop me from counter picking the next match, though.

I also absolutely wrecked a Hawkgirl with my Ares during the tournament. I don't think the guy was doing her justice, but Ares axe can take her out of the air really effectively and his jumping attacks have pretty solid range. I could see it being a rough match for her

 

[Shin Oni]

What's everyone's take on hawkgirl against The Flash?

Curious because it seems like a race to the corner to start the silly corner pressure.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Flash is definitely in HG's favor. He has to play your game and come to you. on the ground you can just throw maces and if you know he'll do that stupid twerk move that goes through projectiles MB it and the charge will hit him. I think you can do it on reaction too, you can do that for air maces as well if u see him try to go through them.

WE3 will beat his running move followups, you can also just WE then 3 on reaction to him moving, if not cancel to flight and chuck maces. And its one of the few matchups where I actually get to use 1 as a combo starter lol (from blocked/whiffed uppercuts).


Ares is a pain in the ass, stay on top of him and pressure as he's pretty stubby there and i feel HG has the edge in that range
Flight isnt that useful against him coz the stupid Axe has a very huge vertical hitbox so it'll hit you more often than not if you're flying around. If you're max height idk for sure but i think it'll still clip your legs. I've done air MCs and it avoided it but idk if thats reliable or i just got lucky.
Teleports also shut your air stuff, throw a predictable mace and he'll teleport into a full combo. however if you're just flying you can footdive his teleport if you're waiting for it.
I wanna say it CAN be a 5-5 if you play it right, just dont try to do the regular "stay in the top corner and chuck shit at them" approach.


Batman will probably end up in his favor coz of pressure with bats and HG cant really handle that. He cant touch you if you're in top corner except with the bats, which are pretty slow and have pretty shitty tracking, you can easily just hover down a bit to avoid them, just watch out for the straight grapple as they'll try to get you to hover low enough to get snatched, it'll also combo if the bats hit you. However there is a height where you can avoid both the bats and the grapple. This is speaking fullscreen batman vs max height airborne Hawkgirl, if its any closer its harder to avoid both and sometimes its not possible and he also has the upwards grapple.
Not to mention has the parry which helps against hawkgirl's pressure. Yeah I can see this getting ugly after the metagame develops.

 

[Btt Ownge Mble]

Played a DS a fair bit last night. He can hit HG from anywhere on screen with air GS despite what others have said. MC is too slow to punish a whiffed air GS. Her approach (which she generally has to do) is hampered because the range on her normals is arse (except d1 and you aren't getting a lot of damage off that). Her jump is so slow DS can air GS/sword flip it on reaction. Any time you miss a mace throw, he gets a free punish. Her saving grace in this MU is d2 because it beats DS j3 when timed early.

Too early to call because I'm still a huge HG scrub (I don't even combo after d2) but I'd be surprised if it's easy for HG.

I'm still working on the DS matchup, I think it's like 5-5. The big thing I found is if he catches you in the air with an air gun you get pushed right back to full screen, where he wants you. You have to slowly creep up with dashes. I believe you can dash in between high guns, but be careful about dashing in after he does low guns, as low guns then high guns will catch dashers.

When you get to about mid screen, try to predict when he's going to throw out one of his ground guns. It's a risk, but you have to jump over the gun and then do an air mace MB to get on him.

From there, do your best not to let him get away... he's probably going to start back dashing like crazy... you can either try to catch him with a MC on his back dash or WE3 to catch up to him. Try to bait out the sword flip.

Now the sword flip deserves it's own paragraph... if you are ducking I've noticed that sometimes he crosses you up and you will be hit by it even if you're ducking (believe me on this one.. the move is not an overhead but if you're ducking at close enough ranges it becomes an overhead). Duck blocking it gives you less push back tho (mid screen), so try to duck the initial hit and then switch to standing block. It's -21 on block I believe so my go to punish combo is 123, f3, 123xxMC (MB will whiff, don't bother) That does 30%. Alternatively, you can do 123, F3, D3 to do an untechable knockdown and keep him close to you, which is probably more beneficial. If you know he's too far away just go for f11xxxWE3, it's like 17% but it's the best you can get.

Once you're in, go to to town... WE3, instant d3's, b22, b23, 22xxWE3... I like to mix those all in, but be mindful of the panic sword flip. If you can bait it tho you get another 30% or 24% untechable knockdown. Good luck.


PS. I would really like to find a good GL on this site to practice against... Lantern's might (his grab) own's WE pressure

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

DS' aint that bad. He's annoying but not terrible. You can dash after blocking ANY of the gunshots.
just tested it right now, low guns to high is only a frametrap on characters with shitty dashes (GL, Lex). With Hawky you can block dash crouchblock dash crouchblock all guns in any order.

Up-close its def in your favor. you can bully him with d1 all day, mix in some d3's and WE mixups with a mace toss MB to get right back in his face if he's just blocking or trying to back away slowly. 3 will also beat alot of his stuff, mainly just keep an eye out for swordflip. You can punish it with 123 if you block all 3 hits, if only 2 hits are blocked he'll be too far away for the 1 to hit, so go for f11~4 move downforward slightly 12 xx MC for 28% damage, or 34% if you MB the Mace charge.

the swordspin move is weird, if you're really close you cant punish, but if there's some space it seems it does less blockstun or something and you can punish with d1 into combo.

Just so you know, if you throw a forward Mace and you trade with his air GS (or stuff him out of it) you get 7% where he gets 6%, its not that big but its a trade in your favor. You can keep hovering in different heights to get him to miss the air GS (Eg: you stay high then hover low for a bit so he'll try to do the air GS at max height giving you time to get 2 dashes in and maybe an MC, same works with staying low then going higher to make them whiff and you can fly forward and throw a downwards mace).

Personally if im not in a range where i can MC or WE3 I'll fly at a height thats just above the high guns range and chuck a straight mace or two and land, dont stay in the air too long unless you wanna get clipped lol.



Also try to not throw out b23 alot, its like -15 on block. mid-screen there's no other option but in the corner if you want to mix it up do b22 xx WE2, or B2 xx WE2 as a high/low mixup as you end up with +5 if they block as opposed to being mad punishable.

 

[Espio]

I think Hawkgirl beats Flash, but I have limited experience in the match up thus far I'd like to get more, but I almost never see Flash players.

 

[RunwayMafia]

I'm still working on the DS matchup, I think it's like 5-5. The big thing I found is if he catches you in the air with an air gun you get pushed right back to full screen, where he wants you. You have to slowly creep up with dashes. I believe you can dash in between high guns, but be careful about dashing in after he does low guns, as low guns then high guns will catch dashers.

When you get to about mid screen, try to predict when he's going to throw out one of his ground guns. It's a risk, but you have to jump over the gun and then do an air mace MB to get on him.

From there, do your best not to let him get away... he's probably going to start back dashing like crazy... you can either try to catch him with a MC on his back dash or WE3 to catch up to him. Try to bait out the sword flip.

Now the sword flip deserves it's own paragraph... if you are ducking I've noticed that sometimes he crosses you up and you will be hit by it even if you're ducking (believe me on this one.. the move is not an overhead but if you're ducking at close enough ranges it becomes an overhead). Duck blocking it gives you less push back tho (mid screen), so try to duck the initial hit and then switch to standing block. It's -21 on block I believe so my go to punish combo is 123, f3, 123xxMC (MB will whiff, don't bother) That does 30%. Alternatively, you can do 123, F3, D3 to do an untechable knockdown and keep him close to you, which is probably more beneficial. If you know he's too far away just go for f11xxxWE3, it's like 17% but it's the best you can get.

Once you're in, go to to town... WE3, instant d3's, b22, b23, 22xxWE3... I like to mix those all in, but be mindful of the panic sword flip. If you can bait it tho you get another 30% or 24% untechable knockdown. Good luck.


PS. I would really like to find a good GL on this site to practice against... Lantern's might (his grab) own's WE pressure

I have found Mace Toss cancel to be essential against good DS's who start taking you out of the air...its a great bait tool!

 

[Btt Ownge Mble]

I have found Mace Toss cancel to be essential against good DS's who start taking you out of the air...its a great bait tool!

Huh? Are you saying you can mace toss cancel in the air? I didn't know that.... mind blown!

Or if you mean grounded MT cancel DS is just going to low guns all day cause he don't give a shit... plus on the off chance you do throw the mace on the ground he can just MB his gunshots so he ducks the mace longer while pelting you with lead.

 

[Boodendorf]

Huh? Are you saying you can mace toss cancel in the air? I didn't know that.... mind blown!

Or if you mean grounded MT cancel DS is just going to low guns all day cause he don't give a shit... plus on the off chance you do throw the mace on the ground he can just MB his gunshots so he ducks the mace longer while pelting you with lead.

You can't cancel air mace toss, I'm not sure what Runway exactly meant.
Btw we3 beats wake up sword flip, we2 beats it in the corner. You can completely avoid and punish wake up sword spin by flying right above the sword's hitbox, then going slightly down and doing (flight) 12 mc into 42% combo lol.

 

[Boodendorf]

Been fighting my fair share of good GAs these days, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. Still in GA's advantage though.

Important things to note:
-Every single arrow can be dodged at full screen, by being at top height and using mace charge.
-You can easily react to ice arrow from full screen.
-Nearly every super reset setup is avoidable thanks to mace charge, timing is pretty tight but still possible.
-Pushblock is your friend against GA's mixups.
-Mace charge eats his wakeups for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
-If possible and if you got enough health lead, try to empty GA's super meter during his own clash, by faking you putting all of your meter on the line (press MB button twice to fake wager).
-IT'S LIKE NAVIGATING IN A SHOOT EM UP SO FUN!

Can't put footage though, sorry, the GAs I fought didn't want to be on youtube .

 

[MKF30]

AAgainst ds i agree just stay on him nd outzone him its very ppssible. I dont fear ds because i know whats coming. Supes however imo is 50/50 if you can rush him down fine but if he gets far his heat vision has the edge and its just a pain to get in.
I think dd gives everyone trouble the key is to stay on top of him. And poke him up close dont give him a chance to do anything
I

 

[Shin Oni]

Flash is definitely in HG's favor. He has to play your game and come to you. on the ground you can just throw maces and if you know he'll do that stupid twerk move that goes through projectiles MB it and the charge will hit him. I think you can do it on reaction too, you can do that for air maces as well if u see him try to go through them.

WE3 will beat his running move followups, you can also just WE then 3 on reaction to him moving, if not cancel to flight and chuck maces. And its one of the few matchups where I actually get to use 1 as a combo starter lol (from blocked/whiffed uppercuts).

I think Hawkgirl beats Flash, but I have limited experience in the match up thus far I'd like to get more, but I almost never see Flash players.

I dunno I feel like it's a "first to the corner" match. Flash starts his nonsense off f+2 and hawkgirl can basically trap Flash in the corner with f+1,3 pressure where all he can do is pushblock/super/armor out. You can duck the high string after f+2 but that's the high/low mixups with f+2. You do get a free punish off a block lighting charge and Flash basically can't do wakeup charge/punch with the wing evade oki. (which also leads to a free WE2 punish on both.) and i've actually had lighting punch go through HG with WE and backdash. :/

but this is just my thoughts. I play a pretty decent flash online twice (same guy) and there's a really good flash player in our area and it just seems flash doesn't give a shit about what HG does unless she's got him pinned in the corner.

 

[Btt Ownge Mble]

Also try to not throw out b23 alot, its like -15 on block. mid-screen there's no other option but in the corner if you want to mix it up do b22 xx WE2, or B2 xx WE2 as a high/low mixup as you end up with +5 if they block as opposed to being mad punishable.

Eternal Blaze

I just went into training mode. Flash's uppercut can't punish, Superman's Crush can.... so it's between -2 and -5.... we already know that the frame data on the MC is wrong, seeing as how it's safe on block and not -55... I'm pretty sure all of her strings have incorrect information in the options screen.

For those who are interested, I tested a few strings vs superman's super... 22 and 32 are definitely safe on block.

 

[Espio]

Zyphox what do you think of Hawkgirl versus Flash? You play both and we played quite a few games some time ago,thoughts?

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Eternal Blaze

I just went into training mode. Flash's uppercut can't punish, Superman's Crush can.... so it's between -2 and -5.... we already know that the frame data on the MC is wrong, seeing as how it's safe on block and not -55... I'm pretty sure all of her strings have incorrect information in the options screen.

For those who are interested, I tested a few strings vs superman's super... 22 and 32 are definitely safe on block.

Fuckin NRS... Thats good to know then, I've been scared shit-less of using it coz -15 means it'll be punishable by everything lol.

 

[Boodendorf]

Fuckin NRS... Thats good to know then, I've been scared shit-less of using it coz -15 means it'll be punishable by everything lol.

You shouldn't use b23 anyway, it's easy to react to and it's hard to combo after.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

You shouldn't use b23 anyway, it's easy to react to and it's hard to combo after.

Meh, occasionally it can be useful. Its not exactly a go-to string but its another overhead in her arsenal so why not?

 

[Shin Oni]

it's good to throw out on some character's wakeup after you've trained them to respect d+1. Then you can start tossing in b23 and b22 mixups.

 

[Zyphox]

Zyphox what do you think of Hawkgirl versus Flash? You play both and we played quite a few games some time ago,thoughts?

it's probably in favor of hawkgirl, because the flash can't pressure her off wake up, and she can lame the flash out in the air if done correctly, probably 5.5-4.5, but maybe in the future we find anti HG tech for the flash. she also gets out of an oki set ups mind screen with untechable knockdown and sonic pound, she can just wing evade for free and punish if he attempt it. the same set up makes the flash versus sinestro a 7-3 in the flash's favor so........ yeah.

 

[Boodendorf]

Next opponent is a good Cyborg, tips please?