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Stop overrating MK9's Balance, Injustice is better

Which game do you think is more balanced?


  • Total voters
    280

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Not sure if this is an attempt at taking a shot but maybe you should read the whole convo.
Not a direct shot, just pointing out how idiotic it is to bring up your educational background on a public forum and use it to back your hypothetical arguments.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
The reason it's a bad idea to use Tekken as an example, aside from the obvious similarity in tools and approaches between characters, is that that engine (and the cast) has been in a long iteration for 20 years. Some of these characters and their movesets go back before some of you were born.

I don't know why anyone would compare it to a brand new IP.
I'm making an observation that tekken is balanced based on the core mechanics that every character can use, then compare that to Injustice, where there are multiple core mechanics that everybody can use to somewhat make it more balanced.

Doesn't matter that its a 20+ year franchise, so is MK, and if they really wanted to balance the game, they could've taken notes on fundamental gameplay mechanics and how they affect all of the bullshit in the game, as Namco had done. 2D/3D, doesnt matter, just make sure that the ground rules for defence are universal for all characters.

The core defense mechanics in MK9 were too limited and too variable to make it a balanced game.
 

dookieagain

Last Bastion of Arcades
You know people keep saying how 8-2s and 7-3s are fine and how low tiers are cool and how balance makes a game boring.



This is two back to back FT5s between the same two players.(Daigo and F. Champ)

The first is a 5.5-4.5 between Dhalsim and Ryu.

The second is a 7.5-2.5 between Yun and Dhalsim.

The first goes back and forth and takes 21 minutes. The second doesn't.

Notice how. . . hype . . . the crowd and commentators are during the second set.

Now you don't see a lot of these matchups on stream. . . because a good player will always abandon a character, no matter how much they like them, rather than fight this kind of matchup.

Oh except Vangief.

 

NickDaGreek1983

Oh, my days !
Mr. REO...
A) Wait until Injustice gets its last patch and then the community can make its critique.
B) As of now, Superman IS Kabal (tournament placing-wise).
C) Who, I repeat WHO and with WHICH criteria makes/suggests the buffs/nerfs ? Is it just the NetherRealm Studios' team?
D) Injustice hasn't been discovered in depth yet to have a clear view on its negatives.

Patience...
 

CamChattic

Eternal Champion of Justice
You can't really talk About balance or tiers until people have plateaued and are playing matches on an equal playing field there's no way that the skill cap has gotten that high in a month for competent discussion to be had on the subject.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I'm making an observation that tekken is balanced based on the core mechanics that every character can use, then compare that to Injustice, where there are multiple core mechanics that everybody can use to somewhat make it more balanced.

Doesn't matter that its a 20+ year franchise, so is MK, and if they really wanted to balance the game, they could've taken notes on fundamental gameplay mechanics and how they affect all of the bullshit in the game, as Namco had done. 2D/3D, doesnt matter, just make sure that the ground rules for defence are universal for all characters.
There's some truth in that, but I'm inclined to side with MIT; when you have projectiles, hitting at all kinds of different levels and with different properties, stuff you can throw at people, air dashes, teleports, lifts/trap moves, a few types of armor, all kinds of different traits, sheild-type moves, and vastly different play styles, etc., there are totally different kinds of considerations than Tekken is dealing with, and that's why I don't think it's a great comparison for balancing a game.

Even if IGAU was 3d, if it had all those things it'd still be totally a different ballgame.

It's really Apples and Oranges in this case -- and like I said, Tekken has had roughly the same ground rules for a while, yet has gone through a couple periods where it was still very unbalanced with regards to specific characters; so if it was just the ground rules that supposedly fix the balance, that wouldn't have happened.

It took Tekken some time to work through those issues, and likewise it will take Injustice some time to work through its own.
 

Raging Ghost

Common sense > anything
Then why don't you all start using common sense and ban Kabal and Cyborg from tournaments? Usually, when characters have a tier for themselves, we ban them, right?
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
Then why don't you all start using common sense and ban Kabal and Cyborg from tournaments? Usually, when characters have a tier for themselves, we ban them, right?
Not everyone could win majors with Kabal...it was only one person doing it consistenly with a few other Kabal players taking a few majors here and there.

Cyborg???
biglebowskisrsly.jpg

TOO SOON.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
There's some truth in that, but I'm inclined to side with MIT; when you have projectiles, hitting at all kinds of different levels and with different properties, stuff you can throw at people, air dashes, teleports, lifts/trap moves, a few types of armor, all kinds of different traits, sheild-type moves, and vastly different play styles, etc., there are totally different kinds of considerations than Tekken is dealing with, and that's why I don't think it's a great comparison for balancing a game.

Even if IGAU was 3d, if it had all those things it'd still be totally a different ballgame.

It's really Apples and Oranges in this case -- and like I said, Tekken has had roughly the same ground rules for a while, yet has gone through a couple periods where it was still very unbalanced with regards to specific characters; so if it was just the ground rules that supposedly fix the balance, that wouldn't have happened.

It took Tekken some time to work through those issues, and likewise it will take Injustice some time to work through its own.
Thats still not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the dramatic increase in accessible defence and offense between MK9 and Injustice, where in MK you could usually beat out most of these options with mere frame advantage, in Injustice if one option doesnt work, there will probably be 1 or more others that will, since frame advantage in this game doesn't usually gaurantee you an option, it just opens up others. That ALSO applies to Tekken, the 3D or 2D environment theyre played on doesn't matter for what I'm trying to say.

Anyway, there are no projectile characters in Injustice that you cant defend against or counter using the universal defence mechanics in the game. (Other than Cyborgs infinite)

Then why don't you all start using common sense and ban Kabal and Cyborg from tournaments? Usually, when characters have a tier for themselves, we ban them, right?
We're a very confused community, and a young one too, the characters we bitch about have been beaten at some points. Usually though, there are only like 1 or 2 players that play the OP characters properly, if we had a larger community of dedicated players, we'd have more bullshit floating about and more reason to ban those characters.

Our community likes to flock to the most simple OP characters to play though. (Cage, Sonya, Lao, Cyrax, Kenshi, Superman, Batman, Aquaman)
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
If Tom Brady (that's his name, right?) said that Cyborg is S tier because of his blockstun infinite, among many things...
The difference is that there's going to be updates in the future and they're taking the block infinite out so it won't be around forever.
 

AU_IM_DIGIMON

Kombatant
No

Tbh i hope they get rid of JF moves altogether
Hell nah...

Crimson/Foxy: I feel MK9 plays a ton more like Tekken Tag 2, than compared to Injustice. MK is very offensive/momentum (both games have strong safe block strings/frame traps & pokes. and characters have tons of options for fluid movement/evasion) heavy where you can be rewarded for making good reads after a knock down (though I do wish more pressure/momentum was guaranteed ;) ). While there are some defensive options...within a characters moveset, that are just enough to be able to keep that playstyle if played well...and if you choose to.

My favorite thing about MK, besides from Sheeva, is that any character in the game can be played how you want them to. ^__^
 

CamChattic

Eternal Champion of Justice
Hell nah...
Things balanced around execution are dumb. Take ewgf for example once you know what it is there's absolutely no reason to implement wgf in your strategy at all they basically put a useless move in the meta game well a whole set of useless moves since there's almost no reason to ever willingly do the non JF version of a move. It doesn't promote any certain style of play hell it doesn't even promote playing against opponents it just promotes spending a shitton of time in training mode.
 

AU_IM_DIGIMON

Kombatant
Things balanced around execution are dumb. Take ewgf for example once you know what it is there's absolutely no reason to implement wgf in your strategy at all they basically put a useless move in the meta game well a whole set of useless moves since there's almost no reason to ever willingly do the non JF version of a move. It doesn't promote any certain style of play hell it doesn't even promote playing against opponents it just promotes spending a shitton of time in training mode.
just frames are exactly that for a reason: because the moves are strong and/or have a means of good follow up attack or properties. they're not meant to just be thrown out effortlessly/carelessly. i don't think THERE'S ENOUGH just frames in fighting games. i see nothing wrong with being rewarded in fighting games for having exceptional execution (that you deserve through practicing) when it matters imo.

wgf isn't useless if you like playing mishimas but can't fire out ewgf on a whim. or if you're whiff punishing something that has tons of recovery and you want to lazy mode launcher.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Things balanced around execution are dumb. Take ewgf for example once you know what it is there's absolutely no reason to implement wgf in your strategy at all they basically put a useless move in the meta game well a whole set of useless moves since there's almost no reason to ever willingly do the non JF version of a move. It doesn't promote any certain style of play hell it doesn't even promote playing against opponents it just promotes spending a shitton of time in training mode.
Yeah! Fuck having to practice to be good at something! :p

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