Stop overrating MK9's Balance, Injustice is better

[GNG Iniquity]

Half the cast in SCV was viable.

Having a just guard mechanic makes anyone viable. There's no Kenshi vs Sub Zero 9/1 MU in that game. On a related subject, I'm going to start playing SCV again.

 

[haketh]

SCV is dope, wish the scene wasa bit stronger.

IGAU is doing baller right now with people entering and hype from people not normally in the scene, but most games that come out do before the community goes back to SF and UMVC3.

 

[Mikman360]

Meh, idk if I (or anyone) can make a fair judgement yet.

If you asked people if MK9 was balanced in its first month, people would say yes.
IF you ask us this question about Injustice, we'd still say yes.

Come 2013, everyone thinks MK9 is a Kabal only Final Destination game.
Who's to say thats not possible for this game?

 

[Dulllyanna]

TTT2 is more balanced than many FGs because 1: the cast in general is pretty homogenous when you strip away the fluff (It then comes down to whose movement, damage and mid/low pokes are strongest), and 2: every character can do high damage. Also yeah, there's definitely counterpicking in TTT2, i.e. nobody wants to be stuck having to deal with capos using a character/s that's bad against them. Even so I can safely say that yeah, the worst characters in TTT2 are amazing compared to the likes of OG MK9 Sheeva. VF's universal system is strong and most characters are well designed, but even though the bottom tier characters like Eileen are "usable" you aren't going to see them beat a competent Taka without great difficulty.

Regardless, a lot of people don't see or agree with this but imho character balance across the board is overrated compared to how the better characters in the game operate. Games like KoF98 and MvC2 have a lot of shitty or mediocre characters that really aren't worth using, but they're still good games that have had an exceptionally long life in the regions they're played at because the best characters are deep, well designed (Whether intentionally or not isn't relevant) and foment good gameplay and player interaction in general. Yeah Storm and Sent shit on a ton of characters in a way that's really ugly, but the way they play against each other and the other top tier characters is still interesting, deep, and rewarding to smart players.

But on the topic of overall balance, I can't really comment on MK9 in its current state since I last played it before Kano was made irrelevant lol, and all I know is that Kenshi and Kabal replaced him and every other zoner/pseudo zoner. I can say that comparing Injustice to MK9 at this early point in each game's life, it should be obvious how much stronger the low tier is. Baraka or Sheeva players would've killed for a + on block low launcher and a command throw game that doesn't rely on a shitty unsafe high/low guess on their part. Yeah Bane is still obviously lacking, but it's clear that NRS is making progress with their design choices.

 

[ghostwriteous]

I dont get it. If Kabal is so broken why isn't he banned? Couldnt doing such technically "save" MK9?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

i'm not too sure about that, if I played tekken, then i'd really know, can't just take it from what some1 says, i'd have to experience it. Also, as trash as sheeva/raka/cyber sub are and etc., those chars have seen some top 16s and top 8s......, so I dnt think it is even close to valid to say TTT2 low tier chars more viable, bcuz like I just said, I have almost beat/beat top players with scorpion, and we all know he is trash haha.

The low tiers are more viable in Tekken though. Have you ever seen a Sheeva in a grand final @ a major? Cause I've seen bear players in Tekken make it to GF, Kazama players too, Baeks, Jacks, Capos and so on. In fact, I see more low tiers further through tournaments than high tiers.

Tekken is infinitely more balanced than MK9 just because of its core mechanics. Anybody that tries to argue otherwise has probably never played it (i.e. you).

People say that players run to Lars/Mishimas etc etc, but the difference between them and a character like Jun isn't so drastic compared to Kabal -> Sheeva. Every character in Tekken has to play by the fundamental rules of the game, thats not the case in MK9 for KL, Kabal and Kenshi at the least.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The reason it's a bad idea to use Tekken as an example, aside from the obvious similarity in tools and approaches between characters, is that that engine (and the cast) has been in a long iteration for 20 years. Some of these characters and their movesets go back before some of you were born.

I don't know why anyone would compare it to a brand new IP.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

preach haha, every game has counterpicking involved, that's just how fighting games are nowadays, not many will just play one character.

yeah but the people in Tekken are simply "counter picking" characters who can move..... or have a lot less risk vs the reward.

I doubt there is a character in tekken that just completely shuts another character down. The game design really doesn't allow it.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The reason it's a bad idea to use Tekken as an example, aside from the obvious similarity in tools and approaches between characters, is that that engine (and the cast) has been in a long iteration for 20 years. Some of these characters and their movesets go back before some of you were born.

I don't know why anyone would compare it to a brand new IP.

dude...
you have to learn from history.

The core mechanics of that game keep it balanced........ that is the point he is trying to make.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

dude...
you have to learn from history.

The core mechanics of that game keep it balanced........ that is the point he is trying to make.

That's not true at all. I started playing Tekken at Tekken 1.. It went through various phases of balance, including one point in the franchise where a single character handily dominated competitive play of the game.

The real reason TTT2 is balanced is because this game started much like it is now, as a 3d fighter with some of the same characters, and has continued to use its general set of operating rules (and even some of the same animations) for years.

If Injustice was created in 1994 and stayed largely the same, it would be hella balanced by now too.

 

[Issen]

That's not true at all. I started playing Tekken at Tekken 1.. It went through various phases of balance, including one point in the franchise where a single character handily dominated competitive play of the game.

The real reason TTT2 is balanced is because this game started much like it is now, as a 3d fighter with some of the same characters, and has continued to use its general set of operating rules (and even some of the same animations) for years.

If Injustice was created in 1994 and stayed largely the same, it would be hella balanced by now too.

We don't talk about JFLS.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

We don't talk about JFLS.

LOL

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

That's not true at all. I started playing Tekken at Tekken 1.. It went through various phases of balance, including one point in the franchise where a single character handily dominated competitive play of the game.

The real reason TTT2 is balanced is because this game started much like it is now, as a 3d fighter with some of the same characters, and has continued to use its general set of operating rules (and even some of the same animations) for years.

If Injustice was created in 1994 it would be hella balanced by now too. Why does anyone even bother to make that comparison?

yeah... again you're makign my point

You have to compare a balanced game with unbalanced..... and learn from what they've done.

You don't just throw darts at a board.

 

[DreadzTsung]

Wtf? Injustice is way more balanced. Whoever said mk9 is more balanced than injustice is an idiot and should be executed immediately for severe stupidity.

 

[CamChattic]

We don't talk about JFLS.

I want it back

on another note not to cause a shitstorm but it basically sounds from what i'm reading in this thread is that theres potential to ban Kabal and Kenshi There's no rumor/ whisper of a new mk9 coming out and as hot as IGAU is im sure no one wants MK to die out Honestly a swift ban could probably open up the meta and breathe new life into the game. 2 years IMO is long enough to see that something as busted as 2 characters with matority 9-1/8-2/7-3 matchups is stifling the game. Or you guys could be like the Smash community and wait 6 years to ban Metaknight. #kappaface

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

yeah but the people in Tekken are simply "counter picking" characters who can move..... or have a lot less risk vs the reward.

I doubt there is a character in tekken that just completely shuts another character down. The game design really doesn't allow it.

well lets keep it real man, there aren't like a lot of projectiles to use nor are there special moves in general, 3d games are always like this bcuz all you have to do is fight usually and etc. Now make it 2d with the stuff games like sf and mk have, it'd be the same result, the only thing that keeps it from being that is it is a 3d fighting game, so really you can't compare it to mk bcuz they are played in two different dimensionals (2d/3d).

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

The low tiers are more viable in Tekken though. Have you ever seen a Sheeva in a grand final @ a major? Cause I've seen bear players in Tekken make it to GF, Kazama players too, Baeks, Jacks and so on.

Tekken is infinitely more balanced than MK9 just because of its core mechanics. Anybody that tries to argue otherwise has probably never played it (i.e. you).

People say that players run to Lars/Mishimas etc etc, but the difference between them and a character like Jun isn't so drastic compared to Kabal -> Sheeva. Every character in Tekken has to play by the fundamental rules of the game, thats not the case in MK9 for KL, Kabal and Kenshi at the least.

it's a 3d game tho.................., make it anything like a 2d game and give chars special moves and automatically it is on the same boat. The comparison you are making is obsolete bcuz mk is 2d and tekken is 3d. Also special moves have never dominated how tekken is played. And more than just a few chars have made grand finals/won it in mk (sub,sektor, sonya, kl,kabal, kenshi, jax, smoke, etc.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

There isn't a character in this game I couldn't see one day winning a tournament. Not yet.

Even if only once, or by sheer thunderous godlike luck, or a christmas surprise like when DetroitBalln taught the entire world why you don't fuck with Shang Tsung 'cause he's a baaaaaaaaad man at NEC '11...any of them could do it.

A Bane player could be overwhelmingly on point with his venom.
A Shazam player could his command loop resets of boyish wonder on the money all weekend.
Insert Superman F23 Breath MB joke here. You get the point.
There are no Kano's anymore. No Sheevas. Not yet, anyway. Maybe not ever.
let's see whre the next 3 balances take us.


And now, a poem:

Injustice is a wicked vice,
But balanced as the rule of thrice,
So why should I keep feigning nice?
When I could just be...

...nauuuuughty.

 

[Issen]

I want it back

Sit in the corner and think about what you just said.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

it's a 3d game tho.................., make it anything like a 2d game and give chars special moves and automatically it is on the same boat. The comparison you are making is obsolete bcuz mk is 2d and tekken is 3d. Also special moves have never dominated how tekken is played. And more than just a few chars have made grand finals/won it in mk (sub,sektor, sonya, kl,kabal, kenshi, jax, smoke, etc.

I'm gonna chalk most of this up to not playing alot of tekken..... they're "special" moves just look like normals.

In any case..... saying the 3d/2d thing is relevant... but still a cop out.

What makes Tekken balanced? Movement and the fact that every character has tools to deal with all other characters. Some only have 1..... but that 1 is enough.

Injustice is so close to this, yet so far away. Right now... characters just can not deal with certain aspects of other characters.

edit: I do appreciate the actual discussion on this Rather than the typical "You suck scrub... " that I typically get.

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

I still have yet to see a legitimate answer on why they chose MK over Injustice.

I honestly don't know (nor care) if Injustice ultimately is, or will be, more "balance" than MK9 is. I choose MK9 because I definitely have a ton more fun playing it. I feel MK9's universal system mechanics are more "balance AND FUN" than what I seen/played in Injustice.

Character balance in MK9 is surely another story. It kind of has that ST/3rd strike effect imo: where the high tiers usually almost dominate. But exceptional players CAN WIN with shitty characters...BECAUSE THE SYSTEM MECHANICS ALLOW IT (especially if the player is naturally smarter and has really good execution).

I just don't see that in Injustice. Movement is very limited and stiff. Kind of "turn based" really, now that I think about it. Defensive options are a bit too strong imo and uneventful (I mean throwing interactables and knocking players from one part of a stage to another is nice...but after that the game is really stale imo ). It's like once an opponent has the life lead and they choose to keep you out. YOU WILL BE KEPT OUT AND ULTIMATELY LOSE LOL. <------------- I'm thinking of that with strong players playing their characters at highest potential. Ughh...just thinking about it makes me salty lol.

Yeah, Injustice is just not my cup of tea. And I doubt any balance patch would change that. Because the system mechanics are set in stone.

Off topic:

Counter picking in Tekken Tag 2 RARELY HAPPENS. It IS one of the most balanced fighting games out there. But we need to remember that it's been though a ton of revisions since the initial arcade release. All everyone received on consoles was the "FINAL" patched version. Patched once (A.O wall infinite and Kuni ducking mids fix), then made perfect. In Tekken you NEVER LOSE to stronger characters than your own, you lose to the player being smarter/more knowledgeable about the MU/game...than you are.

SCV Raph (and Aeon, who is worse ) is like MK9 Sheeva lol. But exceptional players, CAN WIN/CAN PLACE with them. Leixia is fine.

 

[Hellbringer]

Why do fightinggames have to be perfectly balanced? Its awesome to see a lower tier character get top 8 or further.

 

[SLy]

Why do fightinggames have to be perfectly balanced? Its awesome to see a lower tier character get top 8 or further.

I don't think no one is looking for a game to be perfectly balanced which in my opinion is impossible.

 

[TakeAChance]

Unfortunately for you, I'm a psychology major.

Nah.

So am I, also got a teaching degree.

Your opinions are now invalid. Match my intellect on this forum before you speak peasant.

 

[Qwark28]

So am I, also got a teaching degree.

Your opinions are now invalid. Match my intellect on this forum before you speak peasant.

Not sure if this is an attempt at taking a shot but maybe you should read the whole convo.