Should dominant characters get nerfed? Or should the other characters get buffed to match them?

[DuskAlloy]

Shallow and pedantic.

Honestly I'd rather it be cancelable in the way his f.2 is, where we can dash cancel the start-up.
The parry potential alone coming from that would make it more than worth it.

But still, a form of cancelling from charge is a buff he really needs right?

 

[RYX]

Superman- Yes, Green Lantern- Dunno KF- Dunno Doomsday- has he placed well in tournies? Deathstroke- I dont believe his is dominating

DS is one of the best characters in the game, easily.

And yes, Doomsday has placed well.

 

[DuskAlloy]

He is, its just for every good DS, there is a layer of scrubs 50 players thick.

But the same could be said for a lot of characters

 

[Doombawkz]

But still, a form of cancelling from charge is a buff he really needs right?

In the way that Waluigi numbah one, yes. I suppose so.

 

[RYX]

Shallow and pedantic.

Honestly I'd rather it be cancelable in the way his f.2 is, where we can dash cancel the start-up.
The parry potential alone coming from that would make it more than worth it.

Then you can just f.2. :v Slap some armor on that shit and you can f.2.down command grab and jerk it while you crack backs

 

[DuskAlloy]

DS is one of the best characters in the game, easily.

And yes, Doomsday has placed well.

I
I never siad he wouldnt be good, but what I mean is that he wont be the go to character to watch out for at high level imo

 

[ApertureBlack]

But the same could be said for a lot of characters

It went from:
"OMG cheapness zoner spam online scrubs"
"Oh, If I play patient, I can dash in and punish"
"Wait...why are his moves so safe at close?"

Most casuals consider him broken, mostly due to online, and the comp scene has shown that he has a very very formidable close range game to compliment his great long range one.

 

[Circus]

My point isn't that zoning is unbeatable, its that its too rewarding for the level of thought put into it while the other character has to chip through cause crappy mobility and no dash cancels.

Well that's 2D fighters for you lol.

Same could be said about Sagat, Dhalsim, and Guile in SSF4. They are just chucking crap and the other player is put on the spot stressing themselves out trying to take as little chip as possible while moving the zoner into the corner.

Is it easier to be the person shooting the fireballs than the person trying to get in? Hell yeah!
Does that make the zoning characters better over all? Absolutely not.

 

[DuskAlloy]

It went from:
"OMG cheapness zoner spam online scrubs"
"Oh, If I play patient, I can dash in and punish"
"Wait...why are his moves so safe at close?"

Most casuals consider him broken, mostly due to online, and the comp scene has shown that he has a very very formidable close range game to compliment his great long range one.

Right so he is a complete character, I see deathstroke as a reactionary zoner, him at full screen shooting like crazy wont last forever so it makes sense

 

[Doombawkz]

Then you can just f.2. :v Slap some armor on that shit and you can f.2.down command grab and jerk it while you crack backs

If we get level 1 venom armor on his f.2 he will become a true monster.
Still, I'd rather it be the charge. That or make it 23 frames.

 

[ApertureBlack]

Well that's 2D fighters for you lol.

Same could be said about Sagat, Dhalsim, and Guile in SSF4. They are just chucking crap and the other player is put on the spot stressing themselves out trying to take as little chip as possible while moving the zoner into the corner.

Is it easier to be the person shooting the fireballs than the person trying to get in? Hell yeah!
Does that make the zoning characters better over all? Absolutely not.

Again, if it was SF, with its good mobility and cancels and such. Its not the best strategy.

In slow as syrup Injustice mobility, its effect skyrockets.

 

[Rathalos]

Fixed your title lol.

Anyway, a mix, buffs and nerfs. Just doing one or the other will not fix a game.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Again, if it was SF, with its good mobility and cancels and such. Its not the best strategy.

In slow as syrup Injustice mobility, its effect skyrockets.

So is your opinion that getting in on zoning impossible, or that it is too difficult?

 

[ApertureBlack]

So is your opinion that getting in on zoning impossible, or that it is too difficult?

Its much to difficult then it should be, mostlty due to the fact that most zoning characters have ballz crazy close range skills that don't reward you enough when you actually get in.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Its much to difficult then it should be, mostlty due to the fact that most zoning characters have ballz crazy close range skills that don't reward you enough when you actually get in.

Deathstroke has decent close range, but what others?

 

[ApertureBlack]

Deathstroke has decent close range, but what others?

Adam and Lanturn have extremely safe strings while also possessing some of the best zoning tools in the game.

Superman and Aquaman may not be the best, but they both have incredibly long and fast pokes for spacing as well as an above average zoning game with multiple projectiles.

 

[Circus]

Again, if it was SF, with its good mobility and cancels and such. Its not the best strategy.

In slow as syrup Injustice mobility, its effect skyrockets.

The mobility in Injustice isn't slow it's just different, sure the walk speed is slower but the dash speed is crazy fast because most moves wont come out for about 10 frames and dashes last like 15frames. It's just different.

The biggest problem people are having against zoners too is that as soon as they are in jump in distance they feel like they NEED to jump or do something because they are close enough to and it plays directly into the zoners plan. Just because it was hard to get there doesn't mean you shouldn't try to bait a kneejerk reaction from the zoner like a SwordSpin(just like Sagat Uppercut) or a whiffed normal.

As time goes on I seriously see people not even putting Deathstroke in their top 10 lists.

Regardless of all this though, some characters DO need help getting through zoners though. I'm not saying every character has the tools to fight some matchups and that is what this thread is for.

Lex for example seriously can't make the most of his time when he actually does get into a good zoners face. And that is a problem.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Black adam and green lantern are more hybrids then anything, they have some decent zoning tools but not enough to call them true zoners imo

 

[ApertureBlack]

The mobility in Injustice isn't slow it's just different, sure the walk speed is slower but the dash speed is crazy fast because most moves wont come out for about 10 frames and dashes last like 15frames. It's just different.

The biggest problem people are having against zoners too is that as soon as they are in jump in distance they feel like they NEED to jump or do something because they are close enough to and it plays directly into the zoners plan. Just because it was hard to get there doesn't mean you shouldn't try to bait a kneejerk reaction from the zoner like a SwordSpin(just like Sagat Uppercut) or a whiffed normal.

As time goes on I seriously see people not even putting Deathstroke in their top 10 lists.

Regardless of all this though, some characters DO need help getting through zoners though. I'm not saying every character has the tools to fight some matchups and that is what this thread is for.

Lex for example seriously can't make the most of his time when he actually does get into a good zoners face. And that is a problem.

Regarding Deathstroke...he isn't winning tounys because he zones, he is winning because once they get around his zoning he has a stupidly good close range game to put them back fullscreen.

Black adam and green lantern are more hybrids then anything, they have some decent zoning tools but not enough to call them true zoners imo

BA is considered a counterzoner, as he outzones zoners and divekicks in when it happens. GL has just safe strings plus that gun...

 

[DuskAlloy]

Regarding Deathstroke...he isn't winning tounys because he zones, he is winning because once they get around his zoning he has a stupidly good close range game to put them back fullscreen.

Has he won any tournies?

 

[DuskAlloy]

Regarding Deathstroke...he isn't winning tounys because he zones, he is winning because once they get around his zoning he has a stupidly good close range game to put them back fullscreen.

I only know of one string he has that does that, and i dont think its one of his better ones

 

[ApertureBlack]

Has he won any tournies?

Quite a few, look at some old threads, I believe one had him on like 5th or 6th overall in tourney wins.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Quite a few, look at some old threads, I believe one had him on like 5th or 6th overall in tourney wins.

Which ever it is, there are still 5 or 6 that have won more, and I dont think any of those were cyborg

 

[ApertureBlack]

Which ever it is, there are still 5 or 6 that have won more, and I dont think any of those were cyborg

They aren't, he is currently overatted due to his infinite. BA is currently the #1 winner spot I believe.

 

[Circus]

Regarding Deathstroke...he isn't winning tounys because he zones, he is winning because once they get around his zoning he has a stupidly good close range game to put them back fullscreen.

Thats his game though. He does his little 20% combo and pushes you full screen to do another 15% in chip as you come in. It's extremely frustrating and that is the point, but if you are patient and just stomach the chip damage to get in again, your fine.

Deathstroke's offense up close revolves around knocking you back again, but this isn't even close to what happens if he gets knocked down by someone like Doomsday or Nightwing or even Bane. He enters a mini vortex where he has to be scared of another mixup as he wakes up and has to hope for another opening for his baby damage combos to push the rusher back so he could get another 10% in chip again lol.


For GL, Superman, and Black Adam. Their projectiles are basically to force you to do something and force you into the range where they want you. Again though, realize where they want you (mid distance is the answer for all three) and predict what they will do and counter it. Like neutral jump from mid distance if you predict a Superman F23. These three characters use their projectiles more like Ryu from SSF4. He doesn't really zone, but just forces you into positions where he wants you with them.