Guide Shazam BnBs may 2013

[Shawi]

Honestly, i've come to the conclusion that he is simply terrible. Just playing a few games now with a mate and I've concluded that:
His wakeup game is next to nothing. All moves get stuffed.
His normals have no mixups. All overhead.
His specials are highly punishable, especially the teleport on startup (not so much the AT)
Both grabs can be dashed out of from 22. Both grabs are punished on whiff. When connecting a grab (which his mixup game is based on) you need meter to continue the combo and can't really get much more than 35% bnb.
His mixup game from a hard knockdown isn't really 50:50 either, its like 33:33:33 lol The opponent can block low, block high, or wake up.
No amount of patching can fix this character but nevertheless #shazamtillidie

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Honestly, i've come to the conclusion that he is simply terrible. Just playing a few games now with a mate and I've concluded that:
His wakeup game is next to nothing. All moves get stuffed.
His normals have no mixups. All overhead.
His specials are highly punishable, especially the teleport on startup (not so much the AT)
Both grabs can be dashed out of from 22. Both grabs are punished on whiff. When connecting a grab (which his mixup game is based on) you need meter to continue the combo and can't really get much more than 35% bnb.
His mixup game from a hard knockdown isn't really 50:50 either, its like 33:33:33 lol The opponent can block low, block high, or wake up.
No amount of patching can fix this character but nevertheless #shazamtillidie

all this is more than true

 

[MashPotatoTower]

I wanted to play shazam because he is a grappler but now that lobo is in the game he is the best grappler and has 50% 1 bar mid screens with way better mobility, AA, rushdown, mixup, and zoning. just a better character in every way possible. seriously

 

[Shawi]

I wanted to play shazam because he is a grappler but now that lobo is in the game he is the best grappler and has 50% 1 bar mid screens with way better mobility, AA, rushdown, mixup, and zoning. just a better character in every way possible. seriously

yeah haha, ive seen. Why NRS think it is okay for him to have low, overhead, high, grabs an AA and such high damage is beyond me. But come on, there must be some shazam tech that will move him up the ranks!

Shazammm!!

 

[MashPotatoTower]

yeah haha, ive seen. Why NRS think it is okay for him to have low, overhead, high, grabs an AA and such high damage is beyond me. But come on, there must be some shazam tech that will move him up the ranks!

because they are into pay to win DLC just like in MK. marketing

 

[pogse]

Honestly, i've come to the conclusion that he is simply terrible. Just playing a few games now with a mate and I've concluded that:
His wakeup game is next to nothing. All moves get stuffed.
His normals have no mixups. All overhead.
His specials are highly punishable, especially the teleport on startup (not so much the AT)
Both grabs can be dashed out of from 22. Both grabs are punished on whiff. When connecting a grab (which his mixup game is based on) you need meter to continue the combo and can't really get much more than 35% bnb.
His mixup game from a hard knockdown isn't really 50:50 either, its like 33:33:33 lol The opponent can block low, block high, or wake up.
No amount of patching can fix this character but nevertheless #shazamtillidie

a tighter block string would be ok, but then that might kill doing AC on read cause of block stun still in effect.
Shazam is not terrible, just very heavy slow footsie momentum base or maybe all footsie (he does not know pressure).

33:33:33 is good enough.

Just not touching the character would be enough, cause comebacks with a character that has 35% meter burn bnb feels awesome.

I agree though that Lobo's mobility is ridiculous, but right now no one can match range and startup of HM.

 

[Throwback]

Idk where I should be posting combos - here or the other thread. Anyway, a higher damage bnb for AC:

ACmb, f223 HM - 33%

 

[MisterSpyker]

Not too sure on how much this one does, can someone check?

2 bar - f221, 2LowGrab~mb, HighGrab~mb, BCB, j.2 11AT
Should be around 40% traitless

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Idk where I should be posting combos - here or the other thread. Anyway, a higher damage bnb for AC:

ACmb, f223 HM - 33%

so obvious, how did we miss it lol

 

[Johnny2d]

I entered for the bnbs, and saw some good bnbs, but also a lot of discussion on nerfs and buffs. I don't disagree with any of the points made but can offer a thought or two coming from a person that put a lot of time into Jade in MK9. The kinds of changes you guys are talking about aren't going to happen. This is the design they intended for him to have and if that makes him low tier, the developers probably already knew that, although they have their reasons and have insight to what this character can do that we have yet to discover or show off at tournaments. The best thing for us all to do (if people are committed to the character) is to work with the design at hand and be aggressive about getting smarter, and learning ways to win with what we have. Just because he doesn't have all the tools that some other characters have doesn't mean he is a bad design, just different, and his style might not get him a juicy spot on tier lists.

Thats not to say that letting your feelings out doesn't help. Even Jade got a little buff with low boomerang in early MK9 (it sometimes didn't come back). Small things might happen, just don't expect to see anything that elvevates him into a higher tier. You can ask for changes, but at the same time be proud of your wins that you get with a character that doesn't have all the tools that some others have.

Cheers guys. I love the way this character plays and will main Shazam till the end!!!

 

[Shawi]

Fair comments, however, see "Jax" from MK9

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Cheers guys. I love the way this character plays and will main Shazam till the end!!!

Yeah too true. we were asking for some critical buffs, but I still feel tho that to some extent essential
one thing is true about shazam: No one has maxed him out yet. Every other day I find something useful and new with him. Also I think he goes even with some critical mu's like Superman, BA, Batman, Aquaman, Doomsday and GL. but nothing is certain of course.
plus with the newly discovered Throw break combos, he is clearly not bottom 5. hopefully they won't patch it out because i'm pretty sure its unintentional.

 

[Johnny2d]

Yeah too true. we were asking for some critical buffs, but I still feel tho that to some extent essential
one thing is true about shazam: No one has maxed him out yet. Every other day I find something useful and new with him. Also I think he goes even with some critical mu's like Superman, BA, Batman, Aquaman, Doomsday and GL. but nothing is certain of course.
plus with the newly discovered Throw break combos, he is clearly not bottom 5. hopefully they won't patch it out because i'm pretty sure its unintentional.

I agree, not maxed out. Also, even in the really frustrating matches where he struggles to get in, I never feel like its impossible. I think he's got some 4-6s, but I don't think he's got 3-7s... could be wrong though, the game is early still.

 

[pogse]

I agree, not maxed out. Also, even in the really frustrating matches where he struggles to get in, I never feel like its impossible. I think he's got some 4-6s, but I don't think he's got 3-7s... could be wrong though, the game is early still.

Imma guess 3-7 is against Grundy?
I actually love matchups that are not in shazams favor, helps shazam know what options he opt to take at certain situations.

and the end of the Teleport does nullify (or armor) 1 projectile at the end of the recovery. someone already discussed this, just want to make sure its clear.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Imma guess 3-7 is against Grundy?
I actually love matchups that are not in shazams favor, helps shazam know what options he opt to take at certain situations.

and the end of the Teleport does nullify (or armor) 1 projectile at the end of the recovery. someone already discussed this, just want to make sure its clear.

I would say Shazam beats Grundy hard. Grundy needs to bust is cheese to get in because torpedo alone destroys his armor options. Same goes for bane. Shazams bad MUs are heavy zoners like DS and Sinestro. He can't punish fast guns and can tele in on both there zoning easy.

 

[pogse]

I would say Shazam beats Grundy hard. Grundy needs to bust is cheese to get in because torpedo alone destroys his armor options. Same goes for bane. Shazams bad MUs are heavy zoners like DS and Sinestro. He can't punish fast guns and can tele in on both there zoning easy.

with Sinestro I agree, with DS not so much. Maybe it just me having trouble with crouching Grundy waiting for AT and punishing with 11 to a full combo.
Shazam can teleport if timed right, but Yes it is based on a high risk read and cannot be done after recovery on block.

to get on topic: a meterless bnb I will try to use more often due to the advantage shazam gets after
d2 - ji2 - (2 or 1 if laggy) - AC
f223 - (2 or 1 if laggy) - AC

Shazams might have already known this kind of play but might as well. when Shazam gets a hit, since he requires meter to build dmg, its more pratical to convert hits into an AC ender combo to setup for a BNB rather than going straight to Shazams BNB. Like I said, most or all might already know this. Just a starter tip I guess for new shazams.

 

[Johnny2d]

Imma guess 3-7 is against Grundy?
I actually love matchups that are not in shazams favor, helps shazam know what options he opt to take at certain situations.

and the end of the Teleport does nullify (or armor) 1 projectile at the end of the recovery. someone already discussed this, just want to make sure its clear.

I don't know, I don't think the Grundy match is bad for him. Don't get me wrong, Grundy is a great character. I just love playing against Grundy. I've played some high level Grundy players too, and thats one of my favorite matches to run.

I do'nt like tier lists really so I'm not going to say numbers on specifics, but I will say that Shazam can struggle to get in against good zoning players. He has the tools to handle it so he's far from dead in the water. The zoning player has to zone intelligently for the zoning to keep him out.

 

[SpoKEI]

Finnaly i dont have problem to do HM but i cant fucking get the timing!!!! never get it when i try to do 22+hm or j2 22 hm, and what tohers options do we have when hm + meter b2 ??

 

[Throwback]

Finnaly i dont have problem to do HM but i cant fucking get the timing!!!! never get it when i try to do 22+hm or j2 22 hm, and what tohers options do we have when hm + meter b2 ??

There are a bunch of combos in this thread and the other thread.

 

[NMISM-Grinch]

with Sinestro I agree, with DS not so much.

see, i'm totally opposite. Against Sinestro all you have to do is Hulk up and walk forward, DON'T DUCK! Unless my Sinestro player here is doing something really wrong, he transforms from some great zoner into a character that looks like he's desperately trying to keep you away from him.

Now DS, i'm at a loss in what to do in that matchup, i try to stay in HM range, but once i get pushed out, i can't seem to find a way back in.

 

[pogse]

see, i'm totally opposite. Against Sinestro all you have to do is Hulk up and walk forward, DON'T DUCK! Unless my Sinestro player here is doing something really wrong, he transforms from some great zoner into a character that looks like he's desperately trying to keep you away from him.

Now DS, i'm at a loss in what to do in that matchup, i try to stay in HM range, but once i get pushed out, i can't seem to find a way back in.

Yeah, realized it when I got into the lab with Sinestro (He cool). I gotta get more MU though.

HM is great, but not to DS who likes sword flipping.
if DS is a low gun shot zoner? jump on block (a read that he will do low gunshot again), else dash.
if you notice DS is changing the timing of his gunshots? walk.
if he hits you with a gunshot, block after. I used to do dashes when I get hit, never worked out.
and try to look at DS when getting in from fullscreen.

midscreen bnb to push DS to corner would be f223 112 teleport, then bait wake up.

 

[Throwback]

DS is very, very hard to beat. Being a gadget character is awesome for interactables and keepaway.

Gunshots eat teleport.

Air GS to low GS catches dashes.

Wakeup sword spin will beat anything and everything except whiff punishment (100% safe on block), including jump-ins & crossovers.

To win this matchup, you need to a) duck low & dash in after every single GS at long range; then b) win the neutral game (shazam's advantage but not by much, imo); then c) make a bunch of his more difficult-to-execute reads on his wakeup.

You have to be extremely patient at range. Once you get in you really can catch up huge life totals, as long as you don't do anything stupid getting in.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Wakeup sword spin will beat anything and everything except whiff punishment (100% safe on block), including jump-ins & crossovers.

I hope this is a typo or I read it wrong because Sword Flip is the most punishable attack in video game history.

 

[Throwback]

sword spin.

spin.

SPIN.

etc, etc.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

sword spin.
spin.
SPIN.
etc, etc.

oh that other one. got it