Strategy Knowing Your Arsenal - A Deathstroke Move Analysis and Discussion

[Batman-IGAU]

Using it at the beginning of the match? I'm sorry, but that sounds like a terribly dangerous idea. Many characters can open you up for a combo at that range.

Like I said, the safest options I've found so far would be D2 > Trait cancel, full screen after some gunshots, and F23 on a grounded opponent.
Even then, only the first one is COMPLETELY safe.

I was being sarcastic out frustration with ER.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

As a response to his trait. As I've stated before(in the DS personal convo, so I expect not everyone seeing it), it's just a gimmick. There is no viable way of starting it up.

You can use it if your opponent respects your zoning TOO much (full screen footsies your opponent is waiting for you to do a GS and you've seen that he does nothing when you back dash or walk back)

But when you DO get it activated, the best way to use it IMO is the 132 string full screen. The bullet is a mid-hitting 5% but either on hit or whiff you're at massive negative frames. But it's the only way to guarantee you damage. You should have enough time to get them jumping in fear of 132 and then Air Guns would be your best buddy.

You could also use Machine Gun MB and get the guaranteed LowGS if you wish to use meter.

 

[Mikman360]

As a response to his trait. As I've stated before(in the DS personal convo, so I expect not everyone seeing it), it's just a gimmick. There is no viable way of starting it up.

You can use it if your opponent respects your zoning TOO much (full screen footsies your opponent is waiting for you to do a GS and you've seen that he does nothing when you back dash or walk back)

But when you DO get it activated, the best way to use it IMO is the 132 string full screen. The bullet is a mid-hitting 5% but either on hit or whiff you're at massive negative frames. But it's the only way to guarantee you damage. You should have enough time to get them jumping in fear of 132 and then Air Guns would be your best buddy.

You could also use Machine Gun MB and get the guaranteed LowGS if you wish to use meter.

Why 132 over machine gun? Isnt machine gun faster startup considering you have to do 1 before the gunshot comes out? And why must we meter burn it? All the bullets hit mid.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Why 132 over machine gun? Isnt machine gun faster startup considering you have to do 1 before the gunshot comes out? And why must we meter burn it? All the bullets hit mid.

No, MG has 22f start-up while 13 has 12f. You also don't have the visual cue of DS pulling out a GOD DAMN MACHINE GUN from his back. So they'd expect it less unless it's an experienced player.

And as for the MG MB, it's just in case they jump it. So that it's 100% guaranteed. You could do it on reaction as well. But I'm lazy to train my reactions given that I play mostly online.

 

[Mikman360]

No, MG has 22f start-up while 13 has 12f. You also don't have the visual cue of DS pulling out a GOD DAMN MACHINE GUN from his back. So they'd expect it less unless it's an experienced player.

And as for the MG MB, it's just in case they jump it. So that it's 100% guaranteed. You could do it on reaction as well. But I'm lazy to train my reactions given that I play mostly online.

Lol wooooooow. I hadn't tested it yet, but MG starts up slower than even 13? That's disappointing...
But I do feel like DS swinging at the air would be enough of a visual cue that he's going to fire as well. I mean, why else would the DS just whiff 1 for no reason?

 

[Posthuman]

I feel like DS has too much recovery after some projectiles... this is gonna be deadly once we level up

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Lol wooooooow. I hadn't tested it yet, but MG starts up slower than even 13? That's disappointing...
But I do feel like DS swinging at the air would be enough of a visual cue that he's going to fire as well. I mean, why else would the DS just whiff 1 for no reason?

A missed input, an attempted bait , who knows? But definitely not a full-screen mid hitting gun. At least, as I've stated before, to the inexperienced.

I feel like DS has too much recovery after some projectiles... this is gonna be deadly once we level up

Day 1 I planned on dropping DS just because of his frame data and my success with the Very Hard AI seeing how they get in on me so easily. And besides, I don't remember seeing a DS player get Top 8 at a tourny. Without everyone leveling up too much he's already pretty bad. Don't give in to popular beliefs composed by online scrubs.

 

[Batman-IGAU]

No, MG has 22f start-up while 13 has 12f. You also don't have the visual cue of DS pulling out a GOD DAMN MACHINE GUN from his back. So they'd expect it less unless it's an experienced player.

And as for the MG MB, it's just in case they jump it. So that it's 100% guaranteed. You could do it on reaction as well. But I'm lazy to train my reactions given that I play mostly online.

I love the Machine Gun, it adds to the unpredictable inconsistency when used with pistol shots. Just when they thinks they have the timing down of my high-low-low-air-low-pistol shots----machine gun lol.

 

[Mikman360]

Saying he's "pretty bad" is a bit much of an exaggeration IMO. He does have a lot of really good tools. People just need to stop believing that it's the keepaway that makes him. Even then it's easily top 3 keepaway in the game still. Cyborg's is probably better, Sinestro's is debatable. Very Hard CPUs just read your inputs hardcore. As soon as you input low guns, they jump. As soon as you input stand guns, they take the least amount of frames it takes to duck under it and dash in. Not saying that a human player isnt capable of doing this as well, but they're less likely to be perfect situation calculators.

Aris DID win that tournament with DS too.

I feel that DS is a pretty well rounded character able to play keepaway extremely well AND fight up close. He has a lot of good mixups, pretty good combo damage, and safe strings on block.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

No, MG has 22f start-up while 13 has 12f. You also don't have the visual cue of DS pulling out a GOD DAMN MACHINE GUN from his back. So they'd expect it less unless it's an experienced player.

And as for the MG MB, it's just in case they jump it. So that it's 100% guaranteed. You could do it on reaction as well. But I'm lazy to train my reactions given that I play mostly online.

The 2 in 13 is 12f, you need to add the 8f from 1...well shit that's still faster than MG.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I love the Machine Gun, it adds to the unpredictable inconsistency when used with pistol shots. Just when they thinks they have the timing down of my high-low-low-air-low-pistol shots----machine gun lol.

I don't use MG as much anymore since most have learned to stand block the Grenade. But I still use it for it's pushback on MB.

Saying he's "pretty bad" is a bit much of an exaggeration IMO. He does have a lot of really good tools. People just need to stop believing that it's the keepaway that makes him. Even then it's easily top 3 keepaway in the game still. Cyborg's is probably better, Sinestro's is debatable. Very Hard CPUs just read your inputs hardcore. As soon as you input low guns, they jump. As soon as you input stand guns, they take the least amount of frames it takes to duck under it and dash in. Not saying that a human player isnt capable of doing this as well, but they're less likely to be perfect situation calculators.

Aris DID win that tournament with DS too.

I feel that DS is a pretty well rounded character able to play keepaway extremely well AND fight up close. He has a lot of good mixups, pretty good combo damage, and safe strings on block.

I didn't mean it like that. I'm fully aware that DS is a good all-rounded character. I just meant that if you know what you're doing. You could blow him up pretty badly.

I really see him as the Noob Saibot of this game. He has his dirt and he's solid. But exploiting his weaknesses will end up hurting him really badly.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

The 2 in 12 is 12f, you need to add the 8f from 1...well shit that's still faster than MG.

Thanks. I completely overlooked that.

 

[Batman-IGAU]

Saying he's "pretty bad" is a bit much of an exaggeration IMO. He does have a lot of really good tools. People just need to stop believing that it's the keepaway that makes him. Even then it's easily top 3 keepaway in the game still. Cyborg's is probably better, Sinestro's is debatable. Very Hard CPUs just read your inputs hardcore. As soon as you input low guns, they jump. As soon as you input stand guns, they take the least amount of frames it takes to duck under it and dash in. Not saying that a human player isnt capable of doing this as well, but they're less likely to be perfect situation calculators.

Aris DID win that tournament with DS too.

I feel that DS is a pretty well rounded character able to play keepaway extremely well AND fight up close. He has a lot of good mixups, pretty good combo damage, and safe strings on block.

I think Deathstroke is a sophisticated and dynamically amazing character that was well put together. I'm not tournament minded when it comes to gameplay by only using "safe" strings and specials like so many players do by doing the same damn moves over and over again just because the move/s recovers quick so they can block if they don't connect. I like playing for real fun by using all the moves he has to offer even if some strings and moves I do get blown up. When you play for fun using all his moves the character comes to life through the player and its looks just so awesome!

 

[Mikman360]

Understood.

MG makes me sadder and sadder every time I look at it though. The most redeeming quality it has is that it hits mid. But if you look at the other parts of it, you wonder why you ever need to use it.

1. It chips LESS than pistols (waddafack?)
2. Slower
3. More recovery time
4. Useless in combos
5. Only 1 more bullet than pistols as a projectile (it only gets all 6 hits if the first bullet confirms). This means it's only slightly harder to jump over this move than standing pistols.
6. Did you know that opponents can block a MB MG and reversal a move before the grenade lands?

Also, I notice there seems to be less discussion of 3231 going on. I guess it's a pretty straight forward move after all. Let me know if you have any comments or disagreements with anything I've said. Anyone mind if I move the thread on to another move tomorrow?

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Understood.

MG makes me sadder and sadder every time I look at it though. The most redeeming quality it has is that it hits mid. But if you look at the other parts of it, you wonder why you ever need to use it.

1. It chips LESS than pistols (waddafack?)
2. Slower
3. More recovery time
4. Useless in combos
5. Only 1 more bullet than pistols as a projectile (it only gets all 6 hits if the first bullet confirms). This means it's only slightly harder to jump over this move than standing pistols.
6. Did you know that opponents can block a MB MG and reversal a move before the grenade lands?

Also, I notice there seems to be less discussion of 3231 going on. I guess it's a pretty straight forward move after all. Let me know if you have any comments or disagreements with anything I've said. Anyone mind if I move the thread on to another move tomorrow?

Honestly nothing much is to discuss about 3231. The only move you could link it with is AirGS, its damage is pretty garbage compared to 323 , F23 x Sword Flip and lastly, you can't even get it out on block because the string stops at 32.

 

[Batman-IGAU]

Understood.

MG makes me sadder and sadder every time I look at it though. The most redeeming quality it has is that it hits mid. But if you look at the other parts of it, you wonder why you ever need to use it.

1. It chips LESS than pistols (waddafack?)
2. Slower
3. More recovery time
4. Useless in combos
5. Only 1 more bullet than pistols as a projectile (it only gets all 6 hits if the first bullet confirms). This means it's only slightly harder to jump over this move than standing pistols.
6. Did you know that opponents can block a MB MG and reversal a move before the grenade lands?

Also, I notice there seems to be less discussion of 3231 going on. I guess it's a pretty straight forward move after all. Let me know if you have any comments or disagreements with anything I've said. Anyone mind if I move the thread on to another move tomorrow?

3,1,2 Topic?

 

[Mikman360]

Honestly nothing much is to discuss about 3231. The only move you could link it with is AirGS, its damage is pretty garbage compared to 323 , F23 x Sword Flip and lastly, you can't even get it out on block because the string stops at 32.

Yeah pretty much. In longer combos that have 4+ hits after the launch, it's better to go 323, 12, Sword Flip though rather than F23.

3,1,2 Topic?

What now? As far as I know, DS doesnt have a 312 string. I was thinking of discussing F3 or Sword Flip tomorrow.

 

[Sao87]

I've found some sick corner resets and the most viable way to set up his trait for 3 machine gun attempts. I might post a video on all my deathstroke stuff soon.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Yeah pretty much. In longer combos that have 4+ hits after the launch, it's better to go 323, 12, Sword Flip though rather than F23..

F23 comes out faster and I find it easier to input 'cause you could semi-mash it.

And I recall it doing more damage(not sure TONY-T ),

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

I think you covered pretty much everything with 3231.

The best non-meter I could find is 323, 12 xx Machine Gun (29%).

If your 32 is blocked maybe it's a good idea to xx Sword Spin against most the cast. Get that chip, extra meter, and push them back a bit.

 

[Batman-IGAU]

Yeah pretty much. In longer combos that have 4+ hits after the launch, it's better to go 323, 12, Sword Flip though rather than F23.



What now? As far as I know, DS doesnt have a 312 string. I was thinking of discussing F3 or Sword Flip tomorrow.

damn I must be the dumbest and least tech educated DS fan in here. I meant 1,3,2.

 

[Batman-IGAU]

I think you covered pretty much everything with 3231.

The best non-meter I could find is 323, 12 xx Machine Gun (29%).

If your 32 is blocked maybe it's a good idea to xx Sword Spin against most the cast. Get that chip, extra meter, and push them back a bit.

nice!

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I think you covered pretty much everything with 3231.

The best non-meter I could find is 323, 12 xx Machine Gun (29%).

If your 32 is blocked maybe it's a good idea to xx Sword Spin against most the cast. Get that chip, extra meter, and push them back a bit.

This is a bad idea. You're better off cancelling to Sword Spin. Unless you want to be full-combo punished.

 

[Mikman360]

F23 comes out faster and I find it easier to input 'cause you could semi-mash it.

And I recall it doing more damage(not sure TONY-T ),

In some combos this is the case. F23 is 1 frame faster than 12, there's pretty much no combo that they cannot be interchanged.
This combo for example...

B3, Ji3, Ji2, 1, 323, 12, Sword Flip

...only works with 12 as the link before Sword Flip. Like I said, it's only important for combos with over 4 hits after the launch (Tony-T revealed this to me himself). So if you get to the 323 and you've done too many hits, 12 will safely assure ALL your Sword Flip hits land. F23 will make a few hits of Sword Flip miss.

12 also leads more reliably into MB guns.

I think you covered pretty much everything with 3231.

The best non-meter I could find is 323, 12 xx Machine Gun (29%).

If your 32 is blocked maybe it's a good idea to xx Sword Spin against most the cast. Get that chip, extra meter, and push them back a bit.

...well thank you for that good sir. This is exactly why I want this discussion. That 29% beats my 26% meterless bnb for 323, and even gives you a real reason to use MG

But Sword Flip after a 32 on block is probably a no-no. That stuff is mad punishable on block.

damn I must be the dumbest and least tech educated DS fan in here. I meant 1,3,2.

Mistakes happen. I was thinking of getting a discussion on at least 1 single move and 1 special move before going back to the combo strings. When I do get back on that though, 132 will be first!

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

This is a bad idea. You're better off cancelling to Sword Spin. Unless you want to be full-combo punished.

I said Sword Spin <____<