General/Other [Petition] Doomsday's Meter Burn Armor to be active during his Character Power

[Bildslash]

I was holding out on this Buff petition until a later time when the game was fleshed out more in tournament play by the experts and online play (let's not kid oursevles) by the rest of the community. However, REO 's Predictions and Tom Brady 's Anti-DD Bible have forced the issue to be addressed sooner.

Doomsday needs to have Meter Burn Armor available during his Character Power.

Let's breakdown his Doomsday's Character Power "Doom to All" to understand the reasoning behind this petition. (Note: Feel free to point out what is missing)

Doom to All

Pros
-Reduced Hit and Block Stun.
-Doomsday can't be combo punished regardless of location (air, ground) while it is active.

Cons
-Duration is 4-5 seconds worth.
-Cooldown is ~10 seconds worth.
-Doomsday is still subject to Guard Crush.
-Meter Burn Armor is negated.

Some might think Doomsday Character Power is good or *gasp* overpowered as is. Sadly, this is not true. I will quote Tom's Anti-DD Bible to point out Doomsdays weaknesses:

3. Countering Trait:

His trait negates ALL of HIS armor. In other words, NONE of his armor attacks have armor while his trait is active, not even his super. This means that you can ATTACK DD while his trait is active and not worry about any of his armor attacks.

Some characters naturally counter his trait pretty easy, others do not. For characters that do not, you must anticipate his activation. If I am a Green Lantern player I won't wait until he surprises me with his activation before I do anything, I will try to anticipate it and MB Mini-Gun him right as he activates. If I am a Black Adam player I will MB Lightning as he activates. Most characters have some option like this, however some do not. Again, do not forget that you do not have to deal with the armor on his MB shoulder while trait is active, so you can attack him and use the fact that DD has slower normals then most of the cast against him.

While in trait he does have reduced block and hit stun.. HOWEVER.. Some attacks still retain their guard crush properties on him. An example is Batman.. Even though DD's trait is active, Batman's 113 on block will still cause guard stun on DD and keep him at disadvantage. DD would have to intentionally get hit by the last hit of the string and use his reduced hit stun to counter. Batman can always use 11~MB Batarang which will retain its +38 on block despite DD having his trait active and should DD release block after 11 in an attempt to get hit by the 3, the MB Batarang option will hit and still leave Batman at advantage to continue attacking.

Remember, while in his trait, DD takes less hit stun. This means that you should only use attacks that allow you to recover quickly to avoid DD taking the hit, then recovering in time to combo you.

...

Always remember that DD is a high risk, low to mid reward character so the risk/reward is almost always in your favor.

Doomsday biggest problem is his normals are in average slower than the standard. All his Characte Power does is prevent him from getting a full combo punish while mounting his offense. That doesn't prevent characters with quick and/or multi-hitting attacks from stoping him dead on his tracks; let's not forget they don't have to do so for long before Doomsday Character Power wears off.

There is one other character in the game with a Character Power similar to Doomsday's: Aquaman. Aquaman gets reduced hit stun on ground attacks, can use his ability on the fly, and retains the use of his Meter Burn Armor.

Now we will start a comparison between Doomsday and Aquaman. (Note: Feel free to point out what is missing)

Doomsday
-Powerful advancing special move: Venom.
-Good AA: Air Snatch.
-Big reaching B3, both foward and upward.
-Very good multi-hitting move: Earth Shake.
-Fast and long distance dash; it takes 2 dashes to traverse fullscreen.
-One gimmick special move: Supernova.
-Character Power has short duration and long cooldown.
-Character Power negates Meter Burn Armor use.
-Poor mix up game: only 1 normal low (D+3) and 3 slow overheads (F+3, F+2, B+1).
-Slow normal moves.
-Below average combo damage output--yes I went there.
-Average frame traps; frame traps are not frame traps when you only have 10f+ attacks to work with after +1 - +2 advantage on block.

Aquaman
-Excellent AA: D+2 into full combo punish.
-Big reaching B3, both foward and upward.
-Powerful multi-hitting move: Triden Rush.
-Powerful tracking special move that leads to combos.
-Universal Parry.
-Character Power available on the fly.
-Character Power allows Meter Burn Armor use.
-Long reaching normals.
-Excellent mix up game: low and overhead strings and special moves combo starters.
-Above average combo damage output.
-Fast dash.
-Unsafe and combo punishable normal and special moves up close.
-Weak and limited options from midscreen to fullscreen distance.
-Character Power doesn't protect him from juggle combos.

In short, a character that without a question is better equipped than Doomsday has access to his Meter Burn Armor during a Character Power that mirrors Doomsday's.

Fellow Doomsday players, I invite you to share your thoughts on this. If I'm wrong please let me know, all I ask is no flaming and inmature discussion; I will contact mods if this thread gets derailed.

@GGA Jeremiah Metzos J/P Glass_Sword Fractured_Shadow cyke_out HungryforPasta Runiix Primiera Sasarix MastererBetty afro insomniac Phragonist Belial ShanxterX Pterodactyl KillerOfBunnies @all other DD players

---

colt hecterrific I'm leaving this for your consideration. I opened a poll to gauge the community's opinion on the matter.

 

[Sasarix]

He will need buffs to stay viable later in the games life imo. Once ppl get more familiar with the MU he will be easily beaten by most skilled players.

 

[RYX]

Yes.

I'm still going to level 3 venom you, bitch.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

God forbid one of the best characters in the game has one little weakness that we can exploit. Yeah let's remove that weakness and add super armor on top of his trait so that nearly no one in the cast can have an answer against him while his trait is active.

Let's also make pushblock cost 2 meters because it's too good and stops DD's pressure too easily.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Armorception.

 

[keo-bas]

They designed hm the way he his to keep him in check. Of course some character are going to dominate or nullify doomsday gameplan. this i s a fighting game and match up like this exist every where. Its up to the player to offset their character weakness. Its called adapting.

 

[Metzos]

Bildslash, imo the real problem with DD is not so much about his trait, but his normals. He is SLOW. I mean, and i fully agree with you Bildlash, what is the point of having moves which are +f on block if you cant use them effectively ? I remember in the vanilla version of the game, his B1 was +10f on block. Imo they shouldnt have nerfed that. It was slow as hell and it could easily be avoided by wake up back dash or fast wake up attacks, after a successful hard knock down. B1 was vital in his pressure game after some conditions were met. He had a really good mix up there. 3 and 33 are only good when there are used in the corner, everywhere else its useless, except if you use MB Venom afterwards to get in and start pressuring. 123 can be interrupted, but you can mix it up with 12 x ES if you except to be interrupted. 22 is -22f on block (omg....), but even so you can also mix it up with ES's. Also. Why in the green hell he can be parried when his trait is active is beyond my understanding. The trait description clearly states that he CANNOT be knocked down, launched etc, while his trait is active, so i believe that it might be a bug than intentional. His trait is fine IMO. If NRS decides to buff it, all hell will break loose, trust me. The only buff i would give DD is the +f's on his old B1 back. Old B1 was scary as hell.

 

[Qwark28]

Lol, just because TB and REO point out this characters flaws and say he will be discovered soon means he should be patched?

 

[MastererBetty]

I understand that character changes are a little too early to be addressed at this stage of the games life, but there was a bunch of stuff that was brought up with the Anti-Doomsday Bible that does seem a little shifty.

For how easily it can be beat out sometimes(Green Lantern MB Machine Gun, Black Adam Lightning) I'd like to have his trait cooldown go down by 1 second

Since Doomsday only has 1 armor move I think it should be fine to retain armor while character power is active

 

[cyke_out]

Frankly, I don't know why DD is the only character where his trait locks him out of a basic universal gameplay mechanic?

 

[Bildslash]

Yes.

I'm still going to level 3 venom you, bitch.

Screw you I have... uhm... nothing.

God forbid one of the best characters in the game has one little weakness that we can exploit. Yeah let's remove that weakness and add super armor on top of his trait so that nearly no one in the cast can have an answer against him while his trait is active.

Let's also make pushblock cost 2 meters because it's too good and stops DD's pressure too easily.

People deal with Aquaman I'm sure they can deal with DD.

Armorception.

Aaawwwww...

They designed hm the way he his to keep him in check. Of course some character are going to dominate or nullify doomsday gameplan. this i s a fighting game and match up like this exist every where. Its up to the player to offset their character weakness. Its called adapting.

I'm well aware of that. In fact I'm not even asking to have his real issues addressed: +frames on block and normal moves speed. I'm simply asking for a tool an equally or possibly stronger character have that DD doesn't.

Bildslash, imo the real problem with DD is not so much about his trait, but his normals. He is SLOW. I mean, and i fully agree with you Bildlash, what is the point of having moves which are +f on block if you cant use them effectively ? I remember in the vanilla version of the game, his B1 was +10f on block. Imo they shouldnt have nerfed that. It was slow as hell and it could easily be avoided by wake up back dash or fast wake up attacks, after a successful hard knock down. B1 was vital in his pressure game after some conditions were met. He had a really good mix up there. 3 and 33 are only good when there are used in the corner, everywhere else its useless, except if you use MB Venom afterwards to get in and start pressuring. 123 can be interrupted, but you can mix it up with 12 x ES if you except to be interrupted. 22 is -22f on block (omg....), but even so you can also mix it up with ES's. Also. Why in the green hell he can be parried when his trait is active is beyond my understanding. The trait description clearly states that he CANNOT be knocked down, launched etc, while his trait is active, so i believe that it might be a bug than intentional. His trait is fine IMO. If NRS decides to buff it, all hell will break loose, trust me. The only buff i would give DD is the +f's on his old B1 back. Old B1 was scary as hell.

Didn't know that. I got the game 2-3 days after launch once the day 1 patch was already in effect. I know we can always use D+1 or D+1 xx ES. But I wonder, how long will ES be as effective as it currently is?

Now, would it be that bad to have armor while his trait is active? Aquaman does and he's clearly a powerhouse.

Lol, just because TB and REO point out this characters flaws and say he will be discovered soon means he should be patched?

I use the character. I know people get beaten up easily --no, let me rephrase-- raped because they are still unfamiliar with him. When you see players on stream not using MB B3/F3, not dashing on reaction to Supernova, not using interactables, and not clashing then you realize it's not so much the character but the player base that isn't using all the elements of the game on their favor.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Maaan. If Doomsday gets buffs, I was Stroker too. Since people are lazy to find tech.

 

[Qwark28]

Screw you I have... uhm... nothing.

People deal with Aquaman I'm sure they can deal with DD.

Aaawwwww...

I'm well aware of that. In fact I'm not even asking to have his real issues addressed: +frames on block and normal moves speed. I'm simply asking for a tool an equally or possibly stronger character have that DD doesn't.

Didn't know that. I got the game 2-3 days after launch once the day 1 patch was already in effect. I know we can always use D+1 or D+1 xx ES. But I wonder, how long will ES be as effective as it currently is?

Now, would it be that bad to have armor while his trait is active? Aquaman does and he's clearly a powerhouse.

I use the character. I know people get beaten up easily --no, let me rephrase-- raped because they are still unfamiliar with him. When you see players on stream not using MB B3/F3, not dashing on reaction to Supernova, not using interactables, and not clashing then you realize it's not so much the character but the player base that isn't using all the elements of the game on their favor.

Don't you think the character will evolve past gimmicks?

 

[Bildslash]

Maaan. If Doomsday gets buffs, I was Stroker too. Since people are lazy to find tech.

I'm always looking for tech. But like I pointed out in the first paragraph, certain events forced this thread to be made.

 

[Deyrax]

Well, Doomsday is a self-buffing walking death machine, so him getting buffs is a MUST.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

You can have it has long has they nerf the over head~low or buff netplay. In most online matches it's nigh unblockable.

 

[cyke_out]

You can have it has long has they nerf the over head~low or buff netplay. In most online matches it's nigh unblockable.

Online should never be a reason to adjust the real offline game.

 

[THTB]

DD is never going to completely drop out of viability for the simple fact that he blows past zoning so fast and his trait forces every character into mashing d1. Armor while trait is active is a horrible idea. And as much as ES is blockable...be real. When mixed up well enough, good luck blocking it all the time.

Instead of worrying about how he'll turn out in the future, you maximize your DD play. This game has way too much bullshit.

 

[keo-bas]

quite compareing doomdays to everyone else. learned to appreciate and effectively utilise the tools given. I played low tier character for years and know how its like to work with "limitation" untili stopped seeing as limit but as opportunity. If live gives you lemon, make lemonades. If can't cope with doomdays "short commings" than why are you playing him in the first place? find who matches your style and move on.

 

[Bildslash]

Don't you think the character will evolve past gimmicks?

I hope he does. However, the one thing many think he has (frame traps) he really doesn't. I'm not thinking of D+1 xx ES after +frames on block right now because I'm confident people will learn: to backdash it on block, to block it correctly, and to use pushblock.

 

[Metzos]

Didn't know that. I got the game 2-3 days after launch once the day 1 patch was already in effect. I know we can always use D+1 or D+1 xx ES. But I wonder, how long will ES be as effective as it currently is?

Now, would it be that bad to have armor while his trait is active? Aquaman does and he's clearly a powerhouse.

Imo buffing his normals would do him much better good than buffing his trait. His trait is fine, but thats only my opinion.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Online should never be a reason to adjust the real offline game.

Except a huge majority of the people that bought the game play online and don't attend tournaments on a regular basis, if at all.

But as I said, then NRS should better their netcode.

 

[K7L33THA]

I support this thread. He needs it.

 

[Metzos]

DD is never going to completely drop out of viability for the simple fact that he blows past zoning so fast and his trait forces every character into mashing d1. Armor while trait is active is a horrible idea. And as much as ES is blockable...be real. When mixed up well enough, good luck blocking it all the time.

Also this. As i mentioned above, if you mix up your ES in strings that can be interrupted, opponent cannot and will not be able to block them all the time.

 

[Bildslash]

DD is never going to completely drop out of viability for the simple fact that he blows past zoning so fast and his trait forces every character into mashing d1. Armor while trait is active is a horrible idea. And as much as ES is blockable...be real. When mixed up well enough, good luck blocking it all the time.

Instead of worrying about how he'll turn out in the future, you maximize your DD play. This game has way too much bullshit.

quite compare doomdays to every ne else. learned to appreciate and effectivly utilise the tools given. I played low tier charater for years and know how its like work with limitation but that same limitation untill i stoped seeing as limit but as oppurtunity. If live gives you lemon, make lemonades. If can't cope with doomdays "short commings" than why are you playing him in the first place? find who matches your preferances and move on.

I cope with his shortcomings just fine and I'm always working to maximize my gameplay. I'm not crying about him being a bad character. And just like we are telling people to learn and adapt to Deathstroke, the same applies to DD. Learn and adapt, he's not that strong.

REO pointed out something a lot of people here ignore: we have to ask for changes while we can. I know NRS implemented a new hotfix system. Unfortunately, in the real world, once the wave of DLC has passed NRS and WB will move to their next proyect / IP just like they did with MK9.