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Wednesday Night Fights 2013 #2.5 Results

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Administrator
Kouldn't tier whore my way to the top this time! lol.


......Unfortunately I kouldn't make it.
 

The Gabriel

Mean Man
People need to blow up Black Adam divekicks or the match will keep on looking harder than it is. Neutral jump them or just block and punish with D1~special for some characters.

P Board player was using MB interactables to do it too, that was good to see!
lol block and punish divekick...unless he divekicks from further than 2 spaces away (which any good Black Adam will only do) in which case the move in not punishable on block by anyone. Neutral jump punish also is very reliant on the angle/timing of both players.
 

Osirun

www.powerupfighters.org
Regarding a ruleset, this is what I posted over in the "[Discussion] Injustice Tournament Rules?" thread:

IJ:GAU
*Best 2/3 Matches.
*Interactables and Transitions set to ON.
*Random stage select at the start, based on what appears in the Character Select screen's background. Loser can choose from three options: 1) Rematch with current stage and character. 2) Return to Character Select for a new random stage to be selected in the background. 3) Return to Character Select for a new character and a new random stage to be selected in the background.

Best 2/3 matches is a community standard that only changes once a game has proven, over time, that expansion to 3/5 is necessary for whatever collection of reasons. Without enough time in the community, IJ should start out like everything else has.

Interactables and Transitions are also too new for a ban to be considered reasonable. Only if they are proven, over time, to cheapen the competitive experience should they be turned off.

This stage select ruleset is the 8 Way Run standard for Soulcalibur V, which is also a game where stages can heavily favor one character over another, or give a character significant advantages that increase his/her tournament viability. Given that stages in Injustice give similar advantages and disadvantages to different characters, I feel that mirroring the 8 Way Run ruleset is appropriate.

I do not feel that the 50/50 tool is as valuable as a completely random stage selection because if the 50/50 tends to favor one player over another, the player on the losing end can make a good case for an unfair situation. This is because the players were allowed a preference, and limited the options to only 2 out of 29 (when taking into account all levels within the stages). If the stage is selected completely at random, then there is less ability to cry foul because neither player had any say in which of the 29 options the game randomly chose. Even though a random select of the 29 options may consistently favor one player over another, the elimination of player preference that influences the game's random choice makes for a more fair situation overall. This method of random stage select is proven in a similar game (SCV) and that is why I will go with it for my IJ events until further notice.
 

G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
If the loser of the first match picks then they have an unfair advantage going into the second. You shouldn't reward people for losing. There isn't anything wrong with the 50/50. It's not like deathstroke/adam gets any better for deathstroke if he gets ferris. He can just be more annoying.

EDIT: Plus, it's not like only one person can use the stage objects.
I believe this is how almost all fighting games are run. Loser picks stage. Stage counter picking is part of the meta game
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
lol block and punish divekick...unless he divekicks from further than 2 spaces away (which any good Black Adam will only do) in which case the move in not punishable on block by anyone. Neutral jump punish also is very reliant on the angle/timing of both players.
distance doesnt matter, height does.

and the divekicks in the matches were punishable, your point lol?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Distance often determines the height, so yes it does matter.

Every divekick in every Black Adam match was punishable on block? lol...*keeps nodding and walks slowly out of the room*
uh huh, then in that case you can only do safe divekicks from 3 4 screen according to you, ocmpletely disregarding the fact you can do them from almost anywhere but fullscreen

didnt say every, before you nod and gtfo maybe you should pay attention to what you reply to.

now you can gtfo.
 

The Gabriel

Mean Man
didnt say every, before you nod and gtfo maybe you should pay attention to what you reply to.

now you can gtfo.
Ah, the maturity of the average TYMer on full display.

I look forward to you and Greece's other top players dominating the Injustice scene with your awesome knowledge of punishing safe divekicks on block.
 

GGA HAN

Galloping Ghost Arcade
Why is this not the standard? (or is it, everywhere but West Coast)...? Also, 3/5 seems like it should be the standard, as well.

Regarding a ruleset, this is what I posted over in the "[Discussion] Injustice Tournament Rules?" thread:

IJ:GAU
*Best 2/3 Matches.
*Interactables and Transitions set to ON.
*Random stage select at the start, based on what appears in the Character Select screen's background. Loser can choose from three options: 1) Rematch with current stage and character. 2) Return to Character Select for a new random stage to be selected in the background. 3) Return to Character Select for a new character and a new random stage to be selected in the background.

Best 2/3 matches is a community standard that only changes once a game has proven, over time, that expansion to 3/5 is necessary for whatever collection of reasons. Without enough time in the community, IJ should start out like everything else has.

Interactables and Transitions are also too new for a ban to be considered reasonable. Only if they are proven, over time, to cheapen the competitive experience should they be turned off.

This stage select ruleset is the 8 Way Run standard for Soulcalibur V, which is also a game where stages can heavily favor one character over another, or give a character significant advantages that increase his/her tournament viability. Given that stages in Injustice give similar advantages and disadvantages to different characters, I feel that mirroring the 8 Way Run ruleset is appropriate.

I do not feel that the 50/50 tool is as valuable as a completely random stage selection because if the 50/50 tends to favor one player over another, the player on the losing end can make a good case for an unfair situation. This is because the players were allowed a preference, and limited the options to only 2 out of 29 (when taking into account all levels within the stages). If the stage is selected completely at random, then there is less ability to cry foul because neither player had any say in which of the 29 options the game randomly chose. Even though a random select of the 29 options may consistently favor one player over another, the elimination of player preference that influences the game's random choice makes for a more fair situation overall. This method of random stage select is proven in a similar game (SCV) and that is why I will go with it for my IJ events until further notice.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Ah, the maturity of the average TYMer on full display.

I look forward to you and Greece's other top players dominating the Injustice scene with your awesome knowledge of punishing safe divekicks on block.
Criticising my maturity and then going on with snide comments about my scene not even mentioning the original comment of yours lol...

divekicks are only safe depending on where they hit. Most divekicks, from awesomo at least, were not safe, and im not talking about ex obviously. You can argue all you want, fact remains most of the divekicks were punishable and few were safe.
 
Good stuff to pboard and the rest of top 8!

Shout outs to home buttons lol
LEGEND CaliPower

Thought it was funny a female was the culprit that lynch mob would have rushed that shit down in a different way had it been otherwise.

Juggs the east coast needs to step their deathstroke game UP if anything. Sounds like REO is about to make that happen though!
also about DS, we know him, that doesn't mean it will be a free win haha, he is still a solid character and stages play a big part in how good he is as well.
 

Dandy J

i can see all the amine
Thing is, having random stage can be even more off-putting, since you will feel even more unfortunate if someone gets the stage they wanted from the random select.

I think if stages become really powerful, like in the case of DS on ferris or teleport characters on pig stages, a ban/pick system might be the way to go. You'll see this in games such as Quake or Counter-Strike, where the map is the whole game. Basically the IJ equivalent would be something like - each player gets to ban one or a couple stages, then each player gets to pick a stage. The first two matches are played on the two picked stages, then some kind of tie breaker for the last stage if the score is 1-1.
 

sea_guy

Monitor
Thing is, having random stage can be even more off-putting, since you will feel even more unfortunate if someone gets the stage they wanted from the random select.
Why would you feel even more unfortunate? The chances of them getting that stage are very low, and it's actually kind of hype when a player lands on their "best" stage since this will happen ~3.5% of the time instead of 50%. I'd feel much more "unfortunate" to be playing in a tournament where I know my opponent's going to get Atlantis or Ferris half the time. Also, when every stage is in play it means the players can't devote all of their time in training to perfecting the use of one stage - a Deathstroke who plays on Ferris all day is scarier than a Deathstroke who sees that stage once every 30 games.

I mean, it's unfortunate to a degree if my opponent is P2, running Lars/Leo and we randomly end up on the Russian subway stage, but it'd be even more unfortunate if he got to pick this stage 50/50 game 1 or outright just because he lost.
 

Dandy J

i can see all the amine
I'm just using it in the literal sense of the term. You'd have to be way more fortunate to win a 1/29 chance than a 1/2, just like you'd have to be way more unfortunate to lose a 28/29 dice roll.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
West Coast needs to learn the Deathstroke match-up! Good tournament though, where has Chef been? How come he hasn't made top 8 again? Also, what happened to Tyrant after he was sent to losers?
Chef played -- he tried some different characters though, and had a rough run. Tyrant went all Grundy and ended up losing a close match to zoning.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
The only reason I don't like the idea of having a random stage selected is because I absolutely hate those god damn respawnable interactables. It seriously makes the match a lot more random than it should be.
 

Osirun

www.powerupfighters.org
Why is this not the standard? (or is it, everywhere but West Coast)...? Also, 3/5 seems like it should be the standard, as well.
GGA HAN

I also have a general feeling that 3/5 may be where the game is heading due to the high combo damage output and the usage of interactables for dealing sometimes inescapable damage on wakeup. However, I feel it would be prudent to wait until after a few more major events and players have more experience and refinement in their combos and gameplay. If Best 2/3 then starts progressing very fast a conversation about going up to Best 3/5 can begin with good evidence.

Dandy J

Your suggestion for a "ban/pcik" stage select method is also very interesting. We'll see what happens as the game progresses : )
 

G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
What game allows that? what game where stages are important does that?

It's not in SC, TK, or VF, and the stages matter immensely in those games. the loser gets to pick a random stage or keep the same stage.
MK9? I believe loser picks stage in capcom games as well.