Match-up Discussion Aquaman Matchup Discussion

[Hellbringer]

With a wake up attack u can get out too, but it has to be atleast 10 frames. But then again if u delay the mb gs u still get hit.

 

[dabuz]

Batman is annoying, I find myself using j2 to anti air him or I will just away or under him then punish. 3 is also a somewhat decent anti-air because d2 is definitely really hard to land on him.

 

[Name v.5.0]

I just played an "experienced" Green Lantern and it was incredibly frustrating. Every match was the same. He would get life lead and then retreat and fire air bullets at me, the occasional ground bullet, and would use trait + minigun to keep me back. In jump range he was ALWAYS ready with the Lanterns Might.

There were a couple close matches, but I lost every time. Aquaman has an issue with charaters like Superman, or Green Lantern who can jump and fire a diagonal projectiles. There's very little time to come out of block stun and fire off a ground trident.

 

[alexgators1]

You can do the water shield and dash out of it too.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I just played an "experienced" Green Lantern and it was incredibly frustrating. Every match was the same. He would get life lead and then retreat and fire air bullets at me, the occasional ground bullet, and would use trait + minigun to keep me back. In jump range he was ALWAYS ready with the Lanterns Might.

There were a couple close matches, but I lost every time. Aquaman has an issue with charaters like Superman, or Green Lantern who can jump and fire a diagonal projectiles. There's very little time to come out of block stun and fire off a ground trident.

Trade with a trident throw. you get a knockdown and some damage. At least that works with GL, i have no superman exp yet.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Trade with a trident throw. you get a knockdown and some damage. At least that works with GL, i have no superman exp yet.

There was no trade. I thought of that. His jump is just high enough get over it. And then you eat air bullets. Every now and then you'll hit him, but to me it seems like he always has life lead and that equals death. As of right now I'd say this is a 6-4 in favor of GL.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

There was no trade. I thought of that. His jump is just high enough get over it. And then you eat air bullets. Every now and then you'll hit him, but to me it seems like he always has life lead and that equals death. As of right now I'd say this is a 6-4 in favor of GL.

Delay the throw until the last possible moment, I know it works I tested it.

 

[KowtowRobinson]

What do you guys think about Aquaman vs. Raven? Yesterday I ran into a decent Raven and was getting my butt handed to me because IDK the MU. It felt like every time I tried to do something I would get gravity squeezed and her pressure was hard to deal with.

I've played this matchup more with GL than with Aquaman, but with the grab, she's minus a lot after. Test to see if you get a free seismo first. If not, use the advantage to dash in after block.

Eventually you want to get up in her shit and boss her around. She can't handle pressure all that well.

 

[dabuz]

I've played this matchup more with GL than with Aquaman, but with the grab, she's minus a lot after. Test to see if you get a free seismo first. If not, use the advantage to dash in after block.

Eventually you want to get up in her shit and boss her around. She can't handle pressure all that well.

Yeah, this has been working a lot better for me.

The one other MU I can't seem to figure out is Grundy, I feel like the character just pushes my **** in no matter what I do.

 

[Chengler]

Staff nightwing. Help

 

[Ben Reed]

Couple punishment tips for Aquaman mirror:

- blocked d+2 punishes include b+12 (if you blocked it at max range), d+2, and 22. The timing is kinda tricky to punish with 22, though; if you're a little too slow you'll miss the punish and the opponent will duck the standing 2. d+2 will float on 1st hit if the opponent has trait up, but the float will be very short, so you'll have to walk forward half a step and do b+12 to pick up. b+1 is the most consistent punish for getting a full combo, if trait isn't an issue.

- blocked b+2 (by itself) can be punished with d+1~splash or d+2 into full combo.

- blocked DB+1 can be punished by b+1 or reversal DB+1 if you're a little too far out for b+1.

- blocked DB+2 can be punished ANYWHERE ON SCREEN by reversal DB+2. This is something that EVERYBODY should know and practice, if you don't already. Conveniently, it also beats trait because it floats on 1st hit.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Black Adam matchup:

I believe Aquaman is at a disadvantage in this matchup as well. His dive kick is only punishable if he hits you high and even then you can only punish with F1. A smart Black Adam will also wait for ground trident and punish with lightning bolt. Don't just throw out tridents...

You have to fight up close and stay on him. Found that I won more if I went in with unsafe moves with trait as my backup plan.

Just don't let him get full screen or you'll eat shit for days.

 

[dabuz]

Staff nightwing. Help

As someone who secondaries the character, I can tell you that this is one of AM's more annoying MUs.

You CANNOT check with from the deep or trident throw because Nightwing can always punish that with his staff spark (or w/e it's called, db2), so long range combat is completely a waste of time.

At mid range you can try to play very precise with spacing and footsies, but NW's staff has almost as much range as AM, so any errors in spacing will leave AM to get poked and stuffed pretty hard because NW's attacks at that range have faster startup, luckily AM has about twice as much damage output on his attacks.

What this means if you want to play a close range game, NW's only strong and safe CQC option with staff is d1 which is easy to predict. Get into b12 range and go for mixups then keep the pressure on NW. You want to force resets since NW has trouble dealing with those because he doesn't have any reliable character specific options. Getting in that close to NW just takes one good read at mid range and the damage output difference is stacked in AM's favor.

 

[Vagrant]

if you can bait and assault rifle at mid range

Any Deathstroke that uses this move, especially mid screen. Is nowhere near capable of basing MU numbers off of.

 

[Ben Reed]

Some basic punishes vs. Wonder Woman:

- blocked lasso spin (lasso DB+3): d+1~DB+2 or d+2 will punish. Not sure in what situations you might end up blocking this move, but it's good to know.

- blocked Amazonian Uppercut (lasso DF+3): Anti-air b+3 -> combo will get you 45% for one stock.

- A gimmicky string one of the local WW players does as part of his 50/50 is (lasso stance) b+2~DF+1 (lasso grab) hoping for a hit confirm on a random b+2 hit.

Your first impression if you've ever fought a good WW is probably "hot damn, there's a gigantic gap there, and you can duck the lasso, too!". But it's not quite as free as it looks, unfortunately.

You can't do anything really fun like MB b+3 punish during the gap because there's too much blockstun from the b+2. If you block the lasso grab, WW is pushed back too far for a d+1 (or even d+2!) punish, and b+1 is too slow after blocked lasso grab. At the same time, you're pushed back too far for a d+1 or d+2 by the WW b+2 alone.

So your only real chance for punishment on this gimmicky string is this: block the overhead, duck the lasso spin (easy), and whiff punish with b+12~splash or DB+1 (often happens accidentally depending on your control scheme + duck timing). The whiff punish is surprisingly tight because while the lasso grab has few active frames to hit you with, its recovery time is surprisingly short on whiff. You have to flash duck a la Tekken and do b+1 as soon as Aquaman's standing again in order to hit the lasso grab recovery.

...And of course this information is all dependent on the WW player not discovering/knowing about/deciding to use b+2,3 instead, and evading all chance of punishment. :-/

That's all the bare-bones stuff I have right now. Now I have to figure out how to consistently IAD with her on stick so that I can program mixups from IAD/ low AD crossup 2, lol.

EDIT: Brief note on defending against WW IAD/low AD 2:

Midscreen vs IAD/low AD 2, pushblock is your buddy. Crossup or frontal, pushes WW WAY the hell away from you so that you can space yourself for d+2 or to punish a dash in on reaction. Just be sure to MASH the hell out of MB when you confirm a block because she drops FAST and there's NOT a lot of blockstun on her jump 2.

In the CORNER, however, if she crosses you up with IAD 2, pushblock will NOT push you away from WW. AT ALL. I have no idea whether you're at punishable disadvantage if that pushblock situation occurs or not. (I dunno if the game enforces neutral on a pushblock, or puts the defender at negative.) But on the upside, at least SHE'S in the corner and YOU'RE not.

 

[Whackojack]

So over the past few days I've fought a number of Black Adams and it seems like all they have to do is dive kicks. Is there any way to punish him for this or is it just something I'll have to deal with. This MU alone has seriously made me consider just dropping IGAU and going back to MK

EDIT: Mod, please change title to Please Help on Black Adam MU (ONLINE)
I was a dick for a lot of this thread, I fully admit that beforehand and apologize to any and all people involved.

UPDATED INFO: This is a few ways I was given to deal with BAs Foot Dive, in no particular order:

-Full Screen: When BA jumps, react with a back jump, BA apparently doesn't have much recourse for this.
-When BA jumps, start charging B3, if foot dive ensues MB and punish. If they don't foot dive dash forward/backward and act accordingly
-On block: D1 xx DB1 can punish
-D2 on reaction and catch him before his food dive hits you (I'm having a lot of trouble timing this one)

All good advice that I was too stubborn to appreciate earlier, thank you very much to:

Qwark28
Joker8417
Vulcan Hades
Eshi
REO

 

[Qwark28]

Divekicks, if not instant or EX are punishable by your B12.

What exactly is frustrating you about it?

 

[Whackojack]

Divekicks, if not instant or EX are punishable by your B12.

What exactly is frustrating you about it?

Okay that's what I thought, Online it's extremely difficult to punish and there's no local scene around me so really I can play online or not at all. And with the input lag it's very difficult to punish on reaction. I tried playing offline with a friend yesterday and I couldn't even carry a combo because of how early I input the commands because I was used to the (near 10 frame) input lag online

 

[Qwark28]

Okay that's what I thought, Online it's extremely difficult to punish and there's no local scene around me so really I can play online or not at all. And with the input lag it's very difficult to punish on reaction. I tried playing offline with a friend yesterday and I couldn't even carry a combo because of how early I input the commands because I was used to the (near 10 frame) input lag online

Its most likely not the input lag.

99% of people who go up against Black Adam have no idea how little the blockstun of the divekick really is.

I suggest going to practice mode, recording divekicks at different heights, noting the blockstun and trying to punish them with B12 or even uppercut.

 

[Whackojack]

Its most likely not the input lag.

99% of people who go up against Black Adam have no idea how little the blockstun of the divekick really is.

I suggest going to practice mode, recording divekicks at different heights, noting the blockstun and trying to punish them with B12 or even uppercut.

No, I am fully aware of it's punishablility, I just can't seem to do it online at all. Every single BA I fight just dive kicks repeatedly and I've tried MANY different ways to try and punish online, all that seems to "work" is water shield bursting before he hits :\

 

[Name v.5.0]

Okay that's what I thought, Online it's extremely difficult to punish and there's no local scene around me so really I can play online or not at all. And with the input lag it's very difficult to punish on reaction. I tried playing offline with a friend yesterday and I couldn't even carry a combo because of how early I input the commands because I was used to the (near 10 frame) input lag online

That's not entirely true. If BA does the dive kick low enough you cant punish with B12. I sat there in practice mode for like an hour just letting BA dive kick me over and over. You cant consistently punish it, but you will however lock him down if he blocks. The real problem comes from when he immediately jumps backwards. You will have no recourse for this.

Also. Dont just randomly throw tridents or ground tridents. If he's waiting for them, he'll block and punish your ass.

 

[Briggs8417]

Aquaman is a character who has an easier time with dive kicks than most for a couple of reasons:

1) If you know the dive kick is coming, you can uppercut it easy for full combo.

2) You have a couple of punishes on dive kicks that are unsafe with uppercut and b1 2 and both grant you full combos.

Once Adam starts respecting the fact that he has to be careful with his dive kicks, if he wants to come in he is going to have to deal with your amazing normals.

 

[Whackojack]

^

That's not entirely true. If BA does the dive kick low enough you cant punish with B12. I sat there in practice mode for like an hour just letting BA dive kick me over and over. You cant consistently punish it, but you will however lock him down if he blocks. The real problem comes from when he immediately jumps backwards. You will have no recourse for this.

Also. Dont just randomly throw tridents or ground tridents. If he's waiting for them, he'll block and punish your ass.

^this, jump backwards is what kills me

 

[Name v.5.0]

Aquaman is a character who has an easier time with dive kicks than most for a couple of reasons:

1) If you know the dive kick is coming, you can uppercut it easy for full combo.

2) You have a couple of punishes on dive kicks that are unsafe with uppercut and b1 2 and both grant you full combos.

Once Adam starts respecting the fact that he has to be careful with his dive kicks, if he wants to come in he is going to have to deal with your amazing normals.

This is exactly it. You gotta force him to make surgical dive kicks. Get in his face and destroy him, your inside game is better than his and don't forget you got the almighty trait backing you up

 

[Hatake Osawa]

As long as the BA you're facing doesn't crouch block on reaction when you do your B12, then you're open to attack. Same scenario, but if they don't crouch block and block mid, or high and you attack them that way. You're going to get punish for it. It's just a matter of reaction and reading your opponent. Nothing has to be touched on BA's dive kick, but for people like you to react on it and say it needs to be nerfed for whatever reason. It doesn't. Why Bill aka Tom had our discussion about why MK9 became a horrible game because characters kept getting either buffed, or nerfed in ways it shouldn't. Just need to go into training mode with the character and learn the MU's better. Plain and simple.

Rage quitting is not going to help you and certainly not help your ego get any better. Some ways I can't apologize to you in my message I sent you on XBL cause I've come across many of them in this game within the two weeks that have done that. Not any different from MK, either. Online is online and offline is offline. Period.