Match-up Discussion Raven Matchup Discussion

[KH_Seraph]

Well I'm basing things off of people that know Raven to a certain extent. ie: the people I play with.
I don't like basing my tactics on the chance that the opponent doesn't understand the match up.

Singularity changes to a kompetely different move in Demon Stance unlike Soul Krush.

Uhh, isn't that what we all do? lol. Like I haven't been playing with the other KH people for the past couple weeks. >_>

 

[Villest1]

Can you reflect the stupid overhead Rock thing and the lockdown move from the ground?

From my time testing it in the lab it doesn't seem to be.


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[Red Reaper]

Uhh, isn't that what we all do? lol. Like I haven't been playing with the other KH people for the past couple weeks. >_>

The reason I said that was because you said: "I wouldn't say it's unwise unless you're up against a player who knows the Raven MU well."

My point was that it's irrelevant if you're going against a player that doesn't know how to play well.

 

[Villest1]

I'm not exactly a super insightful person when it comes to fighting games but I will offer what I find nonetheless. Hopefully at least a couple people will find it helpful.

DOOMSDAY
-Earth shake, Upward venom(Not regular Venom), Air snatch(air grab) Are all punishable on block by F222.
-Super nova Punishable by b3 or f3 meter burn on reaction. However Im pretty sure you still take grey damage from the hit that is absorbed. So be careful. Also if they could potentially bait you out and do regular super nova even if they are not in range just to make you waste a bar.

I came across the previous tactic in the Doomsday forum in an post by Reo I believe.
Here's the full write up. It has general info about how to deal with Doomsdays offense. Worth a read.
testyourmight.com/threads/defending-against-doomsdays-offense.30165/

CATWOMAN
-Cat dash can be punished on block with f222.

THE FLASH
-Lightning charge and speed charge(Super) can be punished on block with f222.

DEATHSTROKE
-Sword spin can be punished with F222 on block or soul crush if you prefer(though punishing with soul crush is tougher to time online) . I find this pretty easy to bait out by just dashing in 1 or 2 times after I land a df2. A lot of times they just panic and throw it out on wake up. Easy DMG.
-machine gun is punishable on block by df2(soul crush). As long as your in range for soul crush then machine guns are punishable. The meter burn version does not seem to be punishable.
-quick fire also seems to be punishable by soul crush but not at max range like machine guns. It is much more range dependent. I suggest hitting the lab with this one before trying it in a real match. Again meter version doesn't seem punishable.

Reo also wrote a great article on dealing with Deathstrokes zoning. Definitely definitely worth a read.
testyourmight.com/threads/dealing-with-deathstrokes-zoning.30055/

ARES
- If they are teleport happy you can punish them with throw on reaction.
(Theres probably a more efficient punish but I need to hit the lab some more to be sure.)
-God Smack (unblockable) can be punished by a meter burn 3 just like Doomsdays Super Nova. However it's a little more tricky with Ares because he can alter his trajectory by holding back, forward or using meter burn.

The reason I chose f222 to be the punish of choice is because as far as I know it's the most damaging combo starter and it is mostly if not completely safe on block(maybe not safe against fast supers like supermans). It's possible there are more efficient punishes for each given scenario.

Again please be aware that these are just the observations of an average player. I will continue to share my findings in hopes that they help someone.

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[3DPK]

I was playing Nightwing, in normal stance, he jumps in and throws his air projectiles as I'm lifting. Lift hits and holds him in the air as his projectiles knock me out before I can slam him to the ground. So what do I do? I jump up and combo him. It's just like the full screen lift when you get hit with a projectile, only you don't have to be in demon stance. I was giddy.

 

[Owerbart]

Any tips against green lantern? His low B1 seems to have the most insulting phantom hitbox on Raven.

 

[vegeta]

What are people's opinions on the Green Lantern match-up? A good Green Lantern feels like Raven's hard counter to me. His full screen zoneing seems to be a lot better than hers. It's hard to catch him with anything when he does his jumping missile if he's smart. Once you get into mid range it becomes even worse. His force grab move seems to always win against Raven's. It has longer range as well and can punish her d,f M on block from mid screen. There's a very small area on the screen where Raven benfits over Green Lantern and the rest of the screen just feels like Green Lantern owns it.

Funny you should say that, a friend of mine plays GL so with the help of two well known players that came into town for the Civil War Major, I learned this matchup pretty fast. Basically what I tend to do is reflect the "Oa's rocket If they jump and do an air "Oa's rocket" I can reflect and immediately throw out a soul crush to "check" them. If they block, they just block, if they attempt to do anything else at all, they get soul crushed. some of his strings (for example the low sweep into that uppercut, forgot the notation) can be checked with the singularity as well. As far as I know he can't punish the lift. The dude I was playing tried ot punish singularity with GL's lift and couldn't do it, nor do a string point blank range as I blocked them. I use a lot of b23 and b12(into throw) or b123(if they try to interrupt me) to get him off of me. I try to stay around 3/4 of the screen against him. I think the matchup is made much easier since she has the reflect/check or at times if they want to crouch block most of my "soul crush checks" after I reflect I actually EX it and do the overhead fireball into a free Soul Crush or EX soul Crush as with a quick enough dash I get a small combo. Just for starters when at range.

Up close I do basic things, my main objective being to back him off. I love 223, has a natural delay that cannot be interrupted, if they do...free launcher into combo that I typically end with b23 to make distance again. that or I'll do 22(throw since they expect 3) or 22 (cancel into ff+meter burn for overhead 3), rinse, repeat.

 

[vegeta]

if i notice soul crush will whiff if they jump in because they are too close, then i just use singularity. It usually grabs them.
Ive had more success with it hitting then getting hit myself.

Yeah, Singularity has a hitbox that extends to just about the top left of her head. if they opponent is above me or even VERY slightly above and past me she'll still lift them.

 

[THTB]

Any tips against green lantern? His low B1 seems to have the most insulting phantom hitbox on Raven.

b1 is so awesome. Active for days, and godly hitbox.

 

[BlackHammer]

it seems like your opponent only needs to crouch in order to block all of my combos/strings. is there any way to start a combo on a ducking opponent?

 

[Connor Phoenix]

it seems like your opponent only needs to crouch in order to block all of my combos/strings. is there any way to start a combo on a ducking opponent?

F3

 

[Spinky]

OK. I am officially going on a Superman killing spree. I just faced a Supes player who spammed his normal and MB air lasers for like 90% of the match. I absorbed/reflected what I could but I stuffed it up a couple of times because there was a tiny bit of lag (either that or my timing was off... or both). So eventually there's about ten seconds left, we're both very low on health but I had a tiny bit more, and I was just gonna try and absorb all of his lasers for a time-out win, since I had no meter to reflect it. He throws out two lasers, I absorb them both, he throws out another one, I stuff the absorb up due to lag, timing or whatever and he wins. The dude won with literally ONE SECOND left of the match and the TINIEST sliver of health, and well, I'm pissed as fuck. So yeah, any advice for facing the Big Blue Boy Scout would be appreciated. Gonna make it my mission to transform my Raven into the Kryptonite for every Supes out there.

 

[3DPK]

I get bopped by Superman. His air dash goes over my grabs, but good to know I can absorb his lasers. My problem is the guy I play that uses him has mad rush down and spams 112 with the high low mix up.

 

[kabelfritz]

OK. I am officially going on a Superman killing spree. I just faced a Supes player who spammed his normal and MB air lasers for like 90% of the match. I absorbed/reflected what I could but I stuffed it up a couple of times because there was a tiny bit of lag (either that or my timing was off... or both). So eventually there's about ten seconds left, we're both very low on health but I had a tiny bit more, and I was just gonna try and absorb all of his lasers for a time-out win, since I had no meter to reflect it. He throws out two lasers, I absorb them both, he throws out another one, I stuff the absorb up due to lag, timing or whatever and he wins. The dude won with literally ONE SECOND left of the match and the TINIEST sliver of health, and well, I'm pissed as fuck. So yeah, any advice for facing the Big Blue Boy Scout would be appreciated. Gonna make it my mission to transform my Raven into the Kryptonite for every Supes out there.

block one and dash in so he cant air-laser you again. also, jumping over one, go demon stance mid air and punish further attempts with df1 works.

 

[Spinky]

block one and dash in so he cant air-laser you again. also, jumping over one, go demon stance mid air and punish further attempts with df1 works.

...Oh. -.-

 

[Connor Phoenix]

OK. I am officially going on a Superman killing spree. I just faced a Supes player who spammed his normal and MB air lasers for like 90% of the match. I absorbed/reflected what I could but I stuffed it up a couple of times because there was a tiny bit of lag (either that or my timing was off... or both). So eventually there's about ten seconds left, we're both very low on health but I had a tiny bit more, and I was just gonna try and absorb all of his lasers for a time-out win, since I had no meter to reflect it. He throws out two lasers, I absorb them both, he throws out another one, I stuff the absorb up due to lag, timing or whatever and he wins. The dude won with literally ONE SECOND left of the match and the TINIEST sliver of health, and well, I'm pissed as fuck. So yeah, any advice for facing the Big Blue Boy Scout would be appreciated. Gonna make it my mission to transform my Raven into the Kryptonite for every Supes out there.

When he jumps to laser jump also and use demon form to evade. Next time he jumps teleport behind him for a full punish.

 

[Connor Phoenix]

I'm getting so fed up with Batman. Raven literally has no answers to any of his bullshit. None of her moves work as an anti air to his J2, it's just a joke. I honestly think it's like 7-3 in Batman's favour, maybe worse.

 

[801 Vegeta]

D2 anti air online is not reliable. Especially against Batman. The best option if you read the jump is to walk back slightly then soul crush.

 

[Connor Phoenix]

D2 anti air online is not reliable. Especially against Batman. The best option if you read the jump is to walk back slightly then soul crush.

His jump 2 is too good though. I can anti-air terrible Batman players who jump from miles away but anyone with a brain will only jump within his J2 range and then she literally has no anti-air for him. Her mobility is just way too low to deal with Batman's pressure.

 

[vegeta]

it seems like your opponent only needs to crouch in order to block all of my combos/strings. is there any way to start a combo on a ducking opponent?

If people duck on me too much, I pay attention to when they try to attack. If they wait for the entire string to be over and I have meter I ff cancel into meter burn overhead 3. Example: I'll do f22, ff(meter burn) and it pops them for a free combo. That or you can throw. I love the 223 string because it has a slight delay so they always try to interrupt (which they cannot) and it ends up launching them. The most simple way to try to get them out of crouch blocking all day without meter is to stop a string short and then throw. worst case, they over anticipate the throw they THINK is coming after a while, then you finish the string. it's 50/50 unless they can break throws, but even then a string will hit them if they let go of block. My main goal though outright is to stay at around 3/4 of the screen, so even if I see they block strings, I try to do the ones that push back a bit like b23 or b123.

 

[kabelfritz]

played a lot of black adam matches again. really tough match but i did best when i got aggresssive and used demon stance a lot. you gotta be jumpy first to punish his low zoning attacks, once he stops it you should dash and attempt jump-ins/crossups cause his anti-air is really bad. mixing up with throws is always good. use demon stance at fullscreen to mix up full-screen-pressure/getting in straightforward and teleport. f222 after a blocked divekick. do NOT let him corner you, pushblock as soon as youre there.

 

[Connor Phoenix]

I usually use db2 if he jumps because it's quick enough to recover if he just lands and uses a projectile but if he uses dive kick you pull him right out of it.

 

[Sami]

vs. Doomsday's Supernova (i.e. Sheeva on steroids):

D2, Singularity and Soul Crush will not anti-air. All 3 very occasionally trade if timed perfectly (i.e. you will never do this so don't try). The only real safe option is b3 MB which will give you a full combo. If you don't want to use more than one bar (including the b3) then: b3 MB, ji3, f222~db2 for 33% (30% if you use the easier ji2). Check combo thread as there may be higher ones.

Near Negative Mass (i.e. ground pillers in demon form) will AA him if timed right. Timing is easier than than the ones above (i.e. it's actually possible), but still ridiculously difficult. And seeing as you'll probably want to MB it for a combo anyway, just use d3 MB.

Behind Dark Transmission (i.e. rear teleport in demon form) will beat regular and MB Supernova. For regular the timing is dead easy (the earlier the better really). For MB, you need to wait until he is on his way down before doing it. Any earlier and it will home into your teleported location. Once Doomsday is on his way down he won't change course. This will require a fair bit of practice to get the timing right.

If the player uses Supernova from a long distance, he is either a) going to meter burn it so it homes in you (normal Supernova has a very short range) or b) is baiting you to try and waste a bar of meter thinking a) is going to happen. Dashing forward reliably beats MB Supernova providing he's on the way down (see Dark Transmission above), so if you see Doomsday do it from range save your meter and just dash; you'll be able to full combo punish him when he lands anyway.

 

[Dark_Ky]

i am having huge issues (especially) vs bane and grundy. these chars simply blow me up with their armor and i dont think that raven has the tools to defend against them (specials only have 1 hit, f,2,2,2 works vs bane but grundy simply goes through with his grab, yeah i know nj2 but still). bane simply ownes me upclose, wakeup and mid~fullscreen (fucking venom charge, is it safe against raven? seems like it).

i realise that these matchups have to be played with far more patients than others but i would like to know ur advises against those 2.

 

[vegeta]

I'm actually beginning to get wrecked by GL and I lost a tournament yesterday to TWO aquamen. It seems their speed up close and ravens slow dash is getting me killed when I try to run back to her preferred distance. GL actually tries to say out of range of Soul Crush and spams all day, or gets in my face and uses some of the faster strings. Her b12 is so short range when I try to go low that it whiffs a lot. I'm noticing as time goes on her speed or lack of it, is starting to become a serious issue. I may just be doing it wrong but I'm starting to see some characters are straight overpowering now.