How to practice proper frame traps

[Zyphox]

one of my gripes about fighting someone is getting them into a frame trap, and you know they will either jumpout or poke out and almost not being able to do anything about it. well i noticed something about block stun in this game, it is different for every move. so how do you know when to just frame a "frame" trap? by practice duh, and with injustice and the reversal system in training mode you can practice just frame trapping all day

 

[Bildslash]

Using reversals to practice small advantage frame traps is not a good idea (e.g. Flash's B+2 2).

Reversals come out before a normal attack would because they have a special window.

 

[Zyphox]

Using reversals to practice small advantage frame traps is not a good idea (e.g. Flash's B+2 2).

Reversals come out before a normal attack would because they have a special window.

really? where was this stated or you just know? then if you were right how would i then hit him out of the reversal when its a 6frame move and a 5 frame gap? that would seem to me like no advantage or special window for reversal, or are you saying that if it were like only plus one with a 7frame gap that not even a 6 frame jab would stop me?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Reversals come out on the first available frame, just like a regular just-frame attack would. The 'window' is only for buffering; the attack doesn't actually come out early.

 

[Bildslash]

All I know is that it isn't reliable. Human error aside reversals seem to have some degree of priority.

Let's remember this is an NRS game. There are already in place some obvious leftovers from MK9 like Stance Change. In MK9 specials have priority over normals. Moreover we know frame data for multiple hits is wrong; Flash's B+2 2 could very well be much less than +3.

Also block stun is weird in this game. For instance, some projectiles (e.g. Sinestro's) recover slower on block than if they had whiffed. That makes no sense, the defending character should receive reduced blockstun instead of the attacker getting more recovery.

This goes to tell you about the problems we'll have once they start tweaking with frames.

 

[Ninj]

In MK9 specials have priority over normals.

Not really a true statement.

That said, videos would help prove your point. Since the game is so new people may look at this and question the validity of what you're saying as you're making definitive statements without backing it up with anything we can all see.

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[CrimsonShadow]

I regularly stuff reversals out with normals in practice mode.

 

[Bildslash]

Not really a true statement.

That said, videos would help prove your point. Since the game is so new people may look at this and question the validity of what you're saying as you're making definitive statements without backing it up with anything we can all see.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Since when specials don't have priority in MK9? Wasn't it discovered by Somberness?

I reckon I might be wrong about the reversals topic. I don't have the means to test and record this down to the frame. I could make a simple video but would be useless for either side of the argument because human error on execution is something we can't get rid off.

The other things I said are true. Frame data for multiple hits is wrong and block stun / recovery in some instances behave in a weird manner.

 

[DJ L Toro]

All I know is that it isn't reliable. Human error aside reversals seem to have some degree of priority.

Let's remember this is an NRS game. There are already in place some obvious leftovers from MK9 like Stance Change. In MK9 specials have priority over normals. Moreover we know frame data for multiple hits is wrong; Flash's B+2 2 could very well be much less than +3.

Also block stun is weird in this game. For instance, some projectiles (e.g. Sinestro's) recover slower on block than if they had whiffed. That makes no sense, the defending character should receive reduced blockstun instead of the attacker getting more recovery.

This goes to tell you about the problems we'll have once they start tweaking with frames.

zomg stance change.

 

[Bildslash]

zomg stance change.

ZOMG you can uppercut Kung Lao twice with Stryker during EX Tele, right?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

That doesn't have much to do with the topic of this thread though.. Zyphox' post is actually correct. So probably best not to clutter it with random grumblings.

 

[DJ L Toro]

ZOMG you can uppercut Kung Lao twice with Stryker during EX Tele, right?

that's not a feature that got carried over

 

[Bildslash]

That doesn't have much to do with the topic of this thread though.. Zyphox' post is actually correct. So probably best not to clutter it with random grumblings.

You're right my apologies.

In any case, if Zyphox couldn't get the B+2 2 frame trap to work is likely due to the frame data being wrong.

 

[Zyphox]

All I know is that it isn't reliable. Human error aside reversals seem to have some degree of priority.

Let's remember this is an NRS game. There are already in place some obvious leftovers from MK9 like Stance Change. In MK9 specials have priority over normals. Moreover we know frame data for multiple hits is wrong; Flash's B+2 2 could very well be much less than +3.

Also block stun is weird in this game. For instance, some projectiles (e.g. Sinestro's) recover slower on block than if they had whiffed. That makes no sense, the defending character should receive reduced blockstun instead of the attacker getting more recovery.

This goes to tell you about the problems we'll have once they start tweaking with frames.

i can see where you are coming from, but no doubt human error, if you realize what your frame trap looks like more than likely you will get it to connect, and when they said multiple hit being wrong, i was assuming it was something like doomsday ground stomp or deathstroke bullets. also if i could regularly punish the cpu on reversal it would make it more likely that my frametraps would be true in an offline environment. i believe we should take advantage of this, get down to the frame and allow no escape. also with the sinestro thing, make sense of this would it make sense that you could repeat the same move on block faster while doing chip damage or wiffing and recovering faster, as it is sinestro is "nerfed" LOL so making him safe on a wiffed projectile may save him from total annihilation right Pig Of The Hut

 

[Zyphox]

You're right my apologies.

In any case, if Zyphox couldn't get the B+2 2 frame trap to work is likely due to the frame data being wrong.

i got it to work its just that my timing was off, that why we need this to practice it, who's to say down the line that some diago "the beast unleashed" just comes in, picks up that flash and starts to reversal everyone on these so called frame traps, if we practice it now this would never happen.

 

[ceemurda]

really? where was this stated or you just know? then if you were right how would i then hit him out of the reversal when its a 6frame move and a 5 frame gap? that would seem to me like no advantage or special window for reversal, or are you saying that if it were like only plus one with a 7frame gap that not even a 6 frame jab would stop me?

Yeah its strange but they teach that in the tutorial so far it works better than trying to punishing the good old sf way because I usually get my normal stuffed by a masher... I main cyborg btw so I use his d,f+2 to special punish

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[Gin Tronic]

I don´t understand the reversal mechanic, in the tutorial it is used for punishing a special but this isn´t a reversal, it´s a punish.

back to frametrap

Somebody asked Tom Brady: "what makes Nightwing so scary?" and he answered "Blocktraps". This was a little bit confusing to me but it seems that NRS makes a difference between a frametrap and a blocktrap. For me, a frametrap is a blockstring with advantage on block and if the opponent is pressing buttons, he is caught by the follow up. Nightwing in staff seems to have such kind of frametrap. In the past days I haven´t checked a char for proper frametraps (onblock), the pushback on certain moves is hugh and you need to dash, 11X for a follow up is useless, cause first hit whiffs on crouching. But on hit, there are a lot of strings, which the opponent can´t interrupt with a D+1 (respectivly his fastest normal) if you input a follow up (no specialcancel). Maybe i am totaly wrong but it works quite often for me. The opponent thinks the 3 hit string is over, now it´s my turn and he is caught but in my understanding this isn´t a frametrap.

 

[ceemurda]

So many nightwings online now I use to love that character the same way I use to love the flash. Makes me cry...

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[Zyphox]

i don't quite understand reversals myself either, colt is a reversal simply a just frame punish with a special or is there more to this?

 

[colt]

i don't quite understand reversals myself either, colt is a reversal simply a just frame punish with a special or is there more to this?

yep, thats all it is, special done on the 1st frame coming out of block/hit reaction.

 

[Zyphox]

yep, thats all it is, special done on the 1st frame coming out of block/hit reaction.

thank you so much this clears up alot great work on lobo btw

 

[ceemurda]

i don't quite understand reversals myself either, colt is a reversal simply a just frame punish with a special or is there more to this?

the fucked up thing about frame traps in this game is every character can reverse it with a special... During a player match against the most unplayed character in the game batman(joke) dude was abusing his 1,1,3 string which is plus 3 on block... I noticed that by my meter gauge two words flashing under my emblem...it said "special window" so I did cyborg's sonic blast move and interrupted his string... I also tried mashing a normal in that same window and I got bopped so idk .. Guess nrs got hidden reversal for every character?

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[Zyphox]

the fucked up thing about frame traps in this game is every character can reverse it with a special... During a player match against the most unplayed character in the game batman(joke) dude was abusing his 1,1,3 string which is plus 3 on block... I noticed that by my meter gauge two words flashing under my emblem...it said "special window" so I did cyborg's sonic blast move and interrupted his string... I also tried mashing a normal in that same window and I got bopped so idk .. Guess nrs got hidden reversal for every character?

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i tired this and i couldn't find where it said "special window", i also know 113 is interuptable by 6frame d1's but cyborg doesnt have one. if you could take a picture of this special window i would appreciate it. i also tried to do specials in between, also didn't work.

 

[ceemurda]

i tired this and i couldn't find where it said "special window", i also know 113 is interuptable by 6frame d1's but cyborg doesnt have one. if you could take a picture of this special window i would appreciate it. i also tried to do specials in between, also didn't work.

Sure .. It will be a minute though because I unplugged my dog shyt dazzle card but im trying to learn this games odd combo chain system so I can actually start making shazam a threat again the big 4 (dickstroke, green lantern, aquaboy, and superlame)..

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[Vulcan Hades]

From my experience in practice mode some reversals (all of them?) have ZERO priority/invincibility.

Like if you do any string that puts you at +1/+2, you can just mash 1/d1 and it will blow up Lex's Corp Charge for example. It's not like SF where all forms of reversals have the same invincibility.