Guide Azarath, Metrion, Zinthos -- Raven General Discussion Thread

[GLoRToR]

I don't have the game yet, but I'm intending to buy it in the upcoming months.
(I have a bunch of work and whatnot to finish before I'd have time for anything.)

Mr. Mileena
Espio

Questions:
1. How does Raven play?
1.a. How is her upclose game, what is the nature of her normals, does she have any mixups?
1.b. How is her keepout and get-in game?
1.c. Which one does she favour, if at all?
1.d. Is she a dominant character or an adapting character?

2. Who are Raven's hardest matchups?
2.a. Does she struggle uphill against anyone? How, and what are her tools?
2.b. Does she absolutely destroy any specific play styles? How?
2.c. How is her comeback game?
2.d. Can she snowball (suddenly burst down the opponent)?

3. Raven's properties
3.a. How is her damage in relation to the rest of the cast?
3.b. How are her normals in relation to the rest of the cast?
3.c. Is she safe?
3.d. Is she fast on her feet, is she stationary or mobile?

4. Is she execution heavy or braindead?
4.a. If inbetween, where does one need to do work and what are her free options?
4.b. If either, how does that work?

 

[Espio]

I'm not the man to ask, I dropped Raven for Hawkgirl before I acquired a good understanding of her, but I will tag a quality player who knows her to help you out, I would tag Mr. Mileena as well, but you already got him covered.

zaf

I don't have the game yet, but I'm intending to buy it in the upcoming months.
(I have a bunch of work and whatnot to finish before I'd have time for anything.)

Mr. Mileena
Espio

Questions:
1. How does Raven play?
1.a. How is her upclose game, what is the nature of her normals, does she have any mixups?
1.b. How is her keepout and get-in game?
1.c. Which one does she favour, if at all?
1.d. Is she a dominant character or an adapting character?

2. Who are Raven's hardest matchups?
2.a. Does she struggle uphill against anyone? How, and what are her tools?
2.b. Does she absolutely destroy any specific play styles? How?
2.c. How is her comeback game?
2.d. Can she snowball (suddenly burst down the opponent)?


3. Raven's properties
3.a. How is her damage in relation to the rest of the cast?
3.b. How are her normals in relation to the rest of the cast?
3.c. Is she safe?
3.d. Is she fast on her feet, is she stationary or mobile?

4. Is she execution heavy or braindead?
4.a. If inbetween, where does one need to do work and what are her free options?
4.b. If either, how does that work?

My opinion? She seems like she's a good, patient character with solid counterzoning qualities, she can punish a lot of blocked ranged options due to the incredible range of soul crush. Back 1,2,3 has a low thrown in there.


Her damage is about what you'd expect from most characters.

Not much else I can add because I didn't spend much time with her, hope my minor feedback helps.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I don't have the game yet, but I'm intending to buy it in the upcoming months.
(I have a bunch of work and whatnot to finish before I'd have time for anything.)

Mr. Mileena
Espio

Questions:
1. How does Raven play? She is a keep out, anti zoner character.
1.a. How is her upclose game, what is the nature of her normals, does she have any mixups? She has slow normals. Some of her slow normals have reach, but her fast ones do not. She has a 7 frame standing 1, and has a string 223 which leaves +6. B1 and B12 are both lows and safe.
1.b. How is her keepout and get-in game? Her keep out game is good. She does not zone, but she needs to react to dashes, movement, attacks etc. with Soul Crush. She is doomed full screen unless she is in Demon mode.
1.c. Which one does she favour, if at all? Keep out.
1.d. Is she a dominant character or an adapting character? Adapting.

2. Who are Raven's hardest matchups?
2.a. Does she struggle uphill against anyone? How, and what are her tools? N/A
2.b. Does she absolutely destroy any specific play styles? How? N/A
2.c. How is her comeback game? Not that great, no true mix ups, no pressure, very negative on soul crush block.
2.d. Can she snowball (suddenly burst down the opponent)? Not really, but it can happen

3. Raven's properties
3.a. How is her damage in relation to the rest of the cast? 39-44% 1 bar. She needs meter for damage.
3.b. How are her normals in relation to the rest of the cast? Not that great. Her standing 1 is High, 7 frames. Standing 2 is slower but a Mid.
3.c. Is she safe? Upclose yes. Far away no.
3.d. Is she fast on her feet, is she stationary or mobile? She's slow, no anti airs, she dies in the corner, push block is your friend. Teleport is very unsafe

4. Is she execution heavy or braindead? Execution heavy. She has weird strings. Afar, playing braindead will get you blown up.
4.a. If inbetween, where does one need to do work and what are her free options? Work on her anti air game, she gets blown up trying to AA. Work on SC jumps or lifting them.
4.b. If either, how does that work?

Replied after each questions. I don't want to get in MU talk just yet, too early.
I just want to make something clear, this character is NOT a zoner.
She is -20 on Soul Crush. Her projectile is a High.
Her Demon stance has slow startups on changed attacks, safer but slower.
Her reflect is meant to absorb, but she is also left vulnerable.
She is a lifelead type of character, and YES, she CAN be zoned out to where she needs to come in, at least to Soul Crush Range.

 

[zaf]

I don't have the game yet, but I'm intending to buy it in the upcoming months.
(I have a bunch of work and whatnot to finish before I'd have time for anything.)

Mr. Mileena
Espio

Questions:
1. How does Raven play?
1.a. How is her upclose game, what is the nature of her normals, does she have any mixups?
1.b. How is her keepout and get-in game?
1.c. Which one does she favour, if at all?
1.d. Is she a dominant character or an adapting character?

2. Who are Raven's hardest matchups?
2.a. Does she struggle uphill against anyone? How, and what are her tools?
2.b. Does she absolutely destroy any specific play styles? How?
2.c. How is her comeback game?
2.d. Can she snowball (suddenly burst down the opponent)?

3. Raven's properties
3.a. How is her damage in relation to the rest of the cast?
3.b. How are her normals in relation to the rest of the cast?
3.c. Is she safe?
3.d. Is she fast on her feet, is she stationary or mobile?

4. Is she execution heavy or braindead?
4.a. If inbetween, where does one need to do work and what are her free options?
4.b. If either, how does that work?

1- A keep away turtle, anti-zoner/zoner.
1a- She is not a 50/50 character if that is what you are asking. A lot of her good strings have a lot of pushback, for creating space to either run away or create counter poke set ups. Her 223 is actually +6, not +3 like joe said.
1b- her keepout game is good, but it is more based around punishing your opponents approach.
1c- keep out / punishing
1d- adapting because of how well you need to constantly keep your opponent off you.

2- Just like joe, not going to answer part 2 because its too early to tell.
2d - this one i will answer, i think she can snow ball with her untechable knockdown.

3a-her damage is decent i would say. in the 40's with 1 bar. The thing about her damage is it is not that important. If you are keeping them out, chipping them and landing hits then they are not touching you at all. So you will out damage them and hold a good life lead.
3b - do not know, havent touched the entire cast but so far i love her normals. her normals having "slow" start up is not a problem.
3c - she is safe if you play patient. If you constantly spam soul crush you will lose.
3d - in demon stance she has a teleport, so she is mobile in that form. outside of it she has a medium walk speed. a short back dash but a fast forward dash that covers good space.

4 - execution heavy? hell no, her strings are sooooo easy. you are really only going to use 2-3 strings in combos anyways.


She can AA very well. Learn the timing for the uppercut (d2). Also her standing 22 is a great anti air into combo.
If the first 2 misses, sometimes the second 2 will hit them anyways. She can AA, you just need to know the timing.
Also you can use singularity ( Lift) as an AA, this one is probably the best if you react fast enough.

She can be a zoner in demon stance. your fireballs turn into shang tsung ground skulls.

 

[GLoRToR]

Thanks zaf Espio Mr. Mileena
She looks like a good mid tier that takes work to use. Potential main unless she gets Jaded into the ground :3

 

[Mr. Mileena]

1- A keep away turtle, anti-zoner/zoner.
1a- She is not a 50/50 character if that is what you are asking. A lot of her good strings have a lot of pushback, for creating space to either run away or create counter poke set ups. Her 223 is actually +6, not +3 like joe said.
1b- her keepout game is good, but it is more based around punishing your opponents approach.
1c- keep out / punishing
1d- adapting because of how well you need to constantly keep your opponent off you.

2- Just like joe, not going to answer part 2 because its too early to tell.
2d - this one i will answer, i think she can snow ball with her untechable knockdown.

3a-her damage is decent i would say. in the 40's with 1 bar. The thing about her damage is it is not that important. If you are keeping them out, chipping them and landing hits then they are not touching you at all. So you will out damage them and hold a good life lead.
3b - do not know, havent touched the entire cast but so far i love her normals. her normals having "slow" start up is not a problem.
3c - she is safe if you play patient. If you constantly spam soul crush you will lose.
3d - in demon stance she has a teleport, so she is mobile in that form. outside of it she has a medium walk speed. a short back dash but a fast forward dash that covers good space.

4 - execution heavy? hell no, her strings are sooooo easy. you are really only going to use 2-3 strings in combos anyways.


She can AA very well. Learn the timing for the uppercut (d2). Also her standing 22 is a great anti air into combo.
If the first 2 misses, sometimes the second 2 will hit them anyways. She can AA, you just need to know the timing.
Also you can use singularity ( Lift) as an AA, this one is probably the best if you react fast enough.

She can be a zoner in demon stance. your fireballs turn into shang tsung ground skulls.

I fixed that earlier today. lol

 

[Crimson Cobra]

things aren't turning out as i had hoped.....whenever i play as raven it becomes a match where it's just me reaching for her ranged grabs and using projectiles against rushdown characters while trying to get in close on keep away characters

things get a bit easier when i go into demon mode...unfortunately the matches are never as fun or as exciting as the ones i get when I'm Playing as Bane(Where I Can be neck and neck only coming out on top because i went all in on the venom shots)

As Raven...I Just feel like I'm Playing Her As A Female Ermac far too often

i don't know where the fun factor went but it's certainly not with raven

 

[Sami]

Is this the general Raven tech thread? It is now.

Singularity and Soul Crush are -10 and -20 (is -20 correct?) on block, which means using them to get rid of a up-close character is just asking to get punished. D2 has quicker start-up time than Sin/SC, is only -5 and can be comboed into Singularity and Soul Crush. You might need to adjust your B&B combos to take into account the extra hit, but it seems a much safer way of trying to Sin/SC someone up close.

Not sure if there are any safer (both in terms of start-up and recovery) ways to get into Sin/SC.

 

[kabelfritz]

Is this the general Raven tech thread? It is now.

Singularity and Soul Crush are -10 and -20 (is -20 correct?) on block, which means using them to get rid of a up-close character is just asking to get punished. D2 has quicker start-up time than Sin/SC, is only -5 and can be comboed into Singularity and Soul Crush. You might need to adjust your B&B combos to take into account the extra hit, but it seems a much safer way of trying to Sin/SC someone up close.

Not sure if there are any safer (both in terms of start-up and recovery) ways to get into Sin/SC.

d2 can whiff over crouching opponents though even though ist supposed to be mid

 

[Sami]

Oh ffs really? Main reason it looked like the perfect move was because it was mid :/

edit: out of the lab, results nearly as expected: Bane, Doomsday, and Lex all get hit by U2 when crouching, while it wiffs on the rest of the cast.

The rare case is Grundy, where (brace yourselves) depending on what part of his crouch animation he's in it will either hit or miss. If he's just about to finish breathing in (shoulders close or at their highest) the move will hit. If he's nearly or completely finished breathing out (shoulders at their lowest) it will miss.

I honestly don't know what to say about that one :/

 

[shaowebb]

Spent a little bit of time with Raven last night messing around for combos and I'm starting to really enjoy her character. I like her jump combos and I really like her damage output on some of her stuff given how easy some combos are with her MB grabbity squeezes and launcher strings. Im seriously looking at grinding her up alongside my Green Arrow now.

 

[Sami]

Dumb "I'm new to frame data" question.

D1 on hit gives you an advantage of 11.
D2 has a start up time of 10.

How can the computer can block between the two attacks if D1? Is it cheating, is the frame data wrong or am I missing something very obvious here?

 

[nfdsallwd]

normal attacks don't link in this game i think, but i may be wrong
late edit: they do link, but only in juggles as far as i know

 

[Villest1]

Dumb "I'm new to frame data" question.

D1 on hit gives you an advantage of 11.
D2 has a start up time of 10.

How can the computer can block between the two attacks if D1? Is it cheating, is the frame data wrong or am I missing something very obvious here?

I've been hearing a lot of the frame data is in fact incorrect. Is that the reason why it seems like the AI is cheating? I'm not sure.

 

[Celerity]

Dumb "I'm new to frame data" question.

D1 on hit gives you an advantage of 11.
D2 has a start up time of 10.

How can the computer can block between the two attacks if D1? Is it cheating, is the frame data wrong or am I missing something very obvious here?

The game has some sort of weird anti-linking system that lets people block many linkable moves while they're in hitstun. Why did they do this? What moves does it apply to? It's a mystery to everyone.

Your interpretation of the frame data is spot on though. D1 to D2 would be a 2-frame link in Street Fighter.

 

[Sami]

The game has some sort of weird anti-linking system that lets people block many linkable moves while they're in hitstun. Why did they do this? What moves does it apply to? It's a mystery to everyone.

Your interpretation of the frame data is spot on though. D1 to D2 would be a 2-frame link in Street Fighter.

Thank you, thought I was going mad here lol. The frame data for these two moves seemed accurate. Kinda see why they did it (probably to stop normal infinites), but oh well. There are other ways of getting the opponent up in the air with Raven

 

[nfdsallwd]

actually i answered this question pretty much the same way, lol, should have quoted maybe. still new to this forum

 

[Blind_Ducky]

No idea if this has been mentioned anywhere but you knkw whats awesome? Canceling into ravens trait at the end of f222 in a juggle.

 

[A27Alak]

I have a question about Raven's "pillar" attack in demon form. How do you adjust the distance on those? I can do the mid-range and close up, but I've seen the computer go full screen. Move list doesn't even specify how to vary your distance (unless if I'm blind and it's right in front of me...).

 

[nfdsallwd]

df1+u - fullscreen, df1+f - 3/4 of the screen, df1 - mid, df1+b - close distance

 

[Sami]

actually i answered this question pretty much the same way, lol, should have quoted maybe. still new to this forum

You got a like. The other person replied in more detail so got the quote

 

[nfdsallwd]

i was talking about myself, that i should have quoted your message when answering. and i saw the like after that, thanks

more on topic, i got a question about the teleport. besides punishing unsafe stuff, is it useful to get in, sometimes at least? against characters with weak anticrossup tools maybe, like superman?

 

[Sami]

Biggest thing to remember about the teleport is that you can do air normals afterwards if you're airborne when teleporting. Makes it a lot safer to get in and if timed well enough you'll get a block-string and pressure (assuming you don't get caught before the normal comes out). You can then teleport off of this kick (yes, really) for more mind games.

I *think* you can cancel pretty much any string into a teleport, so if you're in a blockstring it might be worth ending with a behind tele and trying to either mess up their guard or switch their inputs if they were going to try and punish the blockstring.

 

[Sami]

Had a thought that ending blockstrings with demon pillars would create some horrible blocking games (pillar hits behind the opponent). Then realised that cross-ups only work on overheads so holding back to block still blocks the entire string even if she's hit from behind. Which was annoying.

All these things I thought back-to-block would enable, ruined :'( (first game I've properly got into that's b2b).

 

[kabelfritz]

after a mirror match i figured raven is a scary opponent because of the shitload of options she has from most distances (except no true melee mixups). you really dont wanna do anything cause anything she does could wreck you.