Injustice Zoning

[xWildx]

I have to say that, as a Catwoman main, I absolutely agree with the OP.

 

[aldazo]

If you spam the same projetile over and over you will get blown up.

No if you play against casual players (even if you are a casual player also).

 

[Datsumsharks]

No if you play against casual players (even if you are a casual player also).

Yeah, and someone who doesnt know how to play at all is going to get blown up by armor, crossups and command grabs, should we take that all out of the game too?

 

[RYX]

Yeah, and someone who doesnt know how to play at all is going to get blown up by armor, crossups and command grabs, should we take that all out of the game too?

They can't deal with blocking either.

I think you know where I'm going.

 

[Datsumsharks]

I think you know where I'm going.

Yeah, I straight up feel like I'm getting trolled here.

 

[aldazo]

Yeah, and someone who doesnt know how to play at all is going to get blown up by armor, crossups and command grabs, should we take that all out of the game too?

why you should take those out of the game? who talk about taking out things? all of that should stay I dont see any problem with that, nobody is talking about that, the point is zoning is easy mode for people, casuals and pros alike, and right now there are people that abuse it to get cheap victories without learning anything but spamming.

 

[THTB]

People need to play the game and learn. Zoning is strong, but when you figure out your options around it, things become easier.

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

DS has plenty of bad MUs, but like MK this game is at risk of being a lot of 2-8 and 3-7 match ups, which is bad. Every character should have tools even in bad scenarios.

this this this all day long.

even in mk9, where i played the _worst character in the game_, i didn't feel totally beaten by ANY character (cept kenshi, fuck him) because kano did have tools to get around zoning. i always felt like there was a way i could come back. this game is totally different. if i'm full screen as grundy against a DS or a GL or whoever else, and i've got half of my last lifebar and my opponent has the life lead, i may as well put my controller down. there is _no way_ i can get in without taking damage, and once i am in, it's way too easy to get pushed back to full screen again. every character has options to put you full screen. those trying to compare this game to street fighter, note that the zoners in that game do NOT have moves that knock you all the way to the opposite side of the stage. I QUOTE PWNSTAR AGAIN

This game has a fuck ton of GTFO tech, but very bad get in tech ...... Simple changes like better walk speed, quicker forward dash (hell take out some of the distance...just seriously reduce the length of the animation), less knockback, invincibility on forward dash, etc... Not saying do all of these, but something needs to change. Whether or not zoning is beatable, it makes for shitty gameplay right now to over come. You are left with very non-character specific options and if you simply aren't equiped with better zoning or anti-zoning tech, you're kinda fucked.

 

[Amadeous]

why you should take those out of the game? who talk about taking out things? all of that should stay I dont see any problem with that, nobody is talking about that, the point is zoning is easy mode for people, casuals and pros alike, and right now there are people that abuse it to get cheap victories without learning anything but spamming.

Again with the spam complaints *facepalm*

Also zoning takes a ton of practice to do correctly at high level. At the EVO injustice sideshow, do you honestly believe pros will just get destroyed by some guy who learned Deathstroke 10 minutes before?

A good [insert character] will beat any newb [Deathstroke].

Also, what defines a noob Deathstroke? A noob Deathstroke is a Deathstroke who doesn't try to change when his strategy does work. If his strategy IS working and the Deathstroke sticks with it, he is a better player.

This also doesn't just apply to Deathstroke, I've been hearing hate for Sinestro and Green Lantern as well. People need to adapt.

Saying Zoning is easy mode is insulting, zoning takes just as much precision as combos at a level I guarantee you will never get to if you use the term "spam".

 

[GGA HAN]

Everything the OP said is gold. Add to the fact the Zoner can usually (stage dependent) use interactables to move himself out of the corner and start zoning again, you will possibly have people fundamentally worse than you beating you if you aren't the Zoner.

.02

 

[aldazo]

Also zoning takes a ton of practice to do correctly at high level. At the EVO injustice sideshow, do you honestly believe pros will just get destroyed by some guy who learned Deathstroke 10 minutes before?

I'm refering to casuals more than pros, pros will find how to deal with it in time I guess.

A good [insert character] will beat any newb [Deathstroke].

I know a pro beats a casual.

Also, what defines a noob Deathstroke? A noob Deathstroke is a Deathstroke who doesn't try to change when his strategy does work. If his strategy IS working and the Deathstroke sticks with it, he is a better player.

He's not a better player he uses a better char.

This also doesn't just apply to Deathstroke, I've been hearing hate for Sinestro and Green Lantern as well. People need to adapt.

Yes, zoners should adapt also but it is so easy that they dont need to do so.

Saying Zoning is easy mode is insulting, zoning takes just as much precision as combos at a level I guarantee you will never get to if you use the term "spam".

There are tons of deathstrokes online that prove the contrary.

 

[RYX]

People should stop using shitty Deathstrokes beating shitty players as an argument.

 

[Hellion_96]

There isn't really constant pressure in this game. After making at least 2 good reads to get it, you still have to deal with armor and push block which means you eat a combo or get pushed back again to have to make the same 2 perfect reads to get in. Either way you're forced to play their game every where on the screen with them having almost no fear of punishment. I still don't think he should be nerfed but there is just too many get off me options in this game and almost no rushdown tools.

 

[aldazo]

People should stop using shitty Deathstrokes beating shitty players as an argument.

why?

 

[RYX]

Cross ups. Mix ups. Frame traps.

Expecting you to instantly win because you got in(something that will be easier when the game EVOLVES) is understandable because most of you played MK. But Christ, stop it.

The only thing in need of changing IMO is walk speeds for most of the cast.

 

[Datsumsharks]

why?

Because we shouldnt change the game for bad players. We should not reward someone for not wanting to try.

If it's not clear, I HATE nerfs. I hate the idea of taking things away from people. What if you saw DS was goign to be in Injustice and just freaked out because he's your favorite character in comics ever? I dont even like DS, I dont even like zoning but I'd hate to see them take stuff away from a person who does.

Nerfs are the WORST way to adjust games. If anything just give buffs to his 8/2 match ups.

 

[RYX]

why?

Because it doesn't prove anything. I could play a shit Flash and beat random scrubs, do I get to claim he's broken or needs nerfs? Nope. Would I if I used Catwoman? Nope. If I complained about either of these characters the entire forum would bitch me out and say level up. Hell, even if I complained about Doomsday that still would probably happen.

So because the character is good at zoning and not pumping out frame traps and mashing mix ups, it's bad. That's basically the argument here. The usual stuff involving new games(zoners being dominant) happens but everybody loses their shit because zoning characters have defensive options now(PS this isn't Mortal Kombat.) If this game rewarded rushdown characters with brainless shit and the 40% chip Deathstroke apparently takes from you, and gave zoning characters shit for options, this thread would not exist.

 

[aldazo]

Because we shouldnt change the game for bad players. We should not reward someone for not wanting to try.

what you call "bad players" I call casual players and thanks to them you have a game to play.

 

[Datsumsharks]

what you call "bad players" I call casual players and thanks to them you have a game to play.

No, they're bad players. They're the players who will send you rage mail because you did a huge combo and they thought it was cheap. Casual players do not take to forums and scream for nerfs. Casual players dont even care. And if it were true that it's because of casual players we have this new revial in fighting games then why are they filled with complicated mechinics? Why are tournaments bigger then ever?

edit: I cant type today

 

[aldazo]

Because it doesn't prove anything. I could play a shit Flash and beat random scrubs, ...

it is not about you it is about a lot of consumers (mostly casual players) that complain about it. PL beats everybody with every char but you dont have such complains as deathstroke's has and other zoning to less extend.

So because the character is good at zoning and not pumping out frame traps and mashing mix ups, it's bad. That's basically the argument here.

Wrong, the argument is that it take almost no effort to win with zoning chars (specially deathstroke) but you need a ton of effort to even the match if you are a no zoner.

The usual stuff involving new games(zoners being dominant) happens but everybody loses their shit because zoning characters have defensive options now(PS this isn't Mortal Kombat.) If this game rewarded rushdown characters with brainless shit and the 40% chip Deathstroke apparently takes from you, and gave zoning characters shit for options, this thread would not exist.

Wrong, is not about the game being in favor of zoners, it is about a "strong inbalance" in favor of zoners.

 

[RYX]

it is not about you it is about a lot of consumers (mostly casual players) that complain about it. PL beats everybody with every char but you dont have such complains as deathstroke's has and other zoning to less extend.

Wrong, the argument is that it take almost no effort to win with zoning chars (specially deathstroke) but you need a ton of effort to even the match if you are a no zoner.

Wrong, is not about the game being in favor of zoners, it is about a "strong inbalance" in favor of zoners.

I thought we were talking about 'casual players.' PL doss not qualify here.

Like I said, it takes no effort if you suck. Tom and REO did post a video showing you can navigate bullets, did they not?

And? If the game were in "strong imbalance" of pressure types I wouldn't see you running to defend the casual players who like zoning.

 

[aldazo]

No, they're bad players. They're the players who will send you rage mail because you did a huge combo and they thought it was cheap.

rage mail? I think you have some bad experiences but I dont think they are the only complainers, a prove of that is the guy that start this thread.

Casual players do not take to forums and scream for nerfs.

Casual players dont even care.

Yes they care, I read other forums and youtube reviews.

And if it were true that it's because of casual players we have this new revial in fighting games then why are they filled with complicated mechinics? Why are tournaments bigger then ever?

because somebody found it could be a good business idea.

 

[Smarrgasm]

So i heard that do play a game, you might actually have to play the game. Zoning seems good right now cause people are just complaining about dealing with it ONLINE against people they have never played before. Its not going to be easy at first. Zoning is always a powerful strategy in most fighting games and once you learn to deal with it it becomes a game of forcing the zoner to think as he zones and bear the consequences. In MK there is some zoning that has more powerful abilities than most of the zoning in injustice but we just arent used to it.

 

[BlaqandMild15]

Because it doesn't prove anything. I could play a shit Flash and beat random scrubs, do I get to claim he's broken or needs nerfs? Nope. Would I if I used Catwoman? Nope. If I complained about either of these characters the entire forum would bitch me out and say level up. Hell, even if I complained about Doomsday that still would probably happen.

So because the character is good at zoning and not pumping out frame traps and mashing mix ups, it's bad. That's basically the argument here. The usual stuff involving new games(zoners being dominant) happens but everybody loses their shit because zoning characters have defensive options now(PS this isn't Mortal Kombat.) If this game rewarded rushdown characters with brainless shit and the 40% chip Deathstroke apparently takes from you, and gave zoning characters shit for options, this thread would not exist.

Very true.

 

[aldazo]

I thought we were talking about 'casual players.' PL doss not qualify here.

You said "if I beat somebody with Flash", then I replied Pl can beat anybody with anyone it doesn prove that people will complain about all the chars.

Like I said, it takes no effort if you suck. Tom and REO did post a video showing you can navigate bullets, did they not?

Yes, but the question is why I have to do so much effort?

And? If the game were in "strong imbalance" of pressure types I wouldn't see you running to defend the casual players who like zoning.

how do you know? But I will no lie, I prefer rushdown chars over zoners, that is true.