Match-up Discussion Raven Matchup Discussion

[Espio]

Aquaman -

Ares

Bane -

Batman -

Black Adam -

Catwoman -

 

[Espio]

Cyborg -

Deathstroke -

Doomsday -

Flash -

Green Arrow -

Green Lantern -

Harley Quinn -

Hawkgirl -

 

[Espio]

Joker -

Killer Frost-

Lex Luthor -

Nightwing -

Shazam -

Sinestro -

Solomon Grundy -

Superman -

Wonder Woman -

 

[Espio]

Lobo-

Batgirl-

Scorpion-

Zod-

 

[KH_Seraph]

Sinestro-
Full screen is where he wants you. You can block his long distance grapple hold with standing block, which is advisable because his boulder is an overhead and cannot be blocked low. If you eat a boulder, he can meter burn it to juggle you and then you will become stuck in his full screen mixup with the grapple, which will give him time to charge his gimmick or do whatever he wants. Do not jump. Anticipate his fast forward projectiles but do not get carried away with reflect. If you manage to reflect, make it count and use meter to return an unblockable projectile, and go from there. You want to fight this fight mid screen and utilize soul crush as much as possible. Capitalize on any mistakes he makes. You can dash forward to avoid boulders, but the aim of this game is to avoid being full screen, do not jump, and block standing. Sinestro is a beast with his zoning, but so is Raven.
I'd consider this a 5-5 matchup at this time.


Nightwing-
His staff stance is deadly up close. Raven has very few options other than to backdash out of pressure. Attempting any strings will usually result in being poked out of it; he deals impressive damage too. You will mostly want to remain mid-screen to long distance from Nightwing, and play keepaway. Punish any jump ins or whiffed moves with a meter-burned Singularity for a full combo punish. Close-up fighting is his specialty, so again, dash away and maintain distance. Do not jump because he can still catch you with his staff. If he gets in, B23 him to initiate keepaway.
I'd consider this a 5.5-4.5 matchup at this time until I see more Escrima stuff.

Deathstroke-
His projectiles, even though they fire multiple times, can be reflected so make him respect the reflect and he'll be a bit more mindful. His meter-burned projectiles are NOT reflectable though and will inflict major damage if you allow yourself to get stuck. Just block them, dash forward to close enough distance to do a Soul Crush. Fortunately, it has so much range that you can make him respect that move and pressure with demon stance specials. I'd consider this a 5-5 matchup at this time.

Killer Frost-
Soul Crush is punishable mid-screen with Slide. Her ice daggers can be reflected. I still need to fight more Killer Frosts though. I didn't have a big problem against her.

Green Arrow-
His arrows are fast, so you have to anticipate that he'll start a zoning game with you and counter zone with reflect from the get go. You can keep him out with B23 and just Soul Crush him.

 

[Owerbart]

Doomsday Gadget can be soulcrushed on reaction? I did it a few times but not sure if I was just anticipating it or it happened. It can seriously change the MU since he'd loose an important tool

 

[vegeta]

I'll go ahead and test this out. I only played about 6 matches online out of curiosity and though nobody was "good" and spammed a lot, deathstroke gave me the most trouble and I may have miss-timed OR just had lag affect my reflect. A lot of rush down characters give me some crap too, I need to basically learn to push them off me and stay mid to long depending on who I'm fighting.
Fought a superman that spammed eye lasers too, though so far doing an air-demon stance into teleports has worked wonders.

 

[Connor Phoenix]

Has anyone got any advice for fighting Batman? He's the one character I can't seem to beat. Raven's specials don't seem to work as an anti-air against him because of his jump arch and long range jumping M. And then obviously once he's in it's really hard to get him off of you.

 

[KH_Seraph]

So, how have people been doing against Solomon Grundy? He seems to be able to armor through Raven's specials and punish with grapples for major damage. I lost bad against a Solomon I fought yesterday- Really curious as to how others are handling this matchup. At this time I almost think it's 3-7 in Solomon's favor. That ground move that he has is so OP.



Against Batman, you need to be on point with reflecting his batarangs (Use meter to reflect with unblockable projectile). You should be able to punish Grappling Hook on reaction with Soul Crush. If you are too far, then clean duck under it, dash, and then Soul Crush. His gadget is the biggest problem; They cannot be reflected. If he summons them though, you can Soul Crush on reaction and he will lose the bats. The best way to beat him is to bait his punishable/whiffed moves and then full combo punish with your favorite F+22+whatever BNB combo starter. I haven't seen any good anti-crossup technology with Batman, so you should be able to cross him up with JI2 and go into B12 LIFT, or JI3 LIFT to mix it up. JI3 is so meaty, it'll stuff whatever he has or he is forced to block and be open to throws.

 

[Connor Phoenix]

I can win long range fights by punishing his graples but that rarely happens. Everyone I play against as Batman just jumps constantly from one side of the screen to the other and no anti-air I do works I just end up getting kicked in the face.

Grundy is definitely hard as Raven. If you're within half a screen of him just don't attack, he'll super armor right through it. Bait his grab and neutral jump into a full combo or just stay away and out play his long range game. His long range move can be avoided by dashing or jumping.

 

[KH_Seraph]

I can win long range fights by punishing his graples but that rarely happens. Everyone I play against as Batman just jumps constantly from one side of the screen to the other and no anti-air I do works I just end up getting kicked in the face.

Grundy is definitely hard as Raven. If you're within half a screen of him just don't attack, he'll super armor right through it. Bait his grab and neutral jump into a full combo or just stay away and out play his long range game. His long range move can be avoided by dashing or jumping.

Jumps are free to Soul Crushes and Singularities. No jump should go unpunished by a Raven player!

That's some good info though on SG. I'll try working in some neutral J3's and follow up from there. That ground special move he has though... it's so dirty...leads to major damage from full screen...

 

[Connor Phoenix]

That's my point though. Batman's jumps aren't. I get kicked in the face every time I try to use either of those moves.

 

[RYX]

Can Deathstroke's gun be reflected on reaction? There's a 1 frame window between them; I think you're only doing it on reads.

 

[KH_Seraph]

Nope. The bullets will bop you by the time the reflect becomes active, so you have to anticipate the gunfire and reflect. The meter burn versions go right through her reflect, too. Its a hard fight from full screen. I don't think you can reflect on reaction.

Edit: Correction, The void has a 9 frame startup. You should be able to reflect the machine gun fire (22 frames) on reaction, but low gunfire has a 10 frame startup so you pretty much need to read that they are going to use that.

 

[3DPK]

Her projectile counter does not work against lows.

 

[KH_Seraph]

It works against some lows, like Nightwing's Escrima ground-scaling projectile. It does not work against moves that appear underneath her though (Like his staff stance ground move).

 

[3DPK]

I know it doesn't work against Black Atom's lightning, which hits low, and I'm sure it says it's a mid in the move description.

 

[zaf]

So, how have people been doing against Solomon Grundy? He seems to be able to armor through Raven's specials and punish with grapples for major damage. I lost bad against a Solomon I fought yesterday- Really curious as to how others are handling this matchup. At this time I almost think it's 3-7 in Solomon's favor. That ground move that he has is so OP.



Against Batman, you need to be on point with reflecting his batarangs (Use meter to reflect with unblockable projectile). You should be able to punish Grappling Hook on reaction with Soul Crush. If you are too far, then clean duck under it, dash, and then Soul Crush. His gadget is the biggest problem; They cannot be reflected. If he summons them though, you can Soul Crush on reaction and he will lose the bats. The best way to beat him is to bait his punishable/whiffed moves and then full combo punish with your favorite F+22+whatever BNB combo starter. I haven't seen any good anti-crossup technology with Batman, so you should be able to cross him up with JI2 and go into B12 LIFT, or JI3 LIFT to mix it up. JI3 is so meaty, it'll stuff whatever he has or he is forced to block and be open to throws.

i like to fight grundy a lot. it reminds me of playing against like zangief, or cage.
when you have the life lead you really do not need to be doing any specials or blockstrings. you can just walk back and forth and space him out.
let grundy act first. YOU will start getting punished and hit when you are shooting out her specials and he armors through them.
i know her specials are gdlk, but abusing them will get you hit.
i use a lot more projectile since the recovery is nice and start up is nice. i use it to try and get a reaction from grundy.
i like the b23 blockstring to close some space, it has good knockback and 0 on block. really good set up blockstring.
catch all his jumps with her lift/push
try and keep demon stance in reserve, so you can use the teleport to get away when he starts pressuring more.
the dorumammu pillars in demon stance are really good in this my as they are fast, 0 on block and can be put right in front of you if he is dashing around in front of you. you can also use demon stance teleport to counter his grave hands. He might want to use this a lot in this mu as it grants him a free hit.
when i think about it, i believe most of my wins agaisnt grundy come from time outs lol.
that and just punishing his approach

we should just list what is giving us problems in this MU and then see what can be done to adjust.

 

[Connor Phoenix]

What are people's opinions on the Green Lantern match-up? A good Green Lantern feels like Raven's hard counter to me. His full screen zoneing seems to be a lot better than hers. It's hard to catch him with anything when he does his jumping missile if he's smart. Once you get into mid range it becomes even worse. His force grab move seems to always win against Raven's. It has longer range as well and can punish her d,f M on block from mid screen. There's a very small area on the screen where Raven benfits over Green Lantern and the rest of the screen just feels like Green Lantern owns it.

 

[zaf]

What are people's opinions on the Green Lantern match-up? A good Green Lantern feels like Raven's hard counter to me. His full screen zoneing seems to be a lot better than hers. It's hard to catch him with anything when he does his jumping missile if he's smart. Once you get into mid range it becomes even worse. His force grab move seems to always win against Raven's. It has longer range as well and can punish her d,f M on block from mid screen. There's a very small area on the screen where Raven benfits over Green Lantern and the rest of the screen just feels like Green Lantern owns it.

you can reflect the missles. i know i keep forgetting raven has a reflect cuz i play ermac.
buuttt you should not be losing to GL because of his missle. reflect that.

you out range his lift with your df2. so stay outside of his lift range and you will be fine.
just let him use it, block it and do it right back. he DOES NOT have more range then raven with the lift vs df2.


EDIT: What i also do is, i just walk towards him. If GL shoots a projectile i crouch under it and then punish him with df2. I do that to a lot of characters. Just crouch under their projectile at around mid range and then punish.

 

[Red Reaper]

Jumps are free to Soul Crushes and Singularities. No jump should go unpunished by a Raven player!

That's some good info though on SG. I'll try working in some neutral J3's and follow up from there. That ground special move he has though... it's so dirty...leads to major damage from full screen...

Soul Crush doesn't anti air when they jump at you. It only anti airs at range.

Singularity is 16 Frames, so saying anti-airs should be free is not wise.

Aquaman, Superman, Killer Frost, and others have a much easier time anti-airing.

 

[zaf]

Soul Crush doesn't anti air when they jump at you. It only anti airs at range.

Singularity is 16 Frames, so saying anti-airs should be free is not wise.

Aquaman, Superman, Killer Frost, and others have a much easier time anti-airing.

if i notice soul crush will whiff if they jump in because they are too close, then i just use singularity. It usually grabs them.
Ive had more success with it hitting then getting hit myself.

 

[Red Reaper]

if i notice soul crush will whiff if they jump in because they are too close, then i just use singularity. It usually grabs them.
Ive had more success with it hitting then getting hit myself.

It isn't as free though. You have to be prepared for the jump in you also have to keep in mind that some characters have a lower jump arch so a 16 frame move, as opposed to grundy's 8 or aquaman's 7 is harder to do.

I love that it beats kross ups though.

 

[zaf]

It isn't as free though. You have to be prepared for the jump in you also have to keep in mind that some characters have a lower jump arch so a 16 frame move, as opposed to grundy's 8 or aquaman's 7 is harder to do.

I love that it beats kross ups though.

Yea it's sick for cross ups. I do usually anticipate the jump in but I do see what you mean. It is a little on the slower side and I'd even imagine Lex's j3 would hit it out. I haven't played against the entire cast just yet, but I also see what you mean for the other lower arc chars. Definetaly does not do as good against Nightwing in his staff stance as it is for others.

I've also been trying to use b31 as an AA. The second part ( 1 ) is what I am aiming to hit them with. But that itself also has proven to take some time to get out and hit them with. One thing this has been good for is going under someone jumping. So that does help. The move advances quite a good amount of range, so it goes under them quite well and makes you avoid the jump in.

 

[Connor Phoenix]

Maybe it's just because everyone I play is from the US. Hopefully after tomorrow more people from the UK will be playing. Reflecting his missiles on reaction just doesn't work very consistently.