Match-up Discussion 2013 Ermac MU Chart

[PPJ]

disagree with the kano #.. should be 6-4 ermac at most, but I think it's 5-5

 

[Soul Bound X]

air blast, push, and grabs aren't enough. i think this is in cages favor

 

[1man3letters]

agree with baraka/mileena numbers

 

[Phosferrax]

The problem for Macintosh is that when Cage gets in he doesn't really have a good way of getting out of the pressure. His pokes aren't good for it.

 

[Soul Bound X]

The problem for Macintosh is that when Cage gets in he doesn't really have a good way of getting out of the pressure. His pokes aren't good for it.

i agree. and also cage doesn't have that hard of a time getting in in this mu. he will eventually get in

 

[Phosferrax]

i agree. and also cage doesn't have that hard of a time getting in in this mu. he will eventually get in

Well I don't think it's that easy getting in for cage, remember that Ermac's footsies aren't just force push, 1,2 has similar range to f3, and if you get hit you're losing 35% and going back full screen. Air blasts are also a good tool in this mu, but it's still pretty bad when cage gets in.

 

[SLy]

Well I don't think it's that easy getting in for cage, remember that Ermac's footsies aren't just force push, 1,2 has similar range to f3, and if you get hit you're losing 35% and going back full screen. Air blasts are also a good tool in this mu, but it's still pretty bad when cage gets in.

Yea I do feel once Cage feels that 35% loss from thinking he can just waltz in. Cages are gonna respect his zoning game a lot more.. That plays a lot of mindgames which can give Mac some sort of neutral ground control..I feel its heavily player based until Cage gets in.

 

[Soul Bound X]

Well I don't think it's that easy getting in for cage, remember that Ermac's footsies aren't just force push, 1,2 has similar range to f3, and if you get hit you're losing 35% and going back full screen. Air blasts are also a good tool in this mu, but it's still pretty bad when cage gets in.

not that easy, but not that hard

 

[Metzos]

The problem for Macintosh is that when Cage gets in he doesn't really have a good way of getting out of the pressure. His pokes aren't good for it.

I ve been saying this since the mid 2012's. Ermac's d3. Lowers his hit box which makes JC's f3 whiff, thus making it unpunishable.

 

[zaf]

Cage vs ermac

Ermac can use multiple pokes after one another to get out of pressure and back away.

He has d1 lift. This will hit an aggressive cage player.

Also d3 can lower his hitbox to go under blockstrings and f3, then punish.

Cage will eventually d1 or d3 between his blockstrings. Counter poking this is necessary to get out of pressure. If cage does not use d1 or d3 ermac can use d3 to make cage whiff his normals.

The mu is 5 5. Cage can get in eventually. This mu comes down to the player

 

[Soul Bound X]

Cage vs ermac

Ermac can use multiple pokes after one another to get out of pressure and back away.

He has d1 lift. This will hit an aggressive cage player.

Also d3 can lower his hitbox to go under blockstrings and f3, then punish.

Cage will eventually d1 or d3 between his blockstrings. Counter poking this is necessary to get out of pressure. If cage does not use d1 or d3 ermac can use d3 to make cage whiff his normals.

The mu is 5 5. Cage can get in eventually. This mu comes down to the player

looks 5-5 on paper. if you wanna d1 lift, go ahead. his d3 makes f3 whiff but i dont thinks thats enough to make it 5-5. idk. when i play this it doesnt feel 5-5 to me. he cant keep me out. agree to disagree i guess

 

[zaf]

looks 5-5 on paper. if you wanna d1 lift, go ahead. his d3 makes f3 whiff but i dont thinks thats enough to make it 5-5. idk. when i play this it doesnt feel 5-5 to me. he cant keep me out. agree to disagree i guess

Cage has great pressure only when he is on ermac.

At specific ranges, after a fireball is blocked tkp becomes a frame trap and has to be blocked.

Whiffing normals on purpose to bait reactions helps ermac a lot to get punishes, especially in this mu.
Iafb, normal fireballs, grabs makes up for a good amount of damage. This includes chip damage too.

All of this is happening before cage reaches ermac.

None of this is on paper, this is all from experience and tourney experience.

 

[Soul Bound X]

Cage has great pressure only when he is on ermac.

At specific ranges, after a fireball is blocked tkp becomes a frame trap and has to be blocked.

Whiffing normals on purpose to bait reactions helps ermac a lot to get punishes, especially in this mu.
Iafb, normal fireballs, grabs makes up for a good amount of damage. This includes chip damage too.

All of this is happening before cage reaches ermac.

None of this is on paper, this is all from experience and tourney experience.

theory fighting never convinces me of anything. seven is in my friends list. i need to hit him up for games some time so i can be sure of what the mu is. i havent played this mu in a while.

 

[Eddy Wang]

jax has an armoured DUCKABLE dash punch that is ridiculously easy to punish on whiff, crouching or standing.

With a full combo. ^^

 

[zaf]

I just said its all from actual experience. Unlike a huge number of people i travel for tournaments and play a lot of people.
Online is still a poor representation of this game.

Anything i ever write for mus is not theory craft or online. All offline experience.

 

[KootieLicious]

L.B.S.H.5-5 FOR LAO LOL WHAT THE FUC-!

 

[Soul Bound X]

I just said its all from actual experience. Unlike a huge number of people i travel for tournaments and play a lot of people.
Online is still a poor representation of this game.

Anything i ever write for mus is not theory craft or online. All offline experience.

i think online is fine in good connection. and thats cool, i respect that. i talk from experience too. maybe you just havent played the right cage, or maybe its the other way around.

 

[Error]

None of this is on paper, this is all from experience and tourney experience.

theory fighting never convinces me of anything.

 

[Soul Bound X]

i have no idea what this has to do with my post but LOL. wtf

 

[Illmatix]

i like this one, but cage and lao are 4/6 but very, very manageable. with experience these could be seen as 5-5. but lbsh there's no way you cant say these guys don't control the matchup.


i also think ermac vs kang is 7-3 because i honestly think he can outzone him with ia projectiles, not mindlessly spam them, but break his rhythm strategically because he recovers really fast there is no way you can punish him with tele.
not all kangs zone like this so idk yo. but when i did fight a legit kang it was no joke.

 

[Error]

i also think ermac vs kang is 7-3 because i honestly think he can outzone him with ia projectiles, not mindlessly spam them, but break his rhythm strategically because he recovers really fast there is no way you can punish him with tele.
not all kangs zone like this so idk yo. but when i did fight a legit kang it was no joke.

Just dash under with D3s then check him with lifts or 121 if in range. He's way more dangerous up close to Ermac imo

As far as the punishing TKP with spikes being hard, I played m2dave online once, and he was able to punish pretty much every blocked TKP with a ground spike.

 

[Illmatix]

Just dash under with D3s then check him with lifts or 121 if in range. He's way more dangerous up close to Ermac imo

As far as the punishing TKP with spikes being hard, I played m2dave online once, and he was able to punish pretty much every blocked TKP with a ground spike.

yea but if he blocks your check he gets in, you see what im getting at? he out zones you, you come in, he meets you. plus good kangs will use more then his rush strings and will out footsie you at sweep range.

 

[Dizzy]

Seven m2dave

Punishing the TKP with ground spike is not a 1 or 2 frame window. If its a special move you can buffer it during blockstun. This allows the window to be much larger than if it were to be a 13 frame normal.

As far as JC vs Ermac. Its a divide between 5-5 and 4-6, and to be honest I don't really care. It doesn't change how the match is played or the tools involved. Saying numbers means nothing. I don't really have anything to say about it numbers-wise that hasn't been said already.

 

[Seven]

Seven m2dave

Punishing the TKP with ground spike is not a 1 or 2 frame window. If its a special move you can buffer it during blockstun. This allows the window to be much larger than if it were to be a 13 frame normal.

As far as JC vs Ermac. Its a divide between 5-5 and 4-6, and to be honest I don't really care. It doesn't change how the match is played or the tools involved. Saying numbers means nothing. I don't really have anything to say about it numbers-wise that hasn't been said already.

It's funny, I was thinking the EXACT same thing, there is a smaaaalllll advantage for Cage, so like 4.5-5.5. But I always round up in Ermac's favor

 

[Seven]

Ok if you can really punish the TKP push with a ground spike everytime, then I guess it would be 6-4 Freddy. But the rest of the MUs remain the same to me.