Tournament Viable Characters for 2013

[HD Smoke]

Take smoke out of tournament viable he has one true grounded offensive tool and that's b2...how can anyone just win with that?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I see your gripes with this mathup.... but i can also tell that you are so used to the unique mobility of reptile you haven't worked on moving around without the dash.

I don't think you realize just how incredibly bad Reptile's mobility is without that dash. His normal dash is literally almost nonexistant.

If I was to dash block with Kitana all the way across the screen, and then dash block with the exact same timing for reptile, I would get literally still be around the end of my d4.

Also his walk startup is incredibly slow, so that doesn't allow him to walk-block or walk-duck either.

His ONLY option against Freddy is to jump, and if a good Freddy has you full screen, you can't jump over his projectiles, because he can AA you on reaction with a ground claw and start it over again.




and THTB I already posted a list of Reptile mains who have been playing at tournaments, and there are a lot! I'll repost this list

MIT
TylerLantern
Chris Geesus
Cossner
Treadmill
Nubcakes (severely underrated player)
Chongo(maybe?)
THTB(did he play within the last year?)
Joker (he might have used Jax too?)
Showtime (but he dropped him now)
Myself

All of these people took reptile to a major within the last year, that's ridiculous to say that all of these players are bad.

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

I don't think you realize just how incredibly bad Reptile's mobility is without that dash. His normal dash is literally almost nonexistant.

If I was to dash block with Kitana all the way across the screen, and then dash block with the exact same timing for reptile, I would get literally still be around the end of my d4.

Also his walk startup is incredibly slow, so that doesn't allow him to walk-block or walk-duck either.

His ONLY option against Freddy is to jump, and if a good Freddy has you full screen, you can't jump over his projectiles, because he can AA you on reaction with a ground claw and start it over again.




and THTB I already posted a list of Reptile mains who have been playing at tournaments, and there are a lot! I'll repost this list

MIT
TylerLantern
Chris Geesus
Cossner
Treadmill
Nubcakes (severely underrated player)
Chongo(maybe?)
THTB(did he play within the last year?)
Joker (he might have used Jax too?)
Showtime (but he dropped him now)
Myself

All of these people took reptile to a major within the last year, that's ridiculous to say that all of these players are bad.

I went to MLG Dallas, am i a tourney player?

 

[coolwhip]

I don't think you realize just how incredibly bad Reptile's mobility is without that dash. His normal dash is literally almost nonexistant.

If I was to dash block with Kitana all the way across the screen, and then dash block with the exact same timing for reptile, I would get literally still be around the end of my d4.

Also his walk startup is incredibly slow, so that doesn't allow him to walk-block or walk-duck either.

His ONLY option against Freddy is to jump, and if a good Freddy has you full screen, you can't jump over his projectiles, because he can AA you on reaction with a ground claw and start it over again.




and THTB I already posted a list of Reptile mains who have been playing at tournaments, and there are a lot! I'll repost this list

MIT
TylerLantern
Chris Geesus
Cossner
Treadmill
Nubcakes (severely underrated player)
Chongo(maybe?)
THTB(did he play within the last year?)
Joker (he might have used Jax too?)
Showtime (but he dropped him now)
Myself

All of these people took reptile to a major within the last year, that's ridiculous to say that all of these players are bad.

IIRC both Tyler Lanter and Showtime did really well with Reptile at MLG Raleigh (maybe both made top 8?), MIT made top 4 at EVO by playing mainly Reptile, and Chris G has done really well with him despite almost never playing the game. That's a decent list of you ask me. Reptile has done well in tournaments on the whole.

 

[CptXecution]

I thought so too!....
If u read on I remembered the smoke bomb trade and recanted my statement at 5-5 or 5.5-4.5

Sent from my SCH-R830 using Tapatalk 2

I'm on my phone so I didn't, I'm only making a point. People are so afraid to say Kenshi loses or goes even with certain characters and it has to stop.

I personally that MU is even and shouldn't be based off of 2 specials. and LBSH, who would honestly shake TF consistently?

 

[GGA HAN]

Cyrax also for sure beats reptile. Reptile is not top 10 no way

I def. agree that Cyrax beats reptile (probably 6-4 rax), but the fact that Reptile can handle Kabal and Kenshi and still hang with everyone save maybe Sonya makes him a good candidate for top 10.

 

[Death]

I def. agree that Cyrax beats reptile (probably 6-4 rax), but the fact that Reptile can handle Kabal and Kenshi and still hang with everyone save maybe Sonya makes him a good candidate for top 10.

Can he really hang with kabal though?

Other top characters like KL, cyrax, Sonya, Freddy give him huge problems. Mileena still beats him too. That will never be even. I'm not saying rep is bad. I'm just saying he's overrated.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I went to MLG Dallas, am i a tourney player?

Sorry I wasn't aware. Guess I didn't get to meet you there. You're on the list too.

IIRC both Tyler Lanter and Showtime did really well with Reptile at MLG Raleigh (maybe both made top 8?), MIT made top 4 at EVO by playing mainly Reptile, and Chris G has done really well with him despite almost never playing the game. That's a decent list of you ask me. Reptile has done well in tournaments on the whole.

I posted it earlier but these are the highest placings with reptile recently:

Chris G was top 32 at SCR, top 16 at WB

MIT got 9th at MLG Anaheim, but didn't use exclusively Reptile.

TylerLantern got 25th at Dallas and 13th at Raleigh

Cossner got 25th at Dallas

Nubcakes was top 32 at SCR

Treadmill got 17th at Colombus

I got top 8 at Revelations (but that was a small major)


Showtime has used mostly Sonya now for a long time. He even said he officialy dropped the green man.


Unfortunately none of these are really THAT high.

 

[GGA HAN]

Can he really hang with kabal though?

Other top characters like KL, cyrax, Sonya, Freddy give him huge problems. Mileena still beats him too. That will never be even. I'm not saying rep is bad. I'm just saying he's overrated.

He does as well as anyone can hope to vs Kabal, save maybe Kung Lao. And Cyrax isn't really a problem for Kabal...see Reo vs Maxter at any recent tourney.

edit: I think you meant a problem for reptile...

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I def. agree that Cyrax beats reptile (probably 6-4 rax), but the fact that Reptile can handle Kabal and Kenshi and still hang with everyone save maybe Sonya makes him a good candidate for top 10.

I REALLY thought Reptile went even or possibly beat kabal at one point, but then I fought Cat and he really knew the matchup and competely convinced me that it was bad. I really hope he chimes in here.

A Kabal that knows that matchup is SO MUCH harder than one who isn't super familiar with it. Cat is just insane at that matchup.

 

[Seapeople]

and THTB I already posted a list of Reptile mains who have been playing at tournaments, and there are a lot! I'll repost this list

MIT
TylerLantern
Chris Geesus
Cossner
Treadmill
Nubcakes (severely underrated player)
Chongo(maybe?)
THTB(did he play within the last year?)
Joker (he might have used Jax too?)
Showtime (but he dropped him now)
Myself

All of these people took reptile to a major within the last year, that's ridiculous to say that all of these players are bad.

Dang I forgot a lot of people when I was naming players lol. And can't forget Michaelangelo & Whatsername both pulled him out at SCR.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Dang I forgot a lot of people when I was naming players lol. And can't forget Michaelangelo & Whatsername both pulled him out at SCR.

Oh yeah, also there was a Rep player named Forbidden Doughnut at SCR.

 

[GGA HAN]

I REALLY thought Reptile went even or possibly beat kabal at one point, but then I fought Cat and he really knew the matchup and competely convinced me that it was bad. I really hope he chimes in here.

A Kabal that knows that matchup is SO MUCH harder than one who isn't super familiar with it. Cat is just insane at that matchup.

Cat is a great player and you have to look at several factors. In tournament, when you're playing a reptile you've never played before, reptile is better than he normally is because you know when to look for dashes, putting FB's on the screen. When you're playing a reptile training partner that you know, and you have a good idea of his tendencies...thats different.

Reptile doesn't go even with Kabal, that's not what I'm saying. He probably loses 4-6...but doesn't everyone lose at least this bad to him....lol

 

[Seapeople]

Oh yeah, also there was a Rep player named Forbidden Doughnut at SCR.

And I think Chrispy Cream was at something recently too. There's been lots of representation lol. I used him at MLG Columbus and managed to beat Relaxedstate but still went 1-2 ;_;

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Cat is a great player and you have to look at several factors. In tournament, when you're playing a reptile you've never played before, reptile is better than he normally is because you know when to look for dashes, putting FB's on the screen. When you're playing a reptile training partner that you know, and you have a good idea of his tendencies...thats different.

Reptile doesn't go even with Kabal, that's not what I'm saying. He probably loses 4-6...but doesn't everyone lose at least this bad to him....lol

Yeah but how is losing to the top character 6-4 grounds to make a character tournament worthy when he loses to 90% of the top characters?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I REALLY thought Reptile went even or possibly beat kabal at one point, but then I fought Cat and he really knew the matchup and competely convinced me that it was bad. I really hope he chimes in here.

A Kabal that knows that matchup is SO MUCH harder than one who isn't super familiar with it. Cat is just insane at that matchup.

I mean.... at least with Reptile when you're trying to interrupt the NDC ... you'll get 11% compared to the typical 1% and the same trade (cuz ... well he's going to get a full combo regardless).

You can float combo's on the screen like he can....

but yeah... idk......
Maybe reptile is just on the outside looking in? What if a few things goes differently.... you have chris G in top 8 at WB?
Maybe Reptile players are simply cursed by the online boogy man?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I mean.... at least with Reptile when you're trying to interrupt the NDC ... you'll get 11% compared to the typical 1% and the same trade (cuz ... well he's going to get a full combo regardless).

You can float combo's on the screen like he can....

but yeah... idk......
Maybe reptile is just on the outside looking in? What if a few things goes differently.... you have chris G in top 8 at WB?
Maybe Reptile players are simply cursed by the online boogy man?

See the thing about Kabal's pressure is that Elbow Dash doesn't poke out of pressure better than any 10 frame poke (I know that sounds crazy but listen.)

His minimum amount of + off of his NDC strings are generally 2 or 3 (I keep hearing conflicting reports) and those are off of his mid hitting strings B1 and F32. Those are generally the only strings that you are going to be able to get out after.

The guessing game is:

If Kabal does a high hitting fast normal (Standing 2 is 9 frames but turns into 6 frames because of +3) it will beat any attempt to standing poke out (aside from lao spin and sektor 1 sometimes.) The way to beat this is neutral duck the standing 2 and whiff punish.

If Kabal does another mid hitting normal (F3 and B1 are both 13 frames, but at +3 they are 10) if so any 9 frame or better normal will win, but it will beat you trying to neutral duck the standing 2.

If Kabal does a down poke, lets go of the dash, or cancels into his 50/50, it will beat any option (7 frame d3 becomes 4 frames), so you are forced to block and try to punish. However if you are waiting for that, and they go for another mid hitting string (or standing 2 on high hitbox chars) then the situation starts all over again.

If Kabal thinks you have armor or you are going to down poke then he can block and punish. Of course if you do a string, you win here.

So having a 6 frame dash doesn't give any strict advantage over having any 9 frame combo starting string, because it will still:

Lose to standing 2

Beat another mid

Lose to downpokes/let it go/50/50

Plus it loses to blocking where a 9 frame normal would not.






The only big advantage or Elbow Dash in this matchup is that it punishes both of his 50/50 options.

Beat

 

[Chongo]

EGP Wonder_Chef
I've went to both NEC and WB and used Reptile 90% of the time in my tournament matches. (Random select Cage ftl)

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

EGP Wonder_Chef
I've went to both NEC and WB and used Reptile 90% of the time in my tournament matches. (Random select Cage ftl)

Okay cool. Yeah for some reason I thought I heard you were using cage.

Anyway I still put you on the list.

 

[Eddy Wang]

no disrespect to the players in angola but didnt neo russell go over there and body everyone with jade? well except eddie wang.im not saying eddie wang isnt good im just wondering how good the rest are.

some players are still free, but they're leveling up.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Smoke's not viable

Liu Kang 5-5
Kung Lao 3.5/6.5
Johnny Cage 4/6
Mileena 5-5
Cyrax 4-6
Sonya Blade 3-7
Jax 4-6
Shang Tsung 6-4
Kabal 3-7
Kitana 5-5
Kenshi 5-5
Freddy Krueger 6-4
Sektor 5-5
Reptile 5-5
Raiden 5-5
Skarlet 4-6

Smoke cannot compete at the highest possible level without an alt because he loses so badly to kabal, cage, sonya, lao, and jax. A dual-mainer can make good use of him but alone he is not usable.

who cares that he beats or goes even with a lot of the top tiers? He loses to some of the most used tournament characters out there and people are about to say he's viable outside of miracle resets? gtfo

 

[Dizzy]

EGP Wonder_Chef

I don't get it, why not d3 if you wanted to go for way out of kabals pressure that is safe on block? Also, I don't get why elbow dash would lose to standing 2 or f4 if hes only at +2. If anything, elbow dash being as fast as it is would make kabal want to stop his pressure to block it more often than not.

Regardless, a big plus reptile has in this match is he actually has a chance to do anything full screen

 

[Chongo]

Okay cool. Yeah for some reason I thought I heard you were using cage.

Anyway I still put you on the list.

I used Cage once against SawnikFawx (It was right after I had gotten babied and I just wanted to be out of there, I random selected and got him.) and I used him once against HazeJupiter at a match at NEC because of likewise reasons.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

EGP Wonder_Chef

I don't get it, why not d3 if you wanted to go for way out of kabals pressure that is safe on block? Also, I don't get why elbow dash would lose to standing 2 or f4 if hes only at +2. If anything, elbow dash being as fast as it is would make kabal want to stop his pressure to block it more often than not.

Regardless, a big plus reptile has in this match is he actually has a chance to do anything full screen

It loses if he's +3, not sure which is true.


And yeah d3 is a good option, I was just saying that elbow dash doesn't interrupt much that a lot of normals wouldn't.

 

[Dizzy]

Freddy Krueger 6-4

m2dave