Player Skill (Very Serious Discussion)

[Badboy Takuma]

Ok so after reading your posts it seems like you are an angry Cage main, who hates Kenshi and Kabal. Why not pick up Kenshi, Kabal or Kung Lao then and place high with them? Seeing as you are saying it is a counter picking game. Go Kung Lao against a high level Kenshi like Pig, lol see how that works for you.

thats the problem!
u say "Why not pick up Kenshi, Kabal or Kung Lao then and place high with them?"
because he maybe DON'T ENJOY TO PLAY WITH THOSE CHARS

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Ok so after reading your posts it seems like you are an angry Cage main, who hates Kenshi and Kabal. Why not pick up Kenshi, Kabal or Kung Lao then and place high with them? Seeing as you are saying it is a counter picking game. Go Kung Lao against a high level Kenshi like Pig, lol see how that works for you.

*Facepalm* This totally negates your argument... you are basiclly agreeing with me lol.... I'm saying that a character can hold back a player, you are saying that is not true, I say TIER LIST, you guys say.....uhhhh you just ignore this, and tell me to play a tournament level player when I have been offline like twice....

 

[LanceMonsoon]

*Facepalm* This totally negates your argument... you are basiclly agreeing with me lol.... I'm saying that a character can hold back a player, you are saying that is not true, I say TIER LIST, you guys say.....uhhhh you just ignore this, and tell me to play a tournament level player when I have been offline like twice....

Well to be honest you lost me back on page 1. Now after this post I am more lost. With that said I am just going to say "OK".

 

[Soul Bound X]

Without the division of skill every tournament would be purly about CPing.... so duh that the player factors in... but to discount your characters limitations is just stupid.... If Pig was at any tournament that Dizzy won or placed high at he would have been eliminated.... end of story

yeah, that would be his own fault though. that mu is terrible. you HAVE to counter pick that mu if ur cage. every cage player should have a solid kung lao. that is one of those mu's where a player of lower skill can beat you because its really bad. what character you use does matter in certain mu's but no one is placing well at tournaments just because of the character they use.

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Well to be honest you lost me back on page 1. Now after this post I am more lost. With that said I am just going to say "OK".

How are you lost? I'm saying that the character you main and your skill with said character have a direct corrilation to your success, you seem to be saying that it has nothing to do with the character and all about the player...

 

[Flagg]

No one is questioning the skill of players, but certain characters greater enhance a players chance of winning.

This tired old argument of "its not the character winning, its the player".....that's baloney, truth is its the character plus whatever BS their character has. REO is not going to win tournaments if he switched to Sheeva, no matter how good he is. I'm sure he'd still get through a surprising amount of players, but she has disadvantages that Kabal simply doesnt have.

F0xy is learning Kenshi. He is using him to take a death team of Kung Lao, Sonya, Cage and Kenshi to Evo. I mean if you think about it, he covers practically the whole cast in terms of MU's there with that team.

This game is roughly about 50% player skill, 50% character tools.

Back to the original post, yes I do feel some players dont get the props they deserve outside of the USA. Foxy, Glue, Ketchup and Mustard have won stuff in the UK, Ireland and EU, but they are laughed at by some American players as being "oh, that wasnt a real tournament". I get the impression Canadian tournaments arent taken that seriously either.

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

yeah, that would be his own fault though. that mu is terrible. you HAVE to counter pick that mu if ur cage. every cage player should have a solid kung lao. that is one of those mu's where a player of lower skill can beat you because its really bad. what character you use does matter in certain mu's but no one is placing well at tournaments just because of the character they use.

OMFG, once agian, not saying it is just the character, but I feel as though it is a 40% character selection 60% player skill, not 100% player skill (assuming I am talking about players at the highest level, don't come at me with this "DERP play the best Kenshi with your day 1 Lao DERP DERP"

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

No one is questioning the skill of players, but certain characters greater enhance a players chance of winning.

This tired old argument of "its not the character winning, its the player".....that's baloney, truth is its the character plus whatever BS their character has. REO is not going to win tournaments if he switched to Sheeva, no matter how good he is. I'm sure he'd still get through a surprising amount of players, but she has disadvantages that Kabal simply doesnt have.

F0xy is learning Kenshi. He is using him to take a death team of Kung Lao, Sonya, Cage and Kenshi to Evo. I mean if you think about it, he covers practically the whole cast in terms of MU's there with that team.

This game is roughly about 50% player skill, 50% character tools.

Back to the original post, yes I do feel some players dont get the props they deserve outside of the USA. Foxy, Glue, Ketchup and Mustard have won stuff in the UK, Ireland and EU, but they are laughed at by some American players as being "oh, that wasnt a real tournament". I get the impression Canadian tournaments arent taken that seriously either.

Careful man, you arn't stroking off the top players in saying that they are great only becasue of their skill... your....post.... too much logic.... SALT!!!!

 

[Soul Bound X]

OMFG, once agian, not saying it is just the character, but I feel as though it is a 40% character selection 60% player skill, not 100% player skill (assuming I am talking about players at the highest level, don't come at me with this "DERP play the best Kenshi with your day 1 Lao DERP DERP"

i have a feeling that you are not very good at this game for some reason.

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Faceplam

i have a feeling that you are not very good at this game for some reason.

LMFAO, when confronted with the logic of my argument this is the response I get lol... and no, I'm a pretty fucking good Cage/Smoke.... Am I Dizzy, no, am I a scrub? no...

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Of EQUAL skill fool.... that is the whole point of tier list.... jesus fucking christ.....

Dude I agree w this

For example I have no doubts dizzy would be an Elite kenshi or myself an elite cage

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Dude I agree w this

For example I have no doubts dizzy would be an Elite kenshi or myself an elite cage

So what exactly are you arguing with me about? Think about this one carfully....

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Flagg

I think every FG and game for that matter is about 50% skill and 50% character tools

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

So what exactly are you arguing with me about? Think about this one carfully....

I think my posts are pretty clear where I stand and others stand

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Flagg

I think every FG and game for that matter is about 50% skill and 50% character tools

There you go contradicting yourself again....

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

I think my posts are pretty clear where I stand and others stand

Ya, that I have no idea what I am talking about when I say that characters matter as much as the person playing them. but that it is 50% Character 50% Player -_______-

 

[Flagg]

Careful man, you arn't stroking off the top players in saying that they are great only becasue of their skill... your....post.... too much logic.... SALT!!!!

I wont ever be up there with the top players in this game, and likely if they started maining the low tier characters im fond of for any length of time, they could prolly beat me with those characters.

I played Curbo's Kenshi last night on XBL. Naturally I lost because it was hard to get in on him. I mean that's how Kenshi is meant to be played. And the more I think about it, the more I think zoning is actually more powerful in this game than rush down. The majority of kabals play keep away, but Kabal is made all the worst because he has rush down comparable to Cage or Kung Lao.

No one should have any shame in playing their main the way the character is meant to be played. That's all. If people feel that their chances of winning a tournie or placing high is by maining a strong character, then they should do it, rather than eat humble pie and say "yo, you only won cause I used X and you used Y". Excuses can go both ways.

 

[LanceMonsoon]

How are you lost? I'm saying that the character you main and your skill with said character have a direct corrilation to your success, you seem to be saying that it has nothing to do with the character and all about the player...

Well if you refer to my first post that you quoted I said REO would do well with any tournament viable character. I didn't say REO would win all these majors with Kano. But don't you get it that, I am saying for every REO and Curbo there are another 10 Kabals out there going 1-2, and for every Pig and PL there are other Kung Laos and Kenshis not even cracking top 16. What else is there to say really?

 

[Lazoruz]

Personally, I do think the character's tier is part of a match, but I have always played low tier characters and have beaten people who are considered skilled players simply because they don't know the match-ups. Knowing the match-ups is comprehensive of the term "SKILLED". However, OP characters like Kabal still lend a hand in the making or breaking of a good player. If you win using a top tier character and people say you won because of that, then prove them wrong by using a low tier character and still winning. That will prove your skill and ability to be "God-Like"...

 

[Axel_Redd]

player skill does count for a lot, tho the things with fighting games is, theres a lot of variables. Even if both players are equal, just one of them has to make the right read to take the match and it could happen at any time from either player.

that being said, Kenshi really is easymode. If Cage is the easiest rushdown character to learn, Kenshi is easily the easiest keep-away character to learn.

 

[Flagg]

Flagg

I think every FG and game for that matter is about 50% skill and 50% character tools

Yes I agree. It's going to be harder to win with Hakan than it will Sagat in SSF IV. But every game has character specialists, and specialists do well due to complete mastery of the character they use. They might not win, but they'll place higher than someone using a pocket version of their main. Capcom balance their games with HP buffs/nerfs. I've always wondered whether that would be good to impliment in MK.

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Well if you refer to my first post that you quoted I said REO would do well with any tournament viable character. I didn't say REO would win all these majors with Kano. But don't you get it that, I am saying for every REO and Curbo there are another 10 Kabals out there going 1-2, and for every Pig and PL there are other Kung Laos and Kenshis not even cracking top 16. What else is there to say really?

*Sigh* becasue those PLAYERS are better than the rest of the field.... Picture a tournament with Pig using Kenshi, Dizzy using Cage, Reo using Kabal, XxSmokexX using Smoke, Chris G using Cyrax, and GGA Jerimiah using Sheeva... and tell me who wins and ask yourself if the character they used mattered....This is the best example of my argument.. if you can't understand this, well then.... wow, that would be really sad....

 

[LanceMonsoon]

*Sigh* becasue those PLAYERS are better than the rest of the field.... Picture a tournament with Pig using Kenshi, Dizzy using Cage, Reo using Kabal, XxSmokexX using Smoke, Chris G using Cyrax, and GGA Jerimiah using Sheeva... and tell me who wins and ask yourself if the character they used mattered....This is the best example of my argument.. if you can't understand this, well then.... wow, that would be really sad....

Well I'm confused to why Chris G would be using Cyrax.

 

[Soul Bound X]

*Sigh* becasue those PLAYERS are better than the rest of the field.... Picture a tournament with Pig using Kenshi, Dizzy using Cage, Reo using Kabal, XxSmokexX using Smoke, Chris G using Cyrax, and GGA Jerimiah using Sheeva... and tell me who wins and ask yourself if the character they used mattered....This is the best example of my argument.. if you can't understand this, well then.... wow, that would be really sad....

in a mu like cage vs kenshi it does matter. if pig went to a tournament where there were nothing but cage players he would win hands down because of the character he uses. but that doesnt happen

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Well I'm confused to why Chris G would be using Cyrax.

I ment Tony T... and once again just ignore the logic and reply with retardation