What do you expect to see in MK9's evolution in 2-3 years?

[Alien Substance]

Nearly five pages of 45 posts, and I'm still the only one who said anything about Kratos; TYM, I am disappoint.

 

[Killphil]

Nearly five pages of 45 posts, and I'm still the only one who said anything about Kratos; TYM, I am disappoint.

In 2-3 years, or sometime in between, an event will happen that features Kratos and he'll at least get some stream time at a tourney. Oh, and someone will blow out a top player's back with him, leading to the inevitable 'Kratos top 5?' thread.

 

[Alien Substance]

In 2-3 years, or sometime in between, an event will happen that features Kratos and he'll at least get some stream time at a tourney. Oh, and someone will blow out a top player's back with him, leading to the inevitable 'Kratos top 5?' thread.

And I'll be there......observing...

 

[RexyWrecks]

I see MK10 in two to three years.

 

[Obs_SmSwag]

More Drama

 

[Treadmill]

More Drama

**** you!

 

[Sultani]

In 2 - 3 years people will understand that console specific characters will never be allowed in tournaments and finally stop talking about them.

 

[NKZero]

The idea that Cage isn't in the top 10 is laughable. How can a character who builds obscene amounts of meter while chipping you to death with crazy rush down not be there. I think Cage is the only character that actually wants to do chip damage rather than actual damage. He may struggle against some of the heavier zoners but he has certain ways to get in and once he gets in, you're in trouble. Oh and EX nut punch is a crazy good move, once people use that he becomes really scary.

 

[Sultani]

Yeah. Johnny is in my top 10 for sure.

I hate that he is, but he is. I F'ing hate Johnny Cage. Nothing to do with his tool set, imbalancedness, or anything like that. I just fucking hate him because I think he's totally retarded. Kinda like Kenshi. I don't hate him because I think he's over powered. I hate him because Kenshi is fucking stupid. They are dumb ideas for characters.

 

[SLy]

A Telekenetic Blind Swordsman?

That's Godlike bro

 

[Alien Substance]

In two-to-three years, I think it might be possible that people will want to extract as much out of MK9 as possible, even if it means a console-exclusive character. Kratos is a part of MK9, no matter how many desire to subject him to the Land of the Banned.

 

[Sultani]

Kratos is nothing more than a little extra perk you get for having a PS3. He's not part of MK9. He's part of the PS3 version of MK9 only. I'm sure you can figure out the difference. The game isn't exclusive to PS3. Just because you have a PS3 doesn't mean everyone does.

 

[Alien Substance]

Kratos is nothing more than a little extra perk you get for having a PS3. He's not part of MK9. He's part of the PS3 version of MK9 only. I'm sure you can figure out the difference. The game isn't exclusive to PS3. Just because you have a PS3 doesn't mean everyone does.

Of course I am aware the game isn't exclusive for the PS3. But the PS3 is the tournament-standard for nearly every tourney, then again, not all tournaments will use the PS3.

Quite the Debbie Downer for poor Kratos players, are you? Allow me to try again:

In 2-3 years, a local tournament will have Kratos as a legal fighter, if everyone agrees to making him legal. Or they will have a side-tourney with Kratos as a legal fighter.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

People will realize Freddy is overrated and he will drop a bit in the list.

 

[Peckapowa]

The idea that Cage isn't in the top 10 is laughable. How can a character who builds obscene amounts of meter while chipping you to death with crazy rush down not be there. I think Cage is the only character that actually wants to do chip damage rather than actual damage. He may struggle against some of the heavier zoners but he has certain ways to get in and once he gets in, you're in trouble. Oh and EX nut punch is a crazy good move, once people use that he becomes really scary.

what are you living in the goddamn stone age? once people start using ex nutpunch???? how can a character be top 10 when he has 3 3-7 or worsts and atleast 2 4-6 matchups for sure and maybe 2 more? as far as tournament viability goes kenshi rapes him too hard.

 

[NKZero]

what are you living in the goddamn stone age? once people start using ex nutpunch???? how can a character be top 10 when he has 3 3-7 or worsts and atleast 2 4-6 matchups for sure and maybe 2 more? as far as tournament viability goes kenshi rapes him too hard.

I'm not comparing him to Kenshi. But to say he isn't in the top 10, is (as you so eloquently put it) "living in the goddamn stone age". I'm sure a Cage player like yourself knows why EX nut punch is so good, do you really want me to explain it to you? As for MU's yeah he struggles (as I said before) against heavy zoning but that's it. Every MU number changes drastically once he's in your face, and 4-6 isn't really that bad of a MU. To be the best in one facet of the game and not be in the top 10 doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Do me a favour and either spew some sense onto the forum or don't bother commenting. Everyone and their grandmothers have Cage in the top 10....are we all behind the times?

 

[xenogorgeous]

Question is, if MK9 still will bring such attention, and be target for competitive scene, at least, in satisfatory level, since, in 2-3 years ahead, we now we gonna have Injustice, probably MK10 will be release, and, why not, even Injustice 2 ?

This way, I see MK9 , gradually and naturally, being more and more less playing by people, overall .... everyting has a life cycle that ends

 

[THTB]

Question is, if MK9 still will bring such attention, and be target for competitive scene, at least, in satisfatory level, since, in 2-3 years ahead, we now we gonna have Injustice, probably MK10 will be release, and, why not, even Injustice 2 ?

This way, I see MK9 , gradually and naturally, being more and more less playing by people, overall .... everyting has a life cycle that ends

Tell that to ST.

As far as Cage goes, 3 3-7s? Kenshi and Kabal are the only two characters that will give him these problems, and even then, I think only Kenshi will be that hard.

 

[Peckapowa]

I'm not comparing him to Kenshi. But to say he isn't in the top 10, is (as you so eloquently put it) "living in the goddamn stone age". I'm sure a Cage player like yourself knows why EX nut punch is so good, do you really want me to explain it to you? As for MU's yeah he struggles (as I said before) against heavy zoning but that's it. Every MU number changes drastically once he's in your face, and 4-6 isn't really that bad of a MU. To be the best in one facet of the game and not be in the top 10 doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Do me a favour and either spew some sense onto the forum or don't bother commenting. Everyone and their grandmothers have Cage in the top 10....are we all behind the times?

CAGE is 10 AT BEST in my opinion, i feel that he could surpass kitana, but i have him at 11-12 on my list because of three chars that rape him, hes interchangeable with liu kang in my opinion and i feel that liu my fare better in terms of tournament viability

cage goes even with a lot of chars in my opinion, loses 3-7 to freddy and kabal(as the meta improves these might get worst, i think freddy is slept on hard), 2-8 to kenshi, he loses a hard 4-6 to sonya, most likely loses 4-6 to cyrax, possibly loses to kitana and skarlet and sub (i feel this matchup is even if not in his favor though)
he goes even to shang , smoke (damage plus footsie advantage) liu kang(slight adv cage if any) and reptile( i will argue to my grave this is even because of reptiles zoning abilities) in my opinion and even with kung lao if not 6-4 in his favor slightly (this matchup doesnt compare to how badly sonya beats cage)

better chars than cage for sure

kabal
kenshi
cyrax(cage on roids because of his damage)
sonya(she loses between 4-6 and 3-7 to freddy kenshi and kabal and beats all others (outside of 1-2 matchups arguably), she does MUCH MUCH better than cage against top tier zoning and has an advantage against anybody whose zoning isnt broken bullshit)
kung lao
freddy krueger

chars i feel are better than cage for sure (outside of kitana)

skarlet (she has fantastic pressure and mixup game, great counterzoning her matchups have great variety in debatability but i dont think anyone blows her out of the water, kung lao is probably her worst matchup if im not mistaken, she is slighlty underrated)
smoke (loses to lao, kabal, jax, sonya and reptile(some think even) and kenshi(some argue he wins i hold the opinion this is 6-4 kenshi) beats quite a few if not more than cage, his damage and counter-zoning are retarded)
reptile (loses to cyrax 4-6, mileena 4-6, lao 4-6, and sonya arguably 3-7.... he goes even with cage and DEFINETLY even with liu kang i know these matchups all too well) i personally think hes super viable in comparision to cage who cant do anything vs kenshi and in do time will get wrecked bad vs freddy)
kitana (she's more tournament viable than cage, she fares much better against kabal, better against freddy (in my opinion her arc alter projectile helps her play mind games better, and equally to slightly better vs kenshi) she may or may not lose to liu kang smoke and reptile she does better vs shang cyrax sub and others

debatable

liu kang ( loses to sektor 4-6, loses to smoke 4-6 (some argue even), loses to sonya (4-6 for sure, problematic up close) loses to noob saibot (4-6), loses to kenshi 3-7 (he fares better than cage because of fireball and instant, but its harder for him to stay in), freddy 3-7 (he does worst than cage in this fight arguably), 3.5-6.5 vs kabal (liu may do worst at the highest level than cage but he competes in the zoning and footsie battle very well, the problem is kabals armor and pressure give him a SERIOUS edge)
he does better vs sub (arguably 7-3) better vs skarlet (6-4 arguably) better vs cyrax (6-4 arguably) better vs kitana (6-4 arguably) liu kangs abilities vs kabal and his bad matchups being the same as cages pretty much make him arguably better.

sektor ( he loses to kenshi 4-6 to 3-7, loses to freddy 4-6 (could be worst), loses to kabal 3-7 dat buzzsaw, loses to sonya possibly 3-7, loses to reptile 4-6 to 3-7, and shang 4-6 and no worst (but has an adv up close) he is on the same level as cage
shang (he is comparable in the matchup department, but i think he has 2 3-7s, smoke and freddy, jax is bad, kabal is bad, noob and lao are bad, kitana(ive heard even but cowboy is just so damn good he makes matchups look even) and cyrax are bad
jax( i think he loses to WAY WAY too many characters to be on cages level)

 

[NKZero]

CAGE is 10 AT BEST in my opinion, i feel that he could surpass kitana, but i have him at 11-12 on my list because of three chars that rape him, hes interchangeable with liu kang in my opinion and i feel that liu my fare better in terms of tournament viability

cage goes even with a lot of chars in my opinion, loses 3-7 to freddy and kabal(as the meta improves these might get worst, i think freddy is slept on hard), 2-8 to kenshi, he loses a hard 4-6 to sonya, most likely loses 4-6 to cyrax, possibly loses to kitana and skarlet and sub (i feel this matchup is even if not in his favor though)
he goes even to shang , smoke (damage plus footsie advantage) liu kang(slight adv cage if any) and reptile( i will argue to my grave this is even because of reptiles zoning abilities) in my opinion and even with kung lao if not 6-4 in his favor slightly (this matchup doesnt compare to how badly sonya beats cage)

better chars than cage for sure

kabal
kenshi
cyrax(cage on roids because of his damage)
sonya(she loses between 4-6 and 3-7 to freddy kenshi and kabal and beats all others (outside of 1-2 matchups arguably), she does MUCH MUCH better than cage against top tier zoning and has an advantage against anybody whose zoning isnt broken bullshit)
kung lao
freddy krueger

chars i feel are better than cage for sure (outside of kitana)

skarlet (she has fantastic pressure and mixup game, great counterzoning her matchups have great variety in debatability but i dont think anyone blows her out of the water, kung lao is probably her worst matchup if im not mistaken, she is slighlty underrated)
smoke (loses to lao, kabal, jax, sonya and reptile(some think even) and kenshi(some argue he wins i hold the opinion this is 6-4 kenshi) beats quite a few if not more than cage, his damage and counter-zoning are retarded)
reptile (loses to cyrax 4-6, mileena 4-6, lao 4-6, and sonya arguably 3-7.... he goes even with cage and DEFINETLY even with liu kang i know these matchups all too well) i personally think hes super viable in comparision to cage who cant do anything vs kenshi and in do time will get wrecked bad vs freddy)
kitana (she's more tournament viable than cage, she fares much better against kabal, better against freddy (in my opinion her arc alter projectile helps her play mind games better, and equally to slightly better vs kenshi) she may or may not lose to liu kang smoke and reptile she does better vs shang cyrax sub and others

debatable

liu kang ( loses to sektor 4-6, loses to smoke 4-6 (some argue even), loses to sonya (4-6 for sure, problematic up close) loses to noob saibot (4-6), loses to kenshi 3-7 (he fares better than cage because of fireball and instant, but its harder for him to stay in), freddy 3-7 (he does worst than cage in this fight arguably), 3.5-6.5 vs kabal (liu may do worst at the highest level than cage but he competes in the zoning and footsie battle very well, the problem is kabals armor and pressure give him a SERIOUS edge)
he does better vs sub (arguably 7-3) better vs skarlet (6-4 arguably) better vs cyrax (6-4 arguably) better vs kitana (6-4 arguably) liu kangs abilities vs kabal and his bad matchups being the same as cages pretty much make him arguably better.

sektor ( he loses to kenshi 4-6 to 3-7, loses to freddy 4-6 (could be worst), loses to kabal 3-7 dat buzzsaw, loses to sonya possibly 3-7, loses to reptile 4-6 to 3-7, and shang 4-6 and no worst (but has an adv up close) he is on the same level as cage
shang (he is comparable in the matchup department, but i think he has 2 3-7s, smoke and freddy, jax is bad, kabal is bad, noob and lao are bad, kitana(ive heard even but cowboy is just so damn good he makes matchups look even) and cyrax are bad
jax( i think he loses to WAY WAY too many characters to be on cages level)

Thanks for making a more concerted effort to debate this.

Anyways I don't really want to go through all the MU's you listed. I agree with the definitely better characters, and I could see Skarlet and Smoke being better as well. I agree his 3-7's or worse come against 3 of the best zoners and overall characters in the game. 4-6 is very winnable and much of the reason his MU's are losing MU's is because the opposing characters either out turtle him (Sub Zero), have better footsies/superior spacing (Sonya) or are just better versions of him (Cyrax). Once Cage is in, if we were to decide MU numbers on certain parts of the screen, he'd win pretty much every MU up close.

Even in his MU's vs Freddy and Kabal he has certain ways around them. Kabal cannot zone forever without pushing himself into the corner. One well timed EX shadow kick and he's in the corner (with Cage using his fast forward dash to close down the gap quickly). Against Freddy the zoning isn't impossible because at a certain distance Freddy has to be careful with when Cage is going to jump or whatever (unlike Kenshi who has safe armour, better AA zoning etc.).

Now the one thing that cripples Cage (which you made reference to) is the fact that his losing MU's come against very tournament viable characters. But also note that he beats many of the characters who are arguably around his level. He beats Smoke, goes even with Reptile, maybe beats Liu Kang, goes even with Kitana, beats Jax, probably even with Shang, even (maybe slight advantage) against Sektor etc. The reason other characters do better MU wise sometimes against the top tiers are because they have more variety about their play.

Cage is very much one dimensional, but he's the best at one facet of the game. You cannot overlook that imo and that's what makes him dangerous. Zoning in this game is effective but rarely is it so potent that you cannot get in at least once or twice a match. If a Cage player gets in and plays his cards right, uses meter wisely and uses tricky pressure sequences, it's really tricky to get away from him again.

 

[Peckapowa]

Thanks for making a more concerted effort to debate this.

Anyways I don't really want to go through all the MU's you listed. I agree with the definitely better characters, and I could see Skarlet and Smoke being better as well. I agree his 3-7's or worse come against 3 of the best zoners and overall characters in the game. 4-6 is very winnable and much of the reason his MU's are losing MU's is because the opposing characters either out turtle him (Sub Zero), have better footsies/superior spacing (Sonya) or are just better versions of him (Cyrax). Once Cage is in, if we were to decide MU numbers on certain parts of the screen, he'd win pretty much every MU up close.

Even in his MU's vs Freddy and Kabal he has certain ways around them. Kabal cannot zone forever without pushing himself into the corner. One well timed EX shadow kick and he's in the corner (with Cage using his fast forward dash to close down the gap quickly). Against Freddy the zoning isn't impossible because at a certain distance Freddy has to be careful with when Cage is going to jump or whatever (unlike Kenshi who has safe armour, better AA zoning etc.).

Now the one thing that cripples Cage (which you made reference to) is the fact that his losing MU's come against very tournament viable characters. But also note that he beats many of the characters who are arguably around his level. He beats Smoke, goes even with Reptile, maybe beats Liu Kang, goes even with Kitana, beats Jax, probably even with Shang, even (maybe slight advantage) against Sektor etc. The reason other characters do better MU wise sometimes against the top tiers are because they have more variety about their play.

Cage is very much one dimensional, but he's the best at one facet of the game. You cannot overlook that imo and that's what makes him dangerous. Zoning in this game is effective but rarely is it so potent that you cannot get in at least once or twice a match. If a Cage player gets in and plays his cards right, uses meter wisely and uses tricky pressure sequences, it's really tricky to get away from him again.

95% of the kabals ive played are a breeze for my cage, i push them to the corner, the freddy players make mistakes.
But i believe that as KABALS begin to utilize his footsie and spacing advantage and the threat and insane amount of options nomad dash gives you, and the ability to variate his zoning tempo so that its not so predictable and easy to weave through and play footsies with you, i think it will be too overwhelming to deal with in tournament play.

I also believe that freddys zoning is so fundamentally broken that if executed properly (along with his annoying nms projectile/teleport runaway) that anyone without something significant like a teleport to get in has too small of a chance to bring into a tournament. I think because these three matchups are so bad, and also that sonya is a pain too and shes a better choice as a rushdown despite how boring she is makes him less viable then other chars fighting for top 10.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Every Character in the top 10 has the most of this qualities

good Counter-Zoning Ability (Kabal, Kung Lao, Freddy, Kenshi, Skarlet, Cyrax, Smoke)
Good Zoning Ability (Kabal, Freedy, Kenshi, Cyrax, Kitana, Skarlet)
Good Footsie tools (Kung Lao, Cyrax, Skarlet, Kitana, Kabal, Cage)
Fast Mid (Kabal, Cage, Sonya, Freedy)
Armor (Skarlet, Kenshi, Kabal, Sonya)
Acceptable Hitbox at least or smaller (Kung Lao, Skarlet, Sonya, Kabal, Smoke, Kabal)
Fast Mobility (Kung lao, Kabal, Skarlet, Cage)
less bad matchups (Kabal, Kung lao, Skarlet, Kenshi)
Resets (Cyrax, Kabal, Cage, Sonya, Skarlet, Smoke)
Aceptable or higher damage output( Cyrax, Freddy, Skarlet, Kitana, Smoke)
Shitty wakeup attacks (Kabal, Skarlet, Kitana, Cyrax)


Some of these characters don't even compare to the others in some things, but some of them are top 10 because they're so good in some aspects than others one that don't even matter.

Like is the case of Freddy and Kenshi having a big hitbox, but an overwhelming zoning.
Kabal having a more or less damage output but overwhelming tools that makes him on the upper hand all the time.
Sonya having incredibly footsies and be the peak of safe moves in this game with the best offensive of the game, best retarded launcher of the game.
Kung lao insane mobility, being completed by his fast strings.
Cyrax overwhelming unblockable resets with a very good damage output
Being that Sonya and Cage only lose to characters that can keep them out very well
Skarlet only lose to someone who can remain safe even after bad reads making her necessarily use more risky strategies
Smoke not being higher due lack of armor

to me, this top 10 will remain in the next years, some characters will only switch places between them

and then we have those characters who are getting in and out of the top 10, like Reptile, Jax, and Rayden constantly taking the 8, 9, and 10th on the tier list because we're not entirely sure if anything besides the top 5 or 7 is worth the top 10.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

NKZero I just want to say that cage does not have the best rushdown in the game..... kabal does. However, I agree with you that cage is a top 10 character.
Kabal
Kenshi
Cyrax
Freddy
Sonya
Smoke
Skarlet
Kung Lao
Cage
Reptile
That is my top 10 ( not in order although I have a tendency to think of them in order sort of). And I currently have both kabal and kenshi listed as 2-8s for cage. He just does so well vs everybody else, and he dominates the footsies game.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Eddy Wang alright I am just as much a sonya realist as there is. Actually I probably upplay her. But best offense in the game. No, kabal and cages are definetly better. She prob has top 5 offense though, along with cyrax and skarlet.

 

[Seven]

Stolen from Anti-Static
top 6
lao
sonya
kabal
kenshi
freddy
cyrax
7-10
smoke
skarlet
reptile
kitana
11-15
liu
cage
sektor
shang
jax

best i see him doing is 10 but i thik liu / sektor might surpass him.

It's funny cause you don't have Ermac on that list.