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$20 for anyone who can stand a smart argument of why cage is not in the same tier as sonya

Evil_Riu48

Evil_Riu48

Kombatant
yes i will pay $20 paypal to anyone who does this


after all you guys post for free here why not try to make some money out of it

it most be an smart argument with facts and not with some bs like there is more top sonya players or some bs like that

tag me in your post
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
While they may be in the same tier (S) I can give an argument of why he is worse. First I will ask you a question. Are there any matches you feel that Cage does better in than Sonya? Evil_Riu48
 
OZZYGUITAR

OZZYGUITAR

Back-dash Adam
cage and sonya are both in top tier imo, if that's what you're asking, i could argue sonya is better but, not so substantially better that she is a tier above cage
 
D

Death

Warrior
First of all I dont even think Sonya is S tier. I think shes 1 below S and in the same tier as Cage. I do think shes on the higher end of A+ while Cage is on the lower end.

Sonya does better vs Kenshi/Kabal. I personally think Sonya is 3-7 vs Kenshi and 4-6 vs Kabal. Supposedly Cage loses 2-8 to Kenshi and 3-7 to Kabal.

But other than that their not that much different.
 
Derptile

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Sonya
-Instant air divekick for a shit-ton of damage
-has a 7 frame jab
-Ex cartwheel is just broken and destroys the footsies game
-She does more damage than Cage
-touching your opponent with a d4 is a free MS which leads to a free mix up either being at +1, an overhead, or building half a bar of meter
-Ring toss is a viable zoning strategy
-d4 has retarded range and lowers your hitbox
-Better uppercut

I want that 20 dollaz
 
OZZYGUITAR

OZZYGUITAR

Back-dash Adam
HGTV Soapboxfan said:
Stop it. i already said that.
Click to expand...
LOL i posted it before i even saw your response, i can say this much tho, sonya is more difficult for me to deal with then cage, i have no answer for d4 in footsies, except throwing out a well spaced b2 on a risky read, i can punish cage for full combo on reaction with spear if he wiffs b3 or f3
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
OZZYGUITAR said:
LOL i posted it before i even saw your response, i can say this much tho, sonya is more difficult for me to deal with then cage, i have no answer for d4 in footsies, except throwing out a well spaced b2 on a risky read, i can punish cage for full combo on reaction with spear if he wiffs b3 or f3
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Our work is done here.
 
Lumpymoomilk

Lumpymoomilk

Online Punching Bag
Well for a couple of things, Cage if kept away has pretty mediocre zoning it's hard to trade unless you are fighting someone with really slow projectiles you could enhanced shadow kick but you don't even have armor full screen. en Cartwheel is better than pretty much any enhanced move cage because it's free get out of pressure and starts a combo, you can instant air divekick with almost no consequence that starts big damage combos, she has a better d4. The only thing cage really has over her is his ability to keep them standing so no wake up attacks at the end of a combo. But this is just my opinion. We are talking about Cage being lower tier right?
 
Evil_Riu48

Evil_Riu48

Kombatant
@Krayzie

yonya my have a faster jab by one frame but the second hit of the stream is high making really hard to use it to presure your opponent because they can mask a d1 taking no risk at all that does not happen with cage strings

yes sonya has better specials than cage but let not forget that cage has much better normals than sonya and that his reset is much better than sonya's reset for many reasons
 
Krayzie

Krayzie

Co-founder
Administrator
Founder
Evil_Riu48 said:
@Krayzie

yonya my have a faster jab by one frame but the second hit of the stream is high making really hard to use it to presure your opponent because they can mask a d1 taking no risk at all that does not happen with cage strings

yes sonya has better specials than cage but let not forget that cage has much better normals than sonya and that his reset is much better than sonya's reset for many reasons
Click to expand...
Both are nasty resets, and Sonya gets more damage before the reset though.

Anyway, the armored cartwheel is what makes the difference I feel. I know you still don't believe this, but due to this reason, Sonya goes 5-5 with Cyrax, and Cage loses. He doesn't have the projectile game she has, and he doesn't have the safe armor to blow on his either. This is a perfect example of why she is just slightly above him as a character.
 
Evil_Riu48

Evil_Riu48

Kombatant
Krayzie said:
Both are nasty resets, and Sonya gets more damage before the reset though.

Anyway, the armored cartwheel is what makes the difference I feel. I know you still don't believe this, but due to this reason, Sonya goes 5-5 with Cyrax, and Cage loses. He doesn't have the projectile game she has, and he doesn't have the safe armor to blow on his either. This is a perfect example of why she is just slightly above him as a character.
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1)cage gets a free jump on his reset sonya gets 3% chip damage with ms f1 while cage gets more chip damage and attent to a grab after the free jump and more damage with he feel like using one bar of meter while he is getting all that meter back at the same time. .. really how can you say sonya's reset is as good as cage's reset it makes no senses

2) you are talking about one matchup you should be looking at the whole cast

3) ex carltwheel is better than any armor cage has in my opinion yes cage has more ways to use his meter than sonya does

A) he use meter to does more damage and do more presure
b) he use meter to stop other characters like kabal and freddy from zoning him when he has the live lead in others words he can force this characters to come for him if they do not have enough life bar to take a ex shadow kick forcing them top play his game ... when sonya no mater if she has 3 bars and they only have 3% of life she to play their game and try to get in
3) ex nut punch my be on safe but it does not change the fact that cage can use it to stop people from rushing him down. .. yes he is taking risk but his reward is really good if ytou think about it . . . ex nutpunch 14%-15% + jumping puch 11f1 and back on where he want you
 
Konqrr

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Evil_Riu48

While Cage's pressure is extremely good, if you know the frame data you can poke your way out. That in itself is a metagame that Cage can use to counter poke with f3, but that is all about making reads. He has no truly useful armor, only EX Nut Punch which is punishable. Cage's reset into optimal chip after requires him to do a crossup jump punch which keeps his opponent out of the corner at times.

Sonya has instant Dive Kick which is 4 frame startup and is always a threat, but very punishable. The threat of Dive Kick gives her opportunities to get jump ins which give her meter, chip damage, and a free mixup. One of the mixup options leave her at +1 on block or 9% on hit. She has EX Cartwheel which has armor and blows through attacks giving her a full combo and a reset which builds nearly half of a bar back. It is also -3 so it is safe. If it is blocked and she has another bar, there is always the threat of another one so your opponent has to be careful poking. That hesitation gives her d4~ms into mixup and chip damage and meter build.. All of her combos push her opponent closer to the corner. Sure, her jabs hit high, but they are not her main pressure tool. d4~ms is. Sonya's uppercut is among the best in the game. It even hits behind her and comes out extremely fast.

Sonya can zone safely where Cage cannot unless they are fullscreen.

The difference is that in Sonya's bad matchups, she has EX Cartwheel and that armor that allows her to get in where Cage cannot. She also has the threat of Dive Kick to give her jump in opportunities that other characters do not have.

Sonya is overall more solid and has more options to get in than Cage does.
 
Evil_Riu48

Evil_Riu48

Kombatant
guys the argument here is why they are not in the same tier

the argument here is not who is better look like some of you do not know the differents

i ll reply to everyone as fast as i can because i am at work right now
 
CRUM

CRUM

Warrior
Derptile said:
Sonya
-Instant air divekick for a shit-ton of damage
-has a 7 frame jab
-Ex cartwheel is just broken and destroys the footsies game
-She does more damage than Cage
-touching your opponent with a d4 is a free MS which leads to a free mix up either being at +1, an overhead, or building half a bar of meter
-Ring toss is a viable zoning strategy
-d4 has retarded range and lowers your hitbox
-Better uppercut

I want that 20 dollaz
Click to expand...
Agreed and he wins the thread. Cage does not have as many options as Sonya and EX Cartwheel is better than EX nut punch IMO.
 
Smarrgasm

Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
Alright lets delve into this a little. Both sonya and cage are considered to be "rushdown" oriented characters while cage focuses more on getting in and staying in while sonya plays more towards mixups and being able to hurt you in multiple ways.

Offensive Differences- Cage has a 9 frame mid hitting attack that can be staggered for ridiculous offense. Not to mention 2 jabs under nine frames that one is an overhead launcher and the other can end in +3. Sonya has her D4 with its ludicrous range, the ability to cancel almost all strings into MS for a mixup or shenanigans that play insane mind games while also doing huge chip and meter building. She makes you scared to poke even cause of the threat of the dive kick and her ability to Ex-cartwheel as an offensive tool makes her insanely scary to be next to. She can also be put at advantage by a couple things but they are not as reliable frame traps as cages.However, none of her strings hit true mid and all of them have gaps at some point or another making most of her offense revolve only around d4. Tie.

Zoning Differences-This is where sonya i believe really outclasses cage and would be another reason i see them being in different levels of the tier list. Her projectile has insane recovery and helps her to keep at least some kind of zoning battle when she is not rushing in. So basically once you get her off you then she is still not very bothered cause she has a great projectile and meter building abilities at full screen. Cage on the other hand has a terrible projectile that is extremely slow and pretty easily avoided. Advantage Sonya.

Footsie Differences- Both characters have pretty insane footsies. Cage and sonya both have a crazy dash speed and some forward advancing strings to help them get in. On top of her other stuff, Sonya also has a diveckick and some ridiculously good mobile armor in Ex-cartwheel. With a dash Ex-cartwheel can cover almost 3/4 of a screen. The divekick is the best whiff punisher in the game for 40% + a reset that can leave her at advantage for a free mixup. She has a 7 frame uppercut that is probably the most reliabel AA in the game (and brings possible toastys) while also having another 7 frame jab. Advantage Sonya.

Misc Differences- This is where it gets kind of tricky. Sonya is said to have only 3 bad MU's which cage also shares (freddy, Kenshi, Kabal). However, people believe that cage has more bad MUs such as sub zero and sonya herself. Cage is a monster up close but other than that he doesn not have much going for him. He has more bad MUs than sonya (sub, Cyrax, herself, maybe kit) which would take him more toward the A+ range than the S range. For MUs overall, people usually know that if you lose to cage, you lose to sonya and probably worse. Thus why she beats characters like raiden and reptile worse than cage does. LBSH, this girl is insanely broken at every turn. Cage you at least know that you gotta keep him of you. She is almost comfortable anywhere which is scary.

I thinks when it comes down to it they each have insane strengths that would put them around the same in the tier list. But sonya just has more going for her and does better against the top tier than cage does for the most part. Sonya #3 and Cage #7 Putting cage A+ and Sonya S.

How did i do?
 
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