I'd like to start off with the fact that I love women. ALL women. It is with this love in mind that I say: Equal rights is right. Feminism is glorified male bashing.
I think the larger issue here is how we as human beings percieve our own bodies. A good example of this just a few posts ago when talking aobut Samus's end game image.
Only one?
What about Metroid 2? Huge boobs and a thong.
Metroid and Metroid II are before her character were developed. Super Metroid and then on out she really didn't appear that slutty. Even then its not like she fought and did everything looking like that.
Seamus is automatically characterized as "slutty" simply because she is in her underwear. I don't see anything slutty here. Sure, there is a lot of skin on display, but nothing really suggestive going on. I have seen a variety of posts in this thread similar to this that show that people on both sides of this argument don't understand exactly what it is they want or are fighting for.
My take on the female view of this subject is that these same females that are devaluing their own gender arguably more than males are simply by focusing on the fact that the women portrayed in various media are attractive and know how to flaunt it. There is no discussion about the character's strengths, flaws, or anything else. They are simply written off as fanboi eyecandy or fapping material.
Now, before you go off on me as a pervert or sex fiend or mysogynistic pig, let me give you an example. I love the Soul Caliber series and I main Ivy. Now in SC2, Ivy had a one-pice bathing suit made of leather for her armor. Given her weapon of choice and watching her move, it is totally realistic that Ivy would wear something like that since total freedom of movement is what keeps her alive so wearing restrictive battle armor would not be a smart idea. Also, Ivy is and extremely smart woman in addition to her more visual assets. She would well know that in a profession such as hers, the majority of her opponents would be male. It is reasonable to assume that a revealing (read: distracting) attire choice; it could mean the difference between life and death in battle. SC3 had a similar-styled outfit but with more thinner material and some sections that were see-through. Still not overtly sexual, but admittedly heading in that direction. I could defend these attires. SC4 comes out and even I had to throw my hands up and admit defeat. That attire was just too much fanservice. These are discussions on this subject that just don't happen. Noone analyzes
why the characters are dressed like that in case there might actually be a good reason for it and then they can't assault it.
My mom is such a strong individual that I'm sure Xena Warrior Princess would run scared from her. From what I am reading here, I should never have been born since my mother is considered by many as attractive: successful, strong will, charismatic, with at least a DD chest. So my mom shouldn't have been objectified and desired because she possesses all of the traits that men look for in a perfect mating partner?
Actually, speaking of my mom, here's a funny story from when I was younger. I worked for a time as a movie extra. I wanted to be an actor/model myself. One of my first gigs was on this movie that was set in the modelling world. I was doing this scene that was backstage at a modelling show and there was a lot of professional models running around in their underwear. I'll be honest, I nearly fainted when some came close. No butchy, alpha male here. Anyway, after I got home, I called my mom (this is after years of her giving me her opinions on models, the modelling industry, etc.)
Me: Hey mom!
Mom: HI hunny! How'd it go?
Me: Hey mom, you remember all that stuff youtold me about models not looking like their pictures?
Mom: I lied.
*both of us laugh*
To try to wander in the direction of back on topic, in North America we live in a conservative majority. There are so many people out there telling us that our bodies are disgusting and that sex is bad and so on. So it's no surprise that we look for it in the pages of Playboy or Hollywood films or even our video games. What's the best way to get someone to do something? Tell them they aren't allowed. the big crime here isn't adult magazines, movies or games, it's the fact that there's noone putting it into perspective for us.
Look at the pages of "the bible": Cosmo magazine. All the images there are of physically "perfect" specimens of femininity. They tell us that if you wear this perfume and that hairstyle with the other dress and no man will resist you. What noone is telling you is that you don't need to look exactly the same as that model to be attractive. It's like us playing MK: you train and level up to be better and you keep a picture of a good player you respect in mind to emulate. Same thing here. These magazines give suggestions and tips on how to improve YOURSELF but neglect to remind you of this. So women get depressed and have warped self images because they don't look like the girls in Cosmo when noone is really expecting them to.
Another issue I see happening (well it's basically the same issue but a flip side of it) is the cattiness. The whole disregarding of women in the advent of plastic surgery and Photoshop. I think that it's really disturbing that both men and women assume that a woman with breasts bigger than an A cup have to be surgically enhanced. Angelina Jolie must have botox since lips like that don't fall from tress. Why can't a woman be that attractive naturally? Why can't Denise Milani, Jordan Carver and Leanne Crow have all-natural FFF breasts? More importantly, why do they have to be attacked by both genders because of what they were born with?
All this to lay the groundwork for the topic at hand.
I think it was Mayo that had it half right when he said that women in games were fantasies. The entire game is a fantasy! Where in the real world are you gonna see Reptile running around force balling a 4-armed dragon-woman? Gaming is an escape, a release; along with comics, movies, etc. What people don't focus on is that fact that both male and female characters are just as objectified as the other gender is. The difference being is the social mores of the audience. As was also mentioned earlier in this thread, pretty much through the entireity of human history, males have been the "dominant" gender (and I use that term
extremely loosely). So the perspective is that while men use their sexuality much the same as women do, it is socially acceptable for men to do so simply because it's been like that for hundreds of years.
Some examples to illustrate:
- A top male executive that is promoted because he still has a full head of hair. He is still seen as being young and virile.
- A man with a good physique wearing a shirt a little tighter than normal to the office to impress the new hottie at reception or to make a sale with a female client.
- Shannon Tweed dating Gene Simmons simply because he was a world famous (and rich) rock star. She admitted in an interview that she never would have looked at him twice if he wasn't.
Compare these to:
- My cousin, who was working as a waitress at the time got a rare evening shift (she usually worked days). She undid one extra button on her blouse knowing she would get bigger tips.
None of these examples involve anything sordid. In fact, they are all quite innocent. But I bet that everyone's natural reaction to reading these noone thought to blame the male in any of them.
Now how does all this insane ranting relate to girls in gaming? Simple, it's how we view it. The men are just as objecified. The victory poses are just as silly as the females', they just aren't the exact same poses. Seeing Mai Shiranui do Blanka's victory pose is just as stoopid as seeing Bass Armstrong bouncing around like Chun Li.
The entire thing is a fantasy. The males are alpha-male examples of what men are told we are supposed to be just as the women are alpha-female examples of what women are told they should be. Once again with noone telling us that we don't NEED to be like that. Gaming is also a strange dichotomy in that while we know it isn't real, it affords us the oppportunity to "simulate" what it would be like to be a Duke Nukem or a Lara Croft or whatever character that you secretly wish you could be like or would like to emulate in your real life. Would you really like to play as a fat, out-of-shape sweathog or your bon bon-eating ugly step-sister? Neither would I. Another thing to consider is, presumably you will be spending many hours playing said game. Wouldn't that time go by faster with something visually appealing in front of you? If any of you dare try to lie I'll upload my vid of when I opened my first stick. I accidentally mis-framed the shot and got like 3.5 mins of my fat, furry gut.
My personal pholosophy is: KNOW what you're getting yourself into when you make decisions and take responsibility for your part in it. I believe that a woman should feel comfortable and safe enough that she could go to a club wearing nothing but stilettoes and a smile and not get attacked. By the same token, if said female was to decide to do this very thing, she has to understand that people will be looking and talking about her. Now I'm not saying it's anyone's fault, it's just knowledge of human nature. Here's another example:
My roommate has an attractive daughter. They would go to the mall to shop and sometimes she would purposely walk a few steps behind her daughter, just to see all the boys checking her out. Then later, they would talk: "Did you see all those boys looking at you?" "Yeah mom. And it's pathetic". My response to that is: "If you don't want the boys ogling you like that, then why do you spend 2 hrs in the morning on hair and makeup?" It's like sitting down to an awesome dinner and someone tells you you're sick because you feel hungry. Take my earlier example with my cousin; she wasn't doing anything overt to gain extra attention and money, all she did was leave one extra button undone and conducted herself the same as usual.
Now that I've wandered back off topic, basically the whole thing is made to be a bigger deal than it really is. We just need more people to remind us that it's just a game/movie/show and that we are beautiful human beings JUST THE WAY WE ARE!
But if you really want something to complain about, let's talk writing. 3rd Birthday on the psp or the upcoming Toumb Raider reboot as good examples of weak and rapeable characters that need to be re-rewritten....
