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Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage Mu chart

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
Time & time I see someone explain a zoner vs. Cage mu like this & so I will reply with the same thing everyone says,

in that case: Kenshi v Cage would be 5-5. Kabal v Cage is 5-5 etc.
because kenshi is all zoner and ermac isnt.
those two have more tools to keep him out and ermac has just enough.
dont delude yourself and say he doesnt. like youve never been lamed out before.
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
sorry bruh, but dizzy > you with cage. He has the results and resume to prove it. You keep underestimating characters, you'll regret that when a char you underestimate winds up eliminating you. Also maxter's best char is cyrax, he plays a high lvl cage, but he goes to maxter when it gets clutch.
See that's ignorant right there. I told you we don't play the same. He can play a MU worse than I can or could have less experience than me. Like I said I don't give a shit if you think he is better or maybe if he is, YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED MY CAGE. Don't be retarded and say that just because he's better than me he knows more than me in every cage topic because I bet you he doesn't. tyrant imo has a better jax than daddy dab and a lot of people would prolly agree with me, yet dab knows more in the jax mirror and beat tyrant. So your logic doesn't make sense.
 

SatsuiYesHadou

Yung Kneecaps
See that's ignorant right there. I told you we don't play the same. He can play a MU worse than I can or could have less experience than me. Like I said I don't give a shit if you think he is better or maybe if he is, YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED MY CAGE. Don't be retarded and say that just because he's better than me he knows more than me in every cage topic because I bet you he doesn't. tyrant imo has a better jax than daddy dab and a lot of people would prolly agree with me, yet dab knows more in the jax mirror and beat tyrant. So your logic doesn't make sense.
Guess I'm not good enough of a cage to tag but I just had to say if curbo was able to make it out to tournaments then this would probably be a different story. Don't forget he started this entire cage bandwagon to begin with. Not saying anyone is better but it would be debatable of who's the best cage
 
I'm not very active, but I feel like giving my 2 cents. I'm pretty good at theory fighting x]. For the most part, I agree with MITDJT. I will highlight changes, and attempt to justify why, or at least ask questions.


Scorpion: 7-3 - I am torn on this. Anyone tell me why Cage dominates this matchup? I thought it was 6-4 but I don't have a plethora of Scorpion experience.
Sub-Zero: 4-6
Reptile: 6-4 - I thought this was 5-5 at best, virtually no Reptile experience, I would like to know how cage wins this one.
Ermac: 6-4
Noob: 6-4
Smoke: 6-4
Rain: 5-5
Mileena: 6-4
Kitana: 5-5
Jade: 6-4
Skarlet: 5-5
Sektor: 5-5
Cyrax: 4-6
Cyber Sub: 5-5
Kenshi: 3-7
Freddy: 3-7 -I thought this to be a heavy 6-4 in Freddy's favor, but 7-3 I can see.
Sindel: 6-4
Sonya: 4-6
Jax: 6-4
Stryker: 6-4
Liu Kang: 5-5
Kung Lao: 6-4 - Why? Its risky for cage to over commit up close, especially being p2. You really have to be spot on. This match is a guessing game imo, Lao can pressure you with less risk than you can pressure him, and definitely better zoning. Sure you can bait things, but that goes both ways. Cage can punish Lao whiffs and punish better and is about the same on the footsie scale. I think this matchup played correctly by both players is 5-5, maybe slight advantage to cage, but I don't believe its enough to justify a 6-4. I would love any input on this though :)
Kano: 7-3
Nightwolf: 7-3
Kabal: 3-7
Baraka: 6-4
Shang Tsung: 5-5
Quan Chi: 7-3
Raiden: 6-4
Sheeva: 7-3
 

CRUM

Warrior
Kung Lao: 6-4 - Why? Its risky for cage to over commit up close, especially being p2. You really have to be spot on. This match is a guessing game imo, Lao can pressure you with less risk than you can pressure him, and definitely better zoning. Sure you can bait things, but that goes both ways. Cage can punish Lao whiffs and punish better and is about the same on the footsie scale. I think this matchup played correctly by both players is 5-5, maybe slight advantage to cage, but I don't believe its enough to justify a 6-4. I would love any input on this though :)
From personal experience this matchup is the epitome of a 6-4. Lao cannot poke nor jump out of Cage's pressure. His d3 is too slow and if you even try to jump your going to get AA'd into another nut punch and more pressure. Cage's forceball traps prevent a spin. The best thing Lao can do is based off randomness. Try to Tele 3 and Divekick his way around the map and just hope he can covert a combo. Delayed teleport-3 leaves Lao open to a b3 or d1 into full combo or a simple uppercut. Lao cannot zone and Cage is simply 10 times better up close. Lao cannot pressure Cage up close in this matchup. All he has to work with is a spin and a prayer. And a spin is risky as hell considering how badly he gets punished on whiff. That's just my personal take on it.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
I'm not very active, but I feel like giving my 2 cents. I'm pretty good at theory fighting x]. For the most part, I agree with MITDJT. I will highlight changes, and attempt to justify why, or at least ask questions.


Scorpion: 7-3 - I am torn on this. Anyone tell me why Cage dominates this matchup? I thought it was 6-4 but I don't have a plethora of Scorpion experience.
Cage dominates this matchup because he has better footsies and scorpion has a ridiculously difficult time getting out of pressure. b3 and fwd 3 blow scorpions b2 and fwd4 out of the water in footsies and are much less punishable. His d3 is negative on hit so he has to d1, which doesn't really get him anything. So he has to try to use extremely punishable armor. Since cage ends his combos with pressure, the vortex guessing game is in cage's favor fairly significantly. Thats the basics of it.
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
his pressure is ass vs low hitbox chars like cage.
the way i look at it, i dont start the match glued to your knee. i say i have forceball, push, teleport, the longest range throw, and the 3rd fastest walk speed to keep you out. you guys are like," ive got, um, redkick, which doesnt get me in , and um, a deep jumpick combo thats a lil risky.... cage vs ermac 6-4"
i have already admitted to saying you guys dont do just well if u get in, but win!!! cant you guys admit how easy it is to lame out cage... i mean lets be real, it's super easy!! dude probably one of the easiest chars to do it to.
 

Peckapowa

Champion
the way i look at it, i dont start the match glued to your knee. i say i have forceball, push, teleport, the longest range throw, and the 3rd fastest walk speed to keep you out. you guys are like," ive got, um, redkick, which doesnt get me in , and um, a deep jumpick combo thats a lil risky.... cage vs ermac 6-4"
i have already admitted to saying you guys dont do just well if u get in, but win!!! cant you guys admit how easy it is to lame out cage...
you stated he had good rushdown, i said his rushdown was bad vs cage due to his hitbox, then you just proceeded to give me this jibber jabber which i have nothing to do with nor have i said anything in regards to.
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
you stated he had good rushdown, i said his rushdown was bad vs cage due to his hitbox, then you just proceeded to give me this jibber jabber which i have nothing to do with nor have i said anything in regards to.
i thought you were representing cage , but dude 31 is old news, f2 frame trap is the future lol that hits people crouching
 
From personal experience this matchup is the epitome of a 6-4. Lao cannot poke nor jump out of Cage's pressure. His d3 is too slow and if you even try to jump your going to get AA'd into another nut punch and more pressure. Cage's forceball traps prevent a spin. The best thing Lao can do is based off randomness. Try to Tele 3 and Divekick his way around the map and just hope he can covert a combo. Delayed teleport-3 leaves Lao open to a b3 or d1 into full combo or a simple uppercut. Lao cannot zone and Cage is simply 10 times better up close. Lao cannot pressure Cage up close in this matchup. All he has to work with is a spin and a prayer. And a spin is risky as hell considering how badly he gets punished on whiff. That's just my personal take on it.
Thanks for the input! I agree it has to be kind of random for KL to win the match, but the threat can really keep JC on his toes, unless he follows the "Don't be scared" rule #1 to a tee, which he should. I see what you're saying though, thanks again for the input.


Cage dominates this matchup because he has better footsies and scorpion has a ridiculously difficult time getting out of pressure. b3 and fwd 3 blow scorpions b2 and fwd4 out of the water in footsies and are much less punishable. His d3 is negative on hit so he has to d1, which doesn't really get him anything. So he has to try to use extremely punishable armor. Since cage ends his combos with pressure, the vortex guessing game is in cage's favor fairly significantly. Thats the basics of it.
Yeah, I figured so, I just thought because of the nature of Scorpions playstyle in general it would be hard to dominate him like that, but I can see that. I thought it was a heavy 6-4 in cages favor anyways.
 

Peckapowa

Champion
because kenshi is all zoner and ermac isnt.
those two have more tools to keep him out and ermac has just enough.
dont delude yourself and say he doesnt. like youve never been lamed out before.

kenshi has far superior rushdown, with faradvancing low starters, far advancing neutral overheads which frame trap at max distance, strings like 21b2 which he can staggered and mixed with his low or just end(or cancel at the end of with shoulder) and put himself in perfect position for a shoulder which if respected can be followed up with frametrapping overheads, if its blocked it can be spammed again or shoulder. he has superior zoning to ermac, kenshi has amazing frametrapping and combo starting armor also... the only thing ermac has better than kenshi is a really unsafe teleport. kenshi isnt all zoning.... kenshi is jesus christ reincarnated

did i mention he can essentially perfectly safely cancel his pokes into shoulder?
 

Peckapowa

Champion
i thought you were representing cage , but dude 31 is old news, f2 frame trap is the future lol that hits people crouching


f2 is plus 3 and not that fast, its a very mediocre guessing game and has too much pushback to even grant him anything which he cant do...
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
kenshi has far superior rushdown, with faradvancing low starters, far advancing neutral overheads which frame trap at max distance, strings like 21b2 which he can staggered and mixed with his low or just end(or cancel at the end of with shoulder) and put himself in perfect position for a shoulder which if respected can be followed up with frametrapping overheads, if its blocked it can be spammed again or shoulder. he has superior zoning to ermac, kenshi has amazing frametrapping and combo starting armor also... the only thing ermac has better than kenshi is a really unsafe teleport. kenshi isnt all zoning.... kenshi is jesus christ reincarnated

did i mention he can essentially perfectly safely cancel his pokes into shoulder?
yes, i knew the kenshi match-up was bad for him, but to simply say ermac is 6-4 is kind of ignorant
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
f2 is plus 3 and not that fast, its a very mediocre guessing game and has too much pushback to even grant him anything which he cant do...
f2 iafb, frame trap, safe, establishes footsie distance in favor of ermac.
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
could i not back dash and whiff punish this? its not really rushdown either, not saying it isnt a viable tactic
maybe f2, but f2 on block guarantees an iafb, if iafb hits you risk being sent full screen.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
how does 11f1 work as a frame trap...i mean what is safe for cage to do after that and what can the opponent do to escape?
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
sorry bruh, but dizzy > you with cage. He has the results and resume to prove it. You keep underestimating characters, you'll regret that when a char you underestimate winds up eliminating you. Also maxter's best char is cyrax, he plays a high lvl cage, but he goes to maxter when it gets clutch.
Maxter goes to Maxter when it's clutch? That's cool lol :)
No but seriously tho, Curbo beat DJT at EVO Sub vs Cage, so he almost knows what he is talking about when it comes to this matchup