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Pros and Cons (Project)

xInfra Deadx

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
The KL section needs to be fixed up as there's a pro and con contradicting themselves (about the zoning which he CANNOT BE ZONED OUT CONSISTENTLY). Also the part about Reptile's ED being a wakeup needs to be removed.

Another thing, You got Reptile listed twice in the OP.
 
PKM TheFury

PKM TheFury

Noob
xInfra Deadx said:
The KL section needs to be fixed up as there's a pro and con contradicting themselves (about the zoning which he CANNOT BE ZONED OUT CONSISTENTLY). Also the part about Reptile's ED being a wakeup needs to be removed.

Another thing, You got Reptile listed twice in the OP.
Click to expand...
I already fixed the Reptile thing, thanks.
There's no such thing in KL section, ED is not a wakeup?
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Alien Substance said:
Liu Kang

Pros:
+ Many strings are either neutral or unpunishable on block.
+ Good mixup game.
+ Simple combos that deal acceptable damage.
+ Good projectiles, and has aerial control with iaFireballs.
+ Ability to play both zoning and rushdown.
+ Uppercut has long vertical range.
+ Has a Parry.
+ Easy to pick up.
+ If played right, Liu Kang vs Kabal can be an almost even game.

Cons:
- If rendered either unable to zone or rushdown, half of Liu's game is thrown out the window.
- Wakeup game is not so good.
- His hitbox includes the headband.
- Uppercut lacks horizontal range.
- Parry has an 8-frame startup, where Liu can be attacked before it activates.
- Hard to master.
Click to expand...
Lose the first and last cons... that pretty much applies to everyone.

And I'm not sure the Parry should be a pro as it's a pretty bad one. It's nothing like CSZ's :(
 
Alien Substance

Alien Substance

Evanesce
STB Sgt Reed said:
Lose the first and last cons... that pretty much applies to everyone.

And I'm not sure the Parry should be a pro as it's a pretty bad one. It's nothing like CSZ's :(
Click to expand...
Nearly every single one of his strings are either neutral or unpunishable, even when the string is unfinished.

Maybe so, but it did help me in a few instances. Such as, in a clutch-moment, Parried CSZ's Dive-Kick.
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
PKM TheFury

Some of those things listed in Sub Zero's list were not submitted by me.

He does have anti-zoning with ice blast trades. You have to read they are throwing a projectile and throw yours first unless they have bad recovery like Noob.

He doesn't have a terrible wakeup game. Clone and slide aren't that bad as wakeup options.

Ice Puddle should not be under pros... that's why I made a new category.
 
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Since nobody else has done it..

Noob Saibot
Pros:
-Safe 50/50 fullscreen
-Decent mindgames with Portal
-Very potent corner game with numerous resets
-Upknee's block advantage ranges from +4 to +10, at max range you are all but guaranteed a free tackle(11 frames)
-Safe string cancels to give him a decent neutral game
-One of the best defensive/AA tools in the game
-Very easy execution-wise
-Great throw that lets him start zoning again

Cons:
-50/50 is dangerously unsafe up close
-Horrible recovery time, probably his biggest setback
-Lowest damage output in the game
-Relatively slow combos outside of 12/212
-Portal mind games aren't the best of gimmicks, and Ghostball is pretty much useless
-Mediocre pokes
-Requires more thought than most, if not all of the cast, NO room for mistakes
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Mikemetroid said:
Johnny Cage
Pros:
+Always either neutral or positive in pressure strings
+Builds meter from his crazy pressure game
+f3; a normal thats a special mid and is neutral on block: links to either 1, Frame trap with ex fb, 2, an overhead that has a lot of advantage, 3, a nut punch which f33nutpunch does %20
+All combo enders ending with nut punch can get a free jump punch
+Ex nut punch has invulnerability frames
+High Damage Xray
+High Damage Combos (bnb is just under %40 without counting chip damage)
+Dash is fast and covers a good amount of distance
+7 Frame uppercut

Cons:
-Forceball is garbage, Cage is pretty much useless if he is far away.
-Some normals can be done on accident, like f2 which puts Cage at a serious disadvantage
-Ex Shadow Kick doesn't have full armor
-Zoners will destroy you, mainly Kenshi, Kabal, and Freddy Krueger
-If your sunglasses break during the fight, you will not get the *ding* sound when you win
Click to expand...
So that's why I don't get the ding noise! :(
 
Squeaker101

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
STB Sgt Reed said:
Lose the first and last cons... that pretty much applies to everyone.

And I'm not sure the Parry should be a pro as it's a pretty bad one. It's nothing like CSZ's :(
Click to expand...
While it does apply to everyone, he gets hit really hard. Both zoning and pressuring game are 60% of his game.

As for mastery, you need to know the ins and outs like your paycheck. Liu's zoning is very hard to master, which is 60% of his game.
 
Red Son

Red Son

Noob
PKM TheFury Totally agree, it's a plus that Smoke has, it doesn't make him worst does it?

Kenshi

Pros:
+ Top 5 best zoning in the game, no doubt about it.
+ Great pressure and mixup game.
+ Fast start normal, at 8 frames, that put the opponent where Kenshi wants him to be. (Spirit Charge)
+ EX Spirit Charge is one of the best EX moves in the game. (Top 5 of course).
+ Amazing AAs.
+ Great footsies.

Cons:
- Can have trouble in close range against some characters.
- Ridiculous mobility
- His anti-zoning mechanics are useless against Kabal.
- Needs metter.
- Not good wakeup game in close range
 
Alien Substance

Alien Substance

Evanesce
PKM TheFury said:
Pros:
+ Crazy high-damage output. Capable of damage ranges from 39 to 65% midscreen.
+ Can deal over 30% from a successful AA.
+ Golden Fleece is the best parry in the PS3 game. Can parry projectiles and melee attacks, like Smoke's EX Shake.
Ranged parry launches an unblockable projectile, melee parry is dash-cancelable into any of Kratos' combos.
+ Apollo's Bow does 12% damage; same as an uppercut, Bow of Apollo is unpunishable at point-blank.
+ Head of Helios can work as a reset during a juggle combo.
+ Enhanced Hermes Dash grants Kratos a Flash Parry, similar to Kabal.
+ Zeus' Rage has a ridiculous, long-reaching hitbox.
+ Kratos vs Kabal matchup is currently a 4-6, and a possible 5-5.

Cons:
- Very slow attacks and specials compared to most of the roster. This is Kratos' second-biggest downfall.
- Slow speed renders a heavy rushdown playstyle an unwise idea.
- Most of Kratos' attacks and specials are quite unsafe on block.
- Golden Fleece cannot parry pokes and most low-hitting attacks.
- Bad pokes.
- Higher learning-curve than most of the roster.
- Kratos vs Kenshi MU is probably a 2-8.
- Kratos is banned in all tournaments, due to being a PS3-exclusive fighter. This is his biggest downfall.
Click to expand...
I'd like to make a few small edits to Kratos' Pros and Cons.

+Can deal over 30% from a successful AA.
Edit to: +Has a 40% AA BnB combo.

+Kratos vs Kabal matchup is currently a 4-6, and a possible 5-5.
Edit to: +Kratos vs Kabal matchup is 4-6 with the odds towards Kabal.

-Kratos vs Kenshi MU is probably a 2-8.
Edit to: -Kenshi is his worst matchup, likely being 2-8 in Kenshi's favor.

------------
Great work on coming up with this project, by the way!
 
Wildabeast

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
I guess I'll contribute a little to Raiden since his box seems to be empty:

Pros:
- Excellent footsies and whiff punishing
- Great mind games
- Cannot be cornered or contained for any prolonged amount of time
- Easily the best character in the game when it comes to sitting on a life lead

Cons:
- Offensive game has numerous holes
- Zoning options are week as well
- Giant ass hit box
- Garbage D4
 
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