Ok these guys hacked SFIII arc rom...

[SplashChick]

Ah.. This thread is cool again, lots of good stuff here. Thx Shock and Konqrr. The name should be changed "Now talking Sektor" or wathever char topic.

It's still on topic, we're trying to figure out a way that Sektor could be properly balanced in a rebalanced UMK3 hack.

 

[Shock]

What if Smart Missiles made them flip like a Forceball or something? Something I'd like to stay away from is unblockable backwards stun. It can be useful, but after games like MKD, it really just made it nonsense. It seemed like you combo specials after any move that caused walk back stun, or maybe, the walkback stun is unblockable if they get hit while attack like the Bike Kick? This would allow a free teleport uppercut only in that scenario, so Sektor users would still need to know for sure they counter hit with a Smart Missile, else the teleport is a waste. Oh, and fix the stupid P2 glitch, I don't remember if I mentioned that, and while we're at it, fix it for Jax too, so he can do Dash Punches while charging Ground Pound on P2.

 

[Shock]

Oh and reduce the recovery time on Kitana's fan lift, which is ridiculously long. Somewhere between MKII and UMK3 would be fine.

 

[marv]

Someone should make a wikipage from this thread. "Things we'd tweak in UMK3" or something along those lines.

 

[MKK hanzo]

It's still on topic, we're trying to figure out a way that Sektor could be properly balanced in a rebalanced UMK3 hack.

Yes I tried to say that. My bad, i didnt mean sarcasm...

 

[SYNIC]

i got some tweaks 4 the 2 main chars i play kabal & rsmoke.

for kabal... add dp and move his hitbox behind his model when he does the spin. i think its dumb when someone is full screen walking back and you do his spin and when it slightly touches their shoulder and you dont pass through them they start spinning. kabal has to completely pass through them in order to make them spin. so they can beat it out easily by doing lps/hps whatever just like you can to strykers ffhk since kabal will be vulnerable. isnt this kind of how strykers ffhk special works? correct me if im wrong.

oh and undo some of the saw blade nerfs 2 compensate. maybe remove the pink glow on the start up frames too cuz that looks retarded.


for rsmoke... i like the invis time limit idea but i think that should be given to reptile instead. why not just make rsmoke have infinite invis time but let his smoke effect appear even when he goes invis? so that way you can tell if hes sitting across the screen but you cant see his normals at all like sweeps, lps, hps, hks, etc.

 

[Shock]

i got some tweaks 4 the 2 main chars i play kabal & rsmoke.

for kabal... add dp and move his hitbox behind his model when he does the spin. i think its dumb when someone is full screen walking back and you do his spin and when it slightly touches their shoulder and you dont pass through them they start spinning. kabal has to completely pass through them in order to make them spin. so they can beat it out easily by doing lps/hps whatever just like you can to strykers ffhk since kabal will be vulnerable. isnt this kind of how strykers ffhk special works? correct me if im wrong.

oh and undo some of the saw blade nerfs 2 compensate. maybe remove the pink glow on the start up frames too cuz that looks retarded.


for rsmoke... i like the invis time limit idea but i think that should be given to reptile instead. why not just make rsmoke have infinite invis time but let his smoke effect appear even when he goes invis? so that way you can tell if hes sitting across the screen but you cant see his normals at all like sweeps, lps, hps, hks, etc.

Some good ideas in there REO. Keeping the smoke for R Smoke is interesting but I don't think players would like that very much. Editing Kabal's collision for the spin might be necessary although if you make it too narrow, he will just push them and the spin will never make contact. There are definitely ways to do it. I think reducing the overall time the Spin has collision, for example making the start up 9 frames instead of 6 would change things a bit.

The first 3 frames are the sprite you pressed LK on moving, the next 3 frames are running animation and then it makes contact, but there are 3 more frames of running animation after that before he actually changes into the unique animation for the dash of the spin itself, ie: when the sprite becomes slanted forward and the blur starts to appear. I think if it made contact on the 9th frame it would be more reasonable. It might also be reasonable to give Kabal dizzy but blockable animation if he completely misses the spin.

Getting back to reducing the overall duration of the spin's collision, perhaps make it only be active between the first frame he's in the dash animation until blur is at the max width, and once it starts to disappear it won't get that grazing hit from full screen if you're walking back. Currently the spin has about 23 total frames of collision where it can grab the opponent, it's hard to get the exact count but I'll try later. I think it could be cut down to 15 but taking a few off the beginning and some more off the end.

 

[Konqrr]

I think that Kabal's spin should, like you said, have more startup...but also move slightly slower across the screen, maybe even make it travel a shorter distance, 3/4 screen instead of one full screen? Also, it ALWAYS needs to cause DP. Nerf that bitch, but put his auto combo back to full MK3 damage. Saw blade should stay on the screen if it appears, even if Kabal is hit because right now it is completely useless.

I really like REO's idea for RoboSmoke's Invisibility...keeping the smoke on him. You still don't know what moves he is doing and he clearly has the advantage while invisible. Maybe have him be completely invisible for a few seconds, then have the smoke clouds appear? Something to make it less dominating.

Sektor really needs only two fixes and he will be much better:

* Faster recovery on seeker missile
* Optional built-in seeker missile after popup (like HP, HP, d+LP, b+HP). He goes directly into the seeker and recovers in time to combo more.

This may require DP on all combo hits after seeker connects though. Maybe not?

 

[Shock]

The Sektor stuff would really have to be tested hard.

As for Kabal, it's getting to the point where we might as well take the spin away entirely. I think DP on the spin, and the extra start up frames would do wonders, giving him back MK3 damage would then bring him back to UMK3 damage on a pop up basically so he wouldn't lose much there. If his damage was kept as is but DPed from the spin, he could only do about 26-30% on a spin mid screen depending on the scenario. DP'ed MK3 Kabal damage B&B would be 35-38% which cuts him down still in the end, but a naked combo is more at 40-43%. A big problem arises however, because a JP starter plus his combo would do 50%-53%. Also, his 3 and 4 hit kick combos do 2 and 3% less in UMK3 than in MK3 in addition to any combos using the hook swords. If it ever gets to the point where we can do this, test that out and see if he's still as dominant. The saw blade could definitely make a combo back, and possibly have the Liu Kang/Sonya counter hit = no block property.

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

If it ever gets to the point where we can do this, test that out and see if he's still as dominant.

With just DP from his spin he would still be dominant IMO. His jabs would still out prioritize everyone and his spin would still be brokenly fast. It would just take a little longer to win than normal.

I think the main overpowering thing about Kabal is how fast the spin is. It's impossible to react to it unless you're full screen or constantly kara-jabbing or glitch jabbing (all defend jabbing). It either needs to have more start-up time, less distance, both or something else regarding the spin itself. Though if the DP after the spin is really big it might work. I just think it would be better to nerf the spin itself.

 

[Shock]

Basically, instead of having frames 6 through 30 be hot collision boxes, it should only be frames 9 through 23. I will try record comparisons later.

 

[SYNIC]

Some good ideas in there REO. Keeping the smoke for R Smoke is interesting but I don't think players would like that very much. Editing Kabal's collision for the spin might be necessary although if you make it too narrow, he will just push them and the spin will never make contact. There are definitely ways to do it. I think reducing the overall time the Spin has collision, for example making the start up 9 frames instead of 6 would change things a bit.

The first 3 frames are the sprite you pressed LK on moving, the next 3 frames are running animation and then it makes contact, but there are 3 more frames of running animation after that before he actually changes into the unique animation for the dash of the spin itself, ie: when the sprite becomes slanted forward and the blur starts to appear. I think if it made contact on the 9th frame it would be more reasonable. It might also be reasonable to give Kabal dizzy but blockable animation if he completely misses the spin.

Getting back to reducing the overall duration of the spin's collision, perhaps make it only be active between the first frame he's in the dash animation until blur is at the max width, and once it starts to disappear it won't get that grazing hit from full screen if you're walking back. Currently the spin has about 23 total frames of collision where it can grab the opponent, it's hard to get the exact count but I'll try later. I think it could be cut down to 15 but taking a few off the beginning and some more off the end.

i really like that whiff animation idea for the spin.

what about strykers baton trip? there needs to be a way to make that useful i hate useless moves.

 

[Shock]

i really like that whiff animation idea for the spin.

what about strykers baton trip? there needs to be a way to make that useful i hate useless moves.

It's bad, but I wouldn't call it useless, as it's good for a last hit of a round sort of concept since it hits low, and also using it after the Baton Throw as a mix from time to time will often get opponents from the max distance and it's hard to punish. The fact that you can punish it with an uppercut even when it hits is bad, but the best thing to do with it is cut its recovery time perhaps more to N64 MKT level. This would allow Stryker to freely combo after it connects, even if the follow up is blockable, Similar to Sonya or Kano comboing after their sweep.

Stryker is at a 10 - 11 frame disadvantage after connecting the Baton Trip, so that means you can freely counter him with an uppercut when he's close enough on contact. The frame where he is pointing the baton at the camera holds for like 32 frames when it misses, and when it connects he holds that frame for I think 16. These should be cut in half and it would make the move a lot better. He'd be at a 2 to 3 frame advantage after the trip, so technically, he would be able to attack with just about anything after it and it would interrupt other attacks, plus it wouldn't leave him vulnerable. If blocked, perhaps it could maintain the 32 frame pause, there are still frames after that pause where he recovers as well but those are included in the frame disadvantage. N64's recovery time after the Baton Trip is so low he can combo after it connects.

You could even give it counter properties like the leg grab, bike kick, etc so they can't block the following hit if it counters a move so long as it connects in time, and if Stryker is close enough, it would act as a starter in a way. the Baton Trip has a small enough collision that I don't think this would cause infinites, but if it did, it would have to be limited to one usage per combo. The only way it would be fair to give him that would be if the Riot Gun was limited as well like previously mentioned in this thread.

Hell I would even give him another version where he moves backward and does it, which would be neat I think. F, B HP or something, it would be interesting anti rush.

 

[SYNIC]

i wana talk about jade 4 a sec, i rly like jades concept & think she has a lot of potential. 3 changes id giv her:

1 her upward boomerang has horrible angle, make it the same angle as the downward angle but flipped obv

2 her pp shud stay active even when shes hit

3 this is not rly a needed change more like a gimmick but itd b cool if u could whiff her return boomerang up close point blank range similar 2 liu kang ff2.

o & itd b great if she could hav a hk/lk added 2 the beginnin of her 7hit branch so itd b somethin like hk,hp,hp,d+lp,lk,hk,lk,b+kh itd b like 8 hits for 28% dmg but the only reason id suggest this is cuz it would fit her chip dmg theme so much.

 

[Shock]

I would also give Jade an air PP move, or maybe an air throw, and more freedom with her Dash kick in combos.

 

[Konqrr]

All jade really needs is this:

1. Popup combo
2. Jade Kick disabled after 3 hits instead of 2.

I do agree with REO about her up boomerang angle, it is pretty shitty and only works at nearly full screen. Perhaps she can have a return boomerang with up and down versions also? BBF+HP or LK both make the boomerang go straight, but when it returns it goes in the desired direction.

I like air PP activation also.

She is really solid right now, with those two additions, she would be much better.

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

Actually, I think jade would be fine if her combos did a little more damage. That and her upwards and downwards boomerang having less recovery.

 

[SYNIC]

thats actually a good idea konqr w/ the return boomerang angles. but the thing is opponents can just always stand block it as soon as she throws it then proceed & be up in her face everytime stoppin the return boomerang situations. i would make the return boomerang initial flight path do 2chip dmg on block & on return do the standard 1chip dmg. would this even be codable?

air pp sounds cool 2 wouldv never thought of that.

 

[Shock]

I have thought about it in the past, but I don't know how I feel about the pop up combo, by MKT so many have them, it would turn into giving them to everyone just to bump up and it seems artificial or contrived. Air Throws are still few and far between and I think it would be interesting for her to have one since none of the female ninjas do.

As for damage, I would make he 7 hit do as much damage as the 4 hit with a sweep, 28% instead of 22%. The CPU I believe gets 34% for her 7 hit, which was probably the original intended damage for it. Angled return Boomers is great.