Mortal Kombat (2011) Matchup Chart

[Robotic]

If shang is supposedly S tier why does he have so many awful matchups?

you know, I kinda wondered the same thing about Shang Tsung. It seems that his match ups are all assuming he is only using his normals and MOST of his specials. But aren't we forgetting about Soul Steal? If that one move is considered in the matchup chart, then how are ANY of Shang Tsung's matchups worse than 5-5?

I'm not a Shang player or versed in him by far nor do I pretend to be, so there must be more logic behind this. Soul Steal turns you into a better version of your opponent for a time, is this considered in the matchup chart?

 

[MKK hanzo]

Where is Freddy DLC slot in the matchup chart?

 

[Gabriel032]

I've been playing a little with Sonya lately, so I have some thoughts on her matchups. (Just based in some online matches with players that usually have my level)

Sonya vs Scorpion: 5:5, or 6:4. Her projectile is good and can easily beat his spear. Besides, she has Dive Kick pressure, and her punishes are way better than his. The only thing in Scorpions favor in this match is his EX Spear.

Sonya vs Sektor: 4:6. He takes the advantage here. Her projectile is better, but he has teleport to punish her if she gets too comfortable zoning. Hes best choice is staying at a close range, but his flamethrower doesnt allow her to do that.

Sonya vs Sheeva: 6:4, or 7:3. Sonya is way faster than Sheeva, has a better projectile and a better armor move. Sheeva's only alternative is spamming with Jump Stomp, but Sonya has Arc Kick to avoid that, or even a simple dash. Then Sheeva is punished by a full combo.

 

[TheChad_87]

I'm not a Shang player or versed in him by far nor do I pretend to be, so there must be more logic behind this. Soul Steal turns you into a better version of your opponent for a time, is this considered in the matchup chart?

Nor am I; but I do play Shang occasionally, and his slow normals make it difficult to land a Soul Steal. It is safe on block, but you still can't abuse it.
That said, my go to Enhanced combo deals 38%, starts low, and ends in Soul Steal. If I land it, It's really hard to come back from.

Against the rushdown characters, I really feel like the only chance he has is to land an Up Skull and combo off the stagger. This is possible, but characters like Cyber Sub-Zero, Raiden, & Jade are nearly impossible to hit zone out. Once someone gets in on him, he's done. EN Soul Steal is his only halfway decent wake-up (although it is VERY good)

 

[PeeJaeys]

I don't agree with this:

Smoke v Baraka 5/5
Smoke v Cyber-Sub 4/5
Smoke v SubZero 4/5

My opinion:

Smoke v Baraka 6/4
Smoke v Cyber-Sub 5/5
Smoke v Sub Zero 5/5

I believe smoke is exteremly underrated.
I've asked Tom Brady what he felt the match up was for smoke v sub, and he said he believes 5/5. At the very least I agree. His reset help sub out a lot. But smoke is very hard to corner, if played correctly. Smoke has the tools to defeat a high level sub-zero.
And I believe sub zero has equally the amount of chance to beat a high level smoke.

1. Smoke has shake, and smoke away to keep AWAY from sub, and I believe beats him terribly at the zoning game as he does not have teleports. Sub has to slide or continously dash to get in. Baiting with ice clones are useless unless smoke decides to get in. Shake counters subs balls at max range. And is punished if he slides to close distance. And even if he does get a slide in and drops smoke it does not lead into combo. Again Ex phase away can get get smoke out of many sticky situations. And allow fustration to set in, in which case can make the best of players comit to horrible mistakes. I truly believe this match up is 5/5

2. Baraka - In all honestly I've never played a high level Baraka, so I would like to know why people feel it's an EVEN match up.

3. Cyber Sub Zero - Smoke can shake his air kicks on reaction, shake his balls, punish his slides( are they slower than regular zeros? I find it easier to jump over and smokebomb or ex phase into smoke bomb for 32% damage. Smoke can also punish his teleports on reaction with with 214. So saying smoke is at at disadvantage is ridicuoulous. Also, smoke can punish CS ice parries ase well for full combo with smoke bomb.

These are my personal opinons based on games I've played against these characters. And I only put my input based on players who know their characters. I wholehardly believe that Smoke has the tools. And I think it's been proven in many tournaments and streams.

I think the previous match up points might have been correct a while ago, but people are now playing smoke differently. I don't believe he's meant to be played rush down, in which case he will lose in most of these altercations if not careful. If you play a smoke that plays into his strengths I think things change drastically.

These are just my two cents, maybe three. Have a good day and thank you for the read.

 

[RWDY Nori]

you know, I kinda wondered the same thing about Shang Tsung. It seems that his match ups are all assuming he is only using his normals and MOST of his specials. But aren't we forgetting about Soul Steal? If that one move is considered in the matchup chart, then how are ANY of Shang Tsung's matchups worse than 5-5?

I'm not a Shang player or versed in him by far nor do I pretend to be, so there must be more logic behind this. Soul Steal turns you into a better version of your opponent for a time, is this considered in the matchup chart?

Soul Steal is a nice idea on paper, but anybody with a brain at high level will get soul stealed and run away. Shang will also not hit Soul Steal often and has a VERY hard time w/at least half the cast. I believed since the game came out until a month ago Shang was top tier but he is honestly nothing higher than mid. Pick anybody with a teleport and you win

 

[truendymion]

So basically Sheeva is a garbage character lol!

 

[Robotic]

3. Cyber Sub Zero - Smoke can shake his air kicks on reaction, shake his balls, punish his slides...

Hilarious. I nominate this for statement of the day

 

[Altsa]

Also about the Smoke matchups, I don´t fully disagree with the chart but I´d like some basis for these:

Smoke vs Kitana 4-6
Smoke vs Cyber sub 4-6
Smoke vs Sub-zero 4-6 (this should be 5-5 imo)
Smoke vs Nightwolf 4-6

And is Smoke vs Cyrax 4-6 done with the "hit him once and do 90%"-mentality or does he rally have advantage over Smoke tool-wise?

 

[TheChad_87]

Well, Cyrax has a good match-up against Smoke for a few reasons, but one that I've noticed is that Cyrax doesn't have to worry so much about being punished with a tele for throwing nets. If Cyrax is close enough when he throws the net, Smoke's teleport will make him hit Cyrax once and then be trapped in the net. This makes him harder to punish. There's more to it than that, but that's always been a huge factor for me. And of course the fact that he only needs to land 2 Nets to call the game.

Why would vs Kitana not be a 4:6? What can Smoke do against her? She has better Rushdown and better zoning in iAF, and as Konqrr will tell you, iAF just a lil high will bait Shake 75+% of the time. On paper, it should be in Smoke's favor as he is very ant-zoning, but what exactly does he do with Kitana when he gets her in close range? She D+4s him to death and then pokes with F+2 for a 40+% juggle.

 

[Altsa]

Not to start a war here but I have yet to play a Kitana who has the courage to throw fans at me. If you actually can bait a shake and manage to combo after that, why wouldn´t smoke punish every iAF with a teleport instead? Why should smoke sit and take d+4s? and f+2 actually hitting without being a punish is almost as (un)likely as my 3d12. Hopefully someone crushes me with Kitana so I can open my eyes, but as of now it feels that only the better player has an advantage.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

As Nori said, the soul steal is effective in theory but not in practice. It only lasts for a few seconds and if your opponent is smart, they will play keep away. Keep in mind that these matchups vary greatly depending on how you play Shang. I lean more towards pure zoning with frame traps thrown in when they get close. others play Shang a bit more aggressively. Obviously Mileena gives people like me more trouble. People like Raiden and and Kung Lao are bad matchups for just about anyone, but still, they aren't hopeless. As for Shang being S-tier, I do believe that he belongs there. He is probably the best zoner in the game next to Stryker. But like any zoner, he encounters trouble against teleporters- especially Raiden and Lao. Shang's main problem is that he has so little room for error. One wrong guess and you are going to eat a combo, whereas someone like Lao can spin his way out of anything. Many of his 4-6 matches are close, and could be closer to 5-5.

 

[TheChad_87]

Not to start a war here but I have yet to play a Kitana who has the courage to throw fans at me. If you actually can bait a shake and manage to combo after that, why wouldn´t smoke punish every iAF with a teleport instead? Why should smoke sit and take d+4s? and f+2 actually hitting without being a punish is almost as (un)likely as my 3d12. Hopefully someone crushes me with Kitana so I can open my eyes, but as of now it feels that only the better player has an advantage.

My mistake. I meant D+1 (I usually play Mileena, so I use D+4 as my poke for her).
When Smoke gets in close range, there's not much he can do about D+1 repeatedly. And once she backs him out of her face, she goes for the F+2 ... If you're consistently punishing Kitana's F+2, which is a safe on block poke, I'd love to know how...

 

[RWDY Nori]

As for Shang being S-tier, I do believe that he belongs there.

Look at all of shangs tools. Specials, normals, xrays, etc. Now, how can he be S tier when he flat out loses to the following chars: Reptile, Ermac, Scorpion, Raiden, Kano, Mileena, Kitana, NW, KL, Cyrax, Sektor, Noob. And that's just the chars from the top of my head. He loses to ALL these chars, they have ways of getting in (if they need to) and staying there.

He does not win any of these matchups and has to work hard for a win, and guess right, a lot. He has good tools, but in certain matchups, he has to work very hard to win. If he has to work that hard, it can't be 5-5, therefore it's at least 4-6, therefore can't be S tier.

Unless I'm missing something here, and trust me, I had faith in Shang for months, but he just doesn't have what it takes to be S tier. S Tier means that char can go win a tournament and nobody will be surprised. People would take a shit if Shang won Evo

 

[Robotic]

S Tier means that char can go win a tournament and nobody will be surprised. People would take a shit if Shang won Evo

good point.

 

[Altsa]

^not sure if you misread that but what I meant was that f+2 will hardly ever hit, it being a fairly slow high hitting normal. (the f+2 being a punish against something unsafe smoke did, lets say a blocked teleport. Not that I would punish kitana for doing the f+2). Also if she wiffs a poke, next she appears at the top of the screen if you know what I mean . I kinda like the risk-reward of mass d+1 against Smoke actually.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Another thing the community needs to stop w/is this "S tier" stuff. I guarantee 90% of people saying S tier don't know what it means nor remember REAL S tier chars. S tier is when a char is super overpowered and you expect him to win every tournament and nobody else. S tier, it's pretty much saying almost nobody can compete w/them at a high level. I'll give examples:

Tekken 4: Jin
Teken 5: Steve
Soul Calibur 1: Cervantes
3S: Chun/Ken/Yun
AE: Twins/Fei Long
SF4 Vanilla: Sagat
SF2 World Warrior: Guile
SF2 Champion Edition: Dictator (anybody 25 and above should remember this horror show)
SSF2T Akuma (considered the most broken char of all time)
Soul Calibur 4: Hilde
MvC2: Sentinel


KL/Cyrax/Raiden/Reptile are all A tier which is top tier, nowhere NEAR broken or godlike

 

[PeeJaeys]

Tell me why can't I shake subs balls? Please let me know WHATS so funny about that! =[

 

[Somberness]

 

[TheChad_87]

Bleh. It's all Syntax. If you don't wanna use S Tier. Call it A Tier and bump everyone down a level .. -_-

 

[PND OmegaK]

Look at all of shangs tools. Specials, normals, xrays, etc. Now, how can he be S tier when he flat out loses to the following chars: Reptile, Ermac, Scorpion, Raiden, Reptile, Kano, Mileena, Kitana, NW, KL, Cyrax, Sektor, Noob. And that's just the chars from the top of my head. He loses to ALL these chars, they have ways of getting in (if they need to) and staying there.

Shit, he loses to reptile twice. :wow:

 

[Abra Kapocus]

Shit, he loses to reptile twice. :wow:

That elbow dash sure does get around.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

(Ignore the angry face, that was meant for the last sentence)

Shang does NOT lose to Ermac. Everything about his zoning capabilities is inferior, not to mention his nonexistent close game. Shang at least has frame traps. I wouldn't say he loses to cyrax either. His teleport can be tracked by the up skull and the trades can work in Shang's favor. As I said, Reptile cannot outzone Shang. That matchup is reliant on the elbow dash and Reptile pressure. Even if he lands the random forceball, the trade will ensure that he cannot get up quick enough to combo. Like the rest of the cast, Shang is 5-5 against Scorpion: if he guesses wrong, he loses. the Noob matchup is definitely annoying, but Shang's unbreakable combos help him big time. Kano also does not win now that the upball is punishable. His knives can make it difficult, but the Kano balls get him killed. At range, Shang has the advantage. Kitana is also annoying, but nobody can be perfect with the IAF's, which means she will be hit by a groundskull. The wave dash can also be dealt with by upskulls, which will knock her out of the air. The only matchups that I would say are stacked in the opponents favor are Kung Lao, Raiden, Mileena (although REO doubts this) and possibly Sektor. Btw, I took S-tier to mean top tier, not necessarily godlike or broken. Shang does have to work hard, but the payoff is usually big. Now if NRS had just let him keep the groundskull tracking.

 

[Gabriel032]

Tsung definately doesnt lose to Kitana. Its 5:5, or even 6:4. While air fans deal little damage, if shes hit by a ground skull it's at least 25% out of punish. Her square boost is slow enough to give room for a up skull, and then she can take 30-40%. I really think he has the advantage against her.

Hes not a top tier (Kung Lao, Raiden, Reptile, Cyrax and Kitana are IMO), but hes mid-high.

 

[The_Riddler]

I realize I'm not a top player, but I have played Cyber Sub-Zero since launch and I wanted to express my opinion on his match-ups. I will point out those numbers that I think should be changed from how they appear in the chart.

Baraka: 6/4
Cyrax: 5/5
Ermac: 5/5
Jade: 6/4
Jax: 6/4
Johnny Cage:5/5
Kabal: 4/6
Kano: 5/5
Kitana: 4/6
Kung Lao: 4/6
Liu Kang: 6/4
Mileena: 6/4
Nightwolf: 5/5
Noob Saibot: 6/4
Quan Chi: 8/2
Raiden: 5/5
Reptile: 5/5
Scorpion: 7/3
Sektor: 5/5
Shang Tsung: 8/2
Sheeva: 7/3
Sindel: 6/4
Smoke: 6/4
Sonya: 6/4
Stryker: 6/4
Sub-Zero: 4/6

If anyone wants to know why I feel the way I do, I'll be happy to share my thoughts.