The Official Kabal Crybaby Thread

[M2Dave]

They wouldnt change anything significant about him though, he would still completely disregard MK9s meta-game by spamming fireballs.

Freddy's zoning is superior to Kabal's in many match ups. The main difference is that Freddy has a large crouching hitbox and cannot escape frame traps with a cancelable armor attack that launches. Likewise, Kenshi's mid range zoning is superior to Kabal's, but Kenshi has a large crouching hitbox just like Freddy. And while EX Spirit Charge is one of the best armor moves in the game, you can do a cross up and full combo punish him if you make a good read.

When you trap Freddy and Kenshi, the player has to make the right guess to escape. Kabal, on the other hand, just does EX dash and escapes almost any precarious situation in the game. EX dash is what breaks the character, not the fireballs.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Freddy's zoning is superior to Kabal's in many match ups. The main difference is that Freddy has a large crouching hitbox and cannot escape frame traps with a cancelable armor attack that launches. Likewise, Kenshi's mid range zoning is superior to Kabal's, but Kenshi has a large crouching hitbox just like Freddy. And while EX Spirit Charge is one of the best armor moves in the game, you can do a cross up and full combo punish him if you make a good read.

When you trap Freddy and Kenshi, the player has to make the right guess to escape. Kabal, on the other hand, just does EX dash and escapes almost any precarious situation in the game. EX dash is what breaks the character, not the fireballs.

I think the difference in our arguement is that you want Kabal to be a zoner, I want him to be rushdown.

But Freddies zoning isnt as annoying to so much of the cast as Kabals. No way. I'd rather have them stupid gloves thrown at me all round and spikes coming up through the floor because at least then you have the option to jump or duck. With Kabal it is just duck.

 

[Treadmill]

I think the difference in our arguement is that you want Kabal to be a zoner, I want him to be rushdown.

But Freddies zoning isnt as annoying to so much of the cast as Kabals. No way. I'd rather have them stupid gloves thrown at me all round and spikes coming up through the floor because at least then you have the option to jump or duck. With Kabal it is just duck.

I second this. Is rather get blown up for me making a mistake than spend half the round dash duck blocking only to get knocked back by a ground saw.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[sub_on_dubs]

wow, 36 pages? All this crying isn't going to change anything. Kabal is what he is and there aren't going to be any more patches for this game. Pick him up or keep getting bodied by him. I'll choose to keep getting bodied.

 

[Slips]

There are a few different tools Kabal has that make him distinctly unique. Nomad cancel being the main one. But IAGB, essentially a suped up version of Kit's IAF, and buzz saw, essentially a suped up version of KL low hat.

The main thing that makes him stupid is IAGB. It allows him to slow the game down at his pace. And lets face it, there is next to nothing you can do about once he gets them going. Especially characters that don' have armor. Its a rape-fest.

The nomad cancels is what makes him cool and unique. Its what separates him from the rest of the cast like Scorpion vortex, Quan Chi rune trap, Cage nutpunch, Sonya MS, ect. But he doesn't need the best instant air fireball and the best low projectile in the game on top of it. Its absolutely ridiculous he has these tools.

 

[Breaker]

smokey, no you can't start a combo with just a plain 2 or 2~NDC.
m2dave, there is risk in using the EX dash. Timing has to be on point or it's blown up...

@everyone who's making legit complains against Kabal....Pick him the fuck up and see how "amazing" it is to play with him. It kills your hand, mind, and requires WAYY to much effort just to get a 39% punish. REO and Detroit are the only two Kabals that I can honostly say YOU people should be concerned about. Oh wait, so MAYBE it's the TOP 5 players in the world that should concern you cause the way I see it, doesn't matter what character they pick up, a week later there is either a bandwagon or a nerf demand. This is just getting plain rediculous.

 

[IKizzLE]

smokey, no you can't start a combo with just a plain 2 or 2~NDC.
m2dave, there is risk in using the EX dash. Timing has to be on point or it's blown up...

@everyone who's making legit complains against Kabal....Pick him the fuck up and see how "amazing" it is to play with him. It kills your hand, mind, and requires WAYY to much effort just to get a 39% punish. REO and Detroit are the only two Kabals that I can honostly say YOU people should be concerned about. Oh wait, so MAYBE it's the TOP 5 players in the world that should concern you cause the way I see it, doesn't matter what character they pick up, a week later there is either a bandwagon or a nerf demand. This is just getting plain rediculous.

Ive played reo and detroit and kevo, and Kevo blew me up the worst.
More and more kabal players are coming out and they are only getting better. If you think in the next few months that only 2 people will be the only people who know how to abuse him, your going to be in for a rude awakening. And it is a combination of kabal and the player. I've played the aforementioned people's alts and detroits main, and do just fine.

The kabal era has begun.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

The nomad cancels is what makes him cool and unique. Its what separates him from the rest of the cast like Scorpion vortex, Quan Chi rune trap, Cage nutpunch, Sonya MS, ect. But he doesn't need the best instant air fireball and the best low projectile in the game on top of it. Its absolutely ridiculous he has these tools.

Exactly. He has the best tool at all heights and distances. If that's not stupid, I don't know what is.

And as far as the "We didn't have patches and hotfixes back then, we just dealt with it, so you should shut up and deal with it too" debate goes, I don't see how that's a positive point. Is that to say that even though game makers now HAVE the tools to balance and adjust stupidity like this, and work out the kinks so it CAN appeal to more people, they should purposely leave it alone to please the few people willing to put up with it without being completely turned off or turned away? Or is the goal to eventually widdle down that willing population to an even smaller competitive player base than we already have?

As I've said before, I understand the crispy bandwagon philosophy, I'm not arguing with people who think it'll help them to victory, but as long as he stays as overwhelmingly good as he is I don't see how this can lead anywhere positive for the future of the scene. It's one thing when everyone gets hyped as hell to watch someone like you or Pig try and beat a Kabal, but it's gonna be a different story entirely when there's more of them at shows and on streams than can be counted.

@everyone who's making legit complains against Kabal....Pick him the fuck up and see how "amazing" it is to play with him. It kills your hand, mind, and requires WAYY to much effort just to get a 39% punish. REO and Detroit are the only two Kabals that I can honostly say YOU people should be concerned about. Oh wait, so MAYBE it's the TOP 5 players in the world that should concern you cause the way I see it, doesn't matter what character they pick up, a week later there is either a bandwagon or a nerf demand. This is just getting plain rediculous.

Valid point. But the difference in this case is, while every wagon before was more or less based on unfamiliarity, fear and surprise, and would quickly die down once said wagon character was beaten...in the case of Kabal, he's ALWAYS been this good, better than the rest, and people have been aware of how strong he can be, it's just until this point, not many people have seen a just reason to switch sides. Now you have damn near all of VSM, Morty, Pig, and who knows who else following suit and getting ready to get burnt.

 

[Death]

iAGB needs to be toned down ALOT. Kabal IS a rushdown character and needs to be treated as such. Kabals buzzsaw and overhead hooks should have no pushback on block and should be like -15. Kabal shouldnt wake up with Nomad dash/EX Nomad dash as well.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Why does everyone keep saying "Are we gonna see Kenshis dominate tournaments?"
Kenshi's not dominating shit. If Kenshi was suppose to be a dominating character there would be more than just Pig of the Hut using him well in tournies. If Kabal was banned from tourney play, I bet any money Pig would still be one of the only good Kenshis out there, there would not Kenshis running wild owning the offline scene. It's getting annoying how everyone thinks this character is alot better than what he really is.

He is NOT the 2nd best character in the game at all in my opinion. Maybe top 5, but I would even say maybe 7 or 8

This... fucking OMGWTFBBQ this.
Kenshi relies HEAVILY on spacing.... something Kabal doesn't. Kabal breaks the footsie rule with how he is designed.
No... i'm not saying certain players don't have good footsie... i'm saying that you can learn how to play Kabal without ever really having to learn certain spacing... since he controls the entire stage.
King is spot on here.

Can we put to rest the "he is execution heavy so he needs it" bullshit? Maybe it would matter if he actually was hitting like 4 buttons all at the same time while inputting double quarter circle forward motions... but seriously.. up back back ... bf 2... not hard button motions.

 

[SZSR]

For God's sake, I love you guys and all, but this is getting ridiculous. I've seen this exact level of hype given to other characters who make the top-tier discussions and now is no different. Can we drop this trend for once?

I myself have tried Kabal for a bit and he just didn't interest me. To assume that all players will just jump on the Kabal bandwagon to win is kind of silly. It's like you're implying that the other characters can't compete, which isn't true.

Obviously Kabal is a very deadly character to go against, but this is why you will just have to hit the lab and learn what your characters can do against him. It's not hopeless. Though, I can already see that my words will just fall on deaf ears, so it hardly matters if people think I'm ignorant.

Sooner this thread gets closed, the better. It's stuff like this that will only hurt us as players.

QFT. I don't see why your words should fall on deaf ears, you're one of the more respected members of the community. You have the best working knowledge of the game even for a lack of an offline scene nearby (though you do go to offline meetups when you can). I.e., people should listen to GamerBlake, he knows his shit.

 

[UsedForGlue]

iAGB needs to be toned down ALOT. Kabal IS a rushdown character and needs to be treated as such. Kabals buzzsaw and overhead hooks should have no pushback on block and should be like -15. Kabal shouldnt wake up with Nomad dash/EX Nomad dash as well.

Theoretically, the overhead should be unsafe.

At least if Kabal players did the sawblade on block, it wouldn't matter anyway.

 

[RagingNight]

I like how people try to validate their opinions by comparing this to Bob vs Bob Tekken 6 and saying how Bob vs Bob killed Tekken 6 for evo.

Nope it wasn't because of
1) tekken 6 being on its hindlegs with TTT2 being released
2) the tekken community that showed up for EVO was considerably smaller than the rest

It was all bob was so broken/the best (no he wasn't) that GF tekken 6 at evo 2011 is was killed tekken 6 from being in evo2012.

Now can we stop using that comparison before anybody else sounds more retarded? Thank you

Also 3s had this one character named Chun-Li, where she dominated the whole entire cast. Guess what? 3s lasted about 10 years at evo. I'm sure kabal isn't even close to 3s chun-li status in MK9 so if mk9 "dies" because of kabal it says more about the MK9 scene being a bitch than anything else.

 

[CD jr]

For those of you who say kabal is not broken or that he doesnt need nerf yall need to shut the fuck up and take it personal,yall have no right to say shit like that unless you have played reo detroit or kevo no fucking right at all why? because by saying shit like that you are creating this fantasy world where kabal is fine the way he is and then you gonna have more stupid people like you believing you and then the character will never get nerfed. m2dave dude you only say the armor dash is the problem because you have a character that can deal with kabals fireball and thats selfish as fuck dude just like how you complain about smoke because smoke stops all kinds of zoing freddy can do.stop thinking only about what benefits your character dude i like you and all and respect you but that shit is pissing a lot of people off.and you know whats sad about all this i know for a FACT that IF a nerf does come kabal still gonna be the best in the game just because the way he was made.maxter and i have been messing around with lao also and im starting to believe that he might still a top 5 character even after the nerfs but i need to keep doing more research.fuck you kabal and fuck all who think the character is ''fine'' the way he is yall make me sick.

 

[SZSR]

I like how people try to validate their opinions by comparing this to Bob vs Bob Tekken 6 and saying how Bob vs Bob killed Tekken 6 for evo.

Nope it wasn't because of
1) tekken 6 being on its hindlegs with TTT2 being released
2) the tekken community that showed up for EVO was considerably smaller than the rest

It was all bob was so broken/the best (no he wasn't) that GF tekken 6 at evo 2011 is was killed tekken 6 from being in evo2012.

Now can we stop using that comparison before anybody else sounds more retarded? Thank you

Also 3s had this one character named Chun-Li, where she dominated the whole entire cast. Guess what? 3s lasted about 10 years at evo. I'm sure kabal isn't even close to 3s chun-li status in MK9 so if mk9 "dies" because of kabal it says more about the MK9 scene being a bitch than anything else.

Relevant

CD jr, Hey man When I said on the stream that Kabal doesn't have a teleport, I was just being a smart-ass about it. I don't think Kabal needs it, MK9 Kabal sure as hell doesn't. But I wanna ask, what would make him more balanced if you could take something from him?

 

[IKizzLE]

QFT. I don't see why your words should fall on deaf ears, you're one of the more respected members of the community. You have the best working knowledge of the game even for a lack of an offline scene nearby (though you do go to offline meetups when you can). I.e., people should listen to GamerBlake, he knows his shit.

Their within lies the problem with this community. Blake is a really good sonya player, but he has not traveled to tournies and experienced offline kabal on the level of the three players we have been talking about.

People shouldn't be formulating opinions on things they have yet experienced and when other top players who travel say he is a problem, his opinion holds even less weight.

This whole thread is split into two groups. People who have been to majors and have played the best(CDjr, Me, Death, Slips,Pig) and people who have only watched the stream, played their friends or only play online.

For some reason, the latter think kabal is fine. I wonder why.

 

[CD jr]

Relevant

CD jr, Hey man When I said on the stream that Kabal doesn't have a teleport, I was just being a smart-ass about it. I don't think Kabal needs it, MK9 Kabal sure as hell doesn't. But I wanna ask, what would make him more balanced if you could take something from him?

more recovery on iagb and make the overhead or the saw punishable on block after he does a string into them one of the two.the motherfucker has a safe 50/50 for gods sake

 

[Son ov Timett]

Thank God I live in SoCal where Cyrax, Jax, and Liu Kang run shit. Haha

But seriously, KuhBawl's IaGB is stupid. How the hell does he breathe without a respirator? That unto itself should tell everyone how OP he is. Dude doesn't even need lungs.

 

[Death]

Hell yeah KL is top 5 Jr. Hes so mobile. He seems like he has good answers for Kabal. 7f 2 which can lead to over 40% is real tight as well. Best x-ray in the game. Hes beast.

 

[RagingNight]

Relevant

How is that relevant? Justin was clearly winning. The reason why he lost was because he chose the dumbest decision to make at the time. It was so obvious that Daigo was baiting the parry, look at ken's movement. Matter of fact, the only way daigo could of won was because justin was stupid enough to even try to do that.

Also you're looking at EVO. Daigo is like "ok" compared to the other japanese players for 3s there are plently of better 3s players (nuki, ko, kuroda, mov, kokujin, etc etc). If you ever watch high level 3s its nothing but chun/yun.

 

[SZSR]

How is that relevant? Justin was clearly winning. The reason why he lost was because he chose the dumbest decision to make at the time. It was so obvious that Daigo was baiting the parry, look at ken's movement. Matter of fact, the only way daigo could of won was because justin was stupid enough to even try to do that.

Also you're looking at EVO. Daigo is like "ok" compared to the other japanese players for 3s there are plently of better 3s players (nuki, ko, kuroda, mov, kokujin, etc etc). If you ever watch high level 3s its nothing but chun/yun.

Literally the only connection I made to your post was 3S, I haven't even touched that game in my life RagingNight.

Their within lies the problem. Blake is a really good sonya player, but he has not traveled to tournies and experienced offline kabal on the level of the three players we have been talking about.

People shouldn't be formulating opinions on things they have yet experienced and when other top players who travel say he is a problem, his opinion holds even less weight.

This whole thread is split into two groups. People who have been to majors and have played the best(CDjr, Me, Death, Slips) and people who have only watched the stream, played their friends or only play online.

For some reason, the latter think kabal is fine. I wonder why.

I'm not saying working knowledge outweighs the importance of offline play. But his past experience with this game holds him high above a lot of other players. I'm not Blake so I can't tell you if he met REO, Detroit or Kevo.

The only knowledge I have of them Kaballs if watching them on stream. I've been to enough meetups to know that playing offline and watching it are two different monsters.

I just don't believe in giving up, if you can fight you should fight. Obviously the people like yourself, CD jr, Death, and even REO has gone on record as saying that Kabal is broken. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to figure out our own way to try to make the matchup more winnable. And until NRS does something about Kabal's bullshit that's pretty much what we can do (or pick up Kabal ourselves).

 

[IKizzLE]

Literally the only connection I made to your post was 3S, I haven't even touched that game in my life RagingNight.




I'm not saying working knowledge outweighs the importance of offline play. But his past experience with this game holds him high above a lot of other players. I'm not Blake so I can't tell you if he met REO, Detroit or Kevo.

The only knowledge I have of them Kaballs if watching them on stream. I've been to enough meetups to know that playing offline and watching it are two different monsters.

I just don't believe in giving up, if you can fight you should fight. Obviously the people like yourself, CD jr, Death, and even REO has gone on record as saying that Kabal is broken. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to figure out our own way to try to make the matchup more winnable. And until NRS does something about Kabal's bullshit that's pretty much what we can do (or pick up Kabal ourselves).

We all know how to make the matchup more winnable and thats by picking up kabal. And their lies within another problem.
No one wants to see top 8 at MLG and evo being dominated by kabal. Our solution will inevitably kill the game. But w/e....I'm indifferent at this point. Shit aint gonna change. Time to accept and move on. SEKTOR FOR LIFE!!!!!!

 

[Skkra]

A single character having the best iaFB, low projectile, and an armored, cancelable EX dash is too much. Yes, he is beatable, but the fact that Kabal has won the last several tournaments says a lot to me. I'll certainly stop watching MK streams if the top 8 has 5 Kabals in it every time. The character variety is what makes MK9 so fun to watch.

As some other people have said, Kabal kind of "breaks the rules of the game" by dominating space at every range. There is another famous example where this happened that you might have heard of, called MVC2. Each of the characters who broke the rules of the game ended up being a top tier, and eventually the game ended up being a contest solely between that small handful of god characters.

The problem in this case is that there is only ONE god tier character.

 

[RagingNight]

As some other people have said, Kabal kind of "breaks the rules of the game" by dominating space at every range. There is another famous example where this happened that you might have heard of, called MVC2. Each of the characters who broke the rules of the game ended up being a top tier, and eventually the game ended up being a contest solely between that small handful of god characters.

Actually wrong about "each of the char...ended up being top tier". What happen to Spiral, blackheart, cable and etc? You know what happen? The community figured them out and beat them. Spiral/blackheart were incredibly stupid when they were first found and over the months/years the community found ways around them.

 

[SZSR]

We all know how to make the matchup more winnable and thats by picking up kabal. And their lies within another problem.
No one wants to see top 8 at MLG and evo being dominated by kabal. Our solution will inevitably kill the game. But w/e....I'm indifferent at this point. Shit aint gonna change. Time to accept and move on. SEKTOR FOR LIFE!!!!!!

I guess this is where Playing to win and playing with your favorites butt heads.

If you're not trying to use the most broken-ass character in the game you're not playing to win since you're imposing restrictions on yourself. Fine.

If that's the way it's gonna be then i'll accept it and move on. I guess i'll start playing someone like Freddy, Kung Lao, or whoever else is an even matchup for Kabal (including freaking Kabal).

Because clearly with playing who I want to isn't gonna be getting me anywhere.