Strategy frog hopping

[Metzos]

my only problem with b2 dashing so close and going for grabs etc is that once or twice people see what you are doing and wont fall for it . you cant block during this and fast specials beat this. thats not to say you cant b2 and tks instead of a grab.

Thats why you mix it up afterwards. You dont do the same and the same all over again. B2 charge cancel dash to throw. After that B2 charge cancel dash to 31, 12, F4 or down poke. Yeah you cannot block but you can down poke. Most fast specials will whiff and you get a down poke, or even an uppercut or throw at worst.

 

[zaf]

Thats why you mix it up afterwards. You dont do the sa and the same all over again. B2 charge cancel dash to throw. After that B2 charge cancel dash to 31, 12, F4 or down poke. Yeah you cannot block but you can down poke. Most fast specials will whiff and you get a down poke, or even an uppercut or throw at worst.

nono i understand to mix it up.
b2 charge dash throw
then, b2 charge dash 31 121 etc

im saying that the second time around, when you are going for a b2 charge dash 31, the opponent is going to react when they see b2 and do something. i dont see how b2 cancel dash 31 would beat a mileeena telekick

 

[SunnyD]

SunnyD pls.
He makes a video showcasing it to the community. He gets to name it.

Ok then i get to make a video off of Kratos's 21 HDC infinite and call it the Sunny Infinite.

If only i could do the infinite. lol

 

[Metzos]

nono i understand to mix it up.
b2 charge dash throw
then, b2 charge dash 31 121 etc

im saying that the second time around, when you are going for a b2 charge dash 31, the opponent is going to react when they see b2 and do something. i dont see how b2 cancel dash 31 would beat a mileeena telekick

B2 charge cancell to TKP or TKS. Dont forget you can cause Mileena's tele kick to whiff if you dash at the same time she does the tele kick. I believe pig of the hut created a video regarding this. Need to find it.

 

[gdf]

Ok then i get to make a video off of Kratos's 21 HDC infinite and call it the Sunny Infinite.

If only i could do the infinite. lol

Yes.

 

[Metzos]

nono i understand to mix it up.
b2 charge dash throw
then, b2 charge dash 31 121 etc

im saying that the second time around, when you are going for a b2 charge dash 31, the opponent is going to react when they see b2 and do something. i dont see how b2 cancel dash 31 would beat a mileeena telekick

http://testyourmight.com/threads/universal-punishier-for-mileena-tele-kicks.15652/page-2

Found it. Yes its kinda risky but it can be done. I dont think Ermac can lift the whiffed tele kick but he should be able to do a d4 or d3 at least, or even attempt a throw. Either way its very situational.

 

[H2O FARMER]

This also works for Cage and Sub

 

[SunnyD]

I'd like to add in that I only use it after a blocked B114. Gets you out of close range and into tkp range much faster than anything else, and the advantage allows you to be a little more safe than using it in the neutral game.

 

[KH_Captain]

if you need to block quickly just cancel into switchstance block the same as stryker does from his gun. (see vulcan hades stryker tech videos) this is good for baiting punishable moves.

 

[zaf]

I'd like to add in that I only use it after a blocked B114. Gets you out of close range and into tkp range much faster than anything else, and the advantage allows you to be a little more safe than using it in the neutral game.

what advantage are you speaking of. after b114 ermac is at -4

 

[KH_Captain]

maybe he meant f114

 

[SunnyD]

what advantage are you speaking of. after b114 ermac is at -4

sorry f114

 

[QjonPL]

It's a great way to let the opponent blow you up with armored move/projectile. Let's face it - Ermac can fool around with this for a while, but if the opp is smart, he'd start to at least throw a projectile on reaction (which wouldn't be so hard) - so it's somewhat funny that we see Noob in the video.
I don't even have to say what would Jax/JC/Kabal/Raiden/Nightwolf/Baraka/Cyrax etc. do seeing this.

If you want to move backwards just walk - it's also faster than backdashblocking, covers nice distance and is safe, b2 cancels as a movement method is only for showing off IMO.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

can we get some actual discussion happening here please.

has anyone already been using this?

where do people see uses for this?

can this really be used as an escape against , lets say cage to get full screen?

even tho you can not block, is this good for baiting specials?

I seen UFG do it with SZ's B2, and sometimes I do it with Cages b2 but nothing that incredibly useful for movement

 

[zaf]

considering cage could do some f3 stuff out of it, is it really not that worth it?
ermacs b2, i will admit, has a further dash range then regular dash and when practiced can be done really fast
so considering ermacs is like that, is maybe cages as well? if so do you see that not being incredibly useful?

 

[Metzos]

considering cage could do some f3 stuff out of it, is it really not that worth it?
ermacs b2, i will admit, has a further dash range then regular dash and when practiced can be done really fast
so considering ermacs is like that, is maybe cages as well? if so do you see that not being incredibly useful?

No i wouldnt say that. Ermac's b2 has the fastest cancel of all probably. SZ's and JC's arent that fast.

 

[QjonPL]

Ermac's b2 can be cancelled after (or in?) its 6th frame, Sub's after 19th, not sure if I'm reading JC's fdata correctly (Duration 54-97 frames, so cancellable in 54th?), anyways b2 cancel is also significantly slower; that's the main reason why you cannot froghop so smoothly with their unblockables

EDIT: Metzos typing faster ; D

 

[KRYS9984]

Sub-Zero and Johnny Cage will usually charge B2 when their opponent is in a vulnerable position.

Sub-Zero will freeze an opponent, charge B2, Cage will nutpunch an opponent, charge B2 and both usually cancel into pressure.

Ermacs does not have a special that leaves an opponent grounded and incapacitated for X amount of time, so it is a little more tricky to use it in a pressure game. Imho, it is best used at a distance where B2's forward cancel brings you within grab range / where 3 - 1 - 2 or f4 hit.

As Metzos mentioned, the set-up is very situational and if incorporating B2 into your game, you really have to keep the opponent guessing on the follow-up. If you stick to the same routine, an opponent will read it and counter you every time.

 

[STORMS]

Lol i thought this was another thread on K-Frog's jumping habits

I still think that the risk/reward for this is too high. Complete vulnerability just for a moderate increase in speed? At most i would use one b2 cancel dash to get some extra range, any farther than that is bold stupidity. Also, why not just dash block? I mean, at least you're protecting yourself for fractions of a second between dashes. Here you'er all the way vulnerable cause you cant block fast enough to react to anything.

PS. love how he takes something we've all known for quite some time and names it after himself.

I've always liked Ermac's B2 and I believe it you mastered his cancelling on it and the timing for it... for example.. cancel it in to push... it's basically like Stryker's gun cancels.

Good shit, to k-frog on the video. I'm disappointed we didn't see him do this at all at Toryuken though.

 

[Skkra]

That video is cute, but its nothing we didn't know already, and I don't see it being that useful. Why do that insane canceling backdash - where you can't block! - when you could walk backwards to cover more ground? The only time I use this technique is to do a single double backdash when trying to create some space in certain situations.

The second someone sees you doing that, they're just going to throw a projectile, or hit you with something really fast like a red kick or some shit.

I'll eat my words when I see someone b2'ing through an entire set and making it look broken. I don't see that happening, but when someone posts a video of it, I'll say "I was wrong!" and eat a bug.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

This isnt new, if you all are wondering.

Ive seen this tech circulating for a few months now.

Kfrog is just popularizing it.

 

[Metzos]

That video is cute, but its nothing we didn't know already, and I don't see it being that useful. Why do that insane canceling backdash - where you can't block! - when you could walk backwards to cover more ground? The only time I use this technique is to do a single double backdash when trying to create some space in certain situations.

The second someone sees you doing that, they're just going to throw a projectile, or hit you with something really fast like a red kick or some shit.

I'll eat my words when I see someone b2'ing through an entire set and making it look broken. I don't see that happening, but when someone posts a video of it, I'll say "I was wrong!" and eat a bug.

You can use moves during the dash cancel though Skkra. So if, for example, JC or Jax do a SK or a DP respectively they are gonna get blown up. How ? Simple. D3 to lower your hitbox and then either full combo punish, cause both of those specials gonna whiff, or uppercut at worst.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

I feel like he could get caught in this and so fucked up. Perhaps this is just because I play sektor, Lao, and rain. How quick can you block?

 

[Skkra]

You can use moves during the dash cancel though Skkra. So if, for example, JC or Jax do a SK or a DP respectively they are gonna get blown up. How ? Simple. D3 to lower your hitbox and then either full combo punish, cause both of those specials gonna whiff, or uppercut at worst.

Oh, I agree with you, it's certainly an option. But I just wouldn't want to have to rely on it. There are plenty of other ways for you to get beat. Why not instead just walk or do standard dash blocking, which allows you to block instantly? Thats my line of thought.

Honestly, you're the best Ermac in the world, and as far as I know, you're not using this. That says to me that this is more of a gimmick than something that is going to evolve into the basis of Ermac play.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I feel like he could get caught in this and so fucked up. Perhaps this is just because I play sektor, Lao, and rain. How quick can you block?

you will.... its just a gimmick. He is like the super gimmick. Everything he does is the same... if he hits .... its awesome... if i'm smart and read it... he dies. This is one of those things.