The portrayal of LGBTQ characters

[eks]

It's clear that I'm not going to change either of your minds on the issue, so I may as well stop trying. I've done what I can. But at least promise me this - if you do hypothetically have a girlfriend and you find out she's transgender, and you're unable to cope with that, then ending the relationship then and there is probably the best response, rather than physical violence.

As long as you don't actively perpetrate discrimination against transgenders, then I suppose that's the best I could reasonably ask for.

You're still missing the point. This isn't just about them being a transsexual. It's about honesty and trust. If you want someone to care about you, they have to trust you, and if you're willing to deceive me about something as fundamental as your gender, what else are you gonna lie to me about? How am I supposed to trust someone who, from the moment I laid eyes on them, was lying to me?

Wanting to beat your ass for lying to me isn't a phobia, either. I also think that most people will react a LOT less harshly if you respect the fact that they think you're a woman (or man) and tell them before they find out that they've kissed a dude. That's pretty fucking simple.

 

[rev0lver]

. You made it seem like we straight people don't have a choice in the matter and we are "wrong" for feeling a certain way, and that in and of itself is enough to push people away from trusting your judgement or listening to your input.

Dude you have the right to feel however you want to, just don't fuck up someone's life by degrading them and putting them in a hospital because something about them sickens you. Trans people have it bad enough as it is.

 

[GuamoKun]

But it's THEIR FAULT for lying in the 1st place. WTf is wrong you people and your twisted little train of thoughts? It wouldn't change REGARDLESS of the sex/gender/race/color/creed. You lie to me, I just wanna kick your ass for it. It's THAT SIMPLE. What? You think trannys should be EXEMPT from the rule?


You made it seem like we straight people don't have a choice in the matter and we are "wrong" for feeling a certain way, and that in and of itself is enough to push people away from trusting your judgement or listening to your input.

1. Don't use "you people" when reffering to a group. It always ends bad. Try saying that to someone of a different country, skin color, or even fighting game community.

2. Not everyone has the same train of thought because of the way they were born. Look at you and I. We are both straight men. I only resort to violence if it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to protect me or the people I care about. Kicking someone's ass because they betrayed you is immature.

You are kinda right that certain groups can't be exempt from things...however, violence is not the answer. Don't give me that whole "instincts" thing either. Humans are animals but we are special in the fact that are capable of self-transcendence or introspection. This is why we look down on violence, rape, and anger. They provide only short-term satisfaction and might even lead to long-term emotional, mental, and even physical damage.

Consider yourself lucky that the MK community is full of classy and chill people here and they won't turn this thread into a mess full of "MAN FUK U U STUPID BTCH FGT" messages.

Oh and btw, this thread existing changed the ads on TYM to a lesbian dating site. Haha.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

lol. Seriously, this shit is ridiculous. If you guys cannot legitimately tell that a transsexual female USED to be a man then you need your eyesight fixed...why're they supposed to be out in the open if you're too inexperienced to spot the difference? Adam's apple, broad shoulders, etc. There's A LOT of visual ques.

The surgically made vagina is another huge indicator. Plastic surgery hasn't gotten that good. While yes, he is now technically a woman, there are visual indicators. It's just an extremely irrational fear. If you guys are that overly considered about accidentally having a former male blow you that it consumes every waking minute of your life than you really need to re-prioritize your life.

 

[rev0lver]

You're still missing the point. This isn't just about them being a transsexual. It's about honesty and trust. If you want someone to care about you, they have to trust you, and if you're willing to deceive me about something as fundamental as your gender, what else are you gonna lie to me about? How am I supposed to trust someone who, from the moment I laid eyes on them, was lying to me?

Wanting to beat your ass for lying to me isn't a phobia, either. I also think that most people will react a LOT less harshly if you respect the fact that they think you're a woman (or man) and tell them before they find out that they've kissed a dude. That's pretty fucking simple.

Where is everyone getting this idea of "lying" from? What lie is going on? If a man goes through a sex change, he is a woman. She would not have to qualify that when meeting people, because it's who she is. There's no deception going on unless you ask them about it.

 

[Zyns]

If you end up kissing a transsexual before they tell you, then obviously you were attracted to said transsexual.
Now, I can understand how them revealing their gender is a turn off, but I don't see how it automatically makes them unattractive to you. You found them attractive enough to want to get into bed with them, their gender doesn't change that fact. As for the whole violence thing, is it really worth hitting someone just because you were attracted to a dude without knowing it? If anything it should lead to some self-discovery.

 

[eks]

When a man goes through a sex change, he is legally a woman. Why would they say "hey, i used to be a man" every time they meet someone? The only lie would be if you asked them if they are trans, and they said no.

Not all "transsexuals" are post-op, and I'd guess that most are pre-op, so not all transsexuals are legally women. The "lie" occurs when they go against the social norms and masquerade as someone of the opposite gender and then seek out straight people and act like that's a "normal" relationship. Dishonestly isn't based solely on the things you tell people with your mouth.

As a straight guy, I want a real woman, not a guy with tits and not a guy with mutilated genitalia. Sorry, but when I think of a post-op transsexual, that's how I, as a straight guy, see them. If other people don't see it that way, that's awesome, but I think most straight men think of "ex-men" like this.

Nobody's suggesting that transsexuals go around introducing themselves as "Ivana the former dude", but to suggest that there shouldn't be SOME SORT of boundary is just absurd. Again, if being a transsexual is such a simple thing, why is telling your partners such a big deal?

 

[GNG Iniquity]

If anything it should lead to some self-discovery.

Don't try to argue rationality with irrational people, it doesn't work.

 

[Zyns]

Don't try to argue rationality with irrational people, it doesn't work.

Oh believe me, I know. That thought just came to my head so I felt like posting it .

 

[GNG Iniquity]

The proverbial man box sure is restrictive isn't it? Well, it's 2012, that box doesn't really exist anymore. Women work, men can stay home with children, etc. More men need to accept this and start raising their sons as such, it just passes down stupidity otherwise. Human beings have emotions, period, being restricted to those emotions due to your gender is just retarded.

If we're going to go by the variation between the two sexes, women are smarter and men are more muscular; so in reality we're the ones who're at a disadvantage.

 

[rev0lver]

Not all "transsexuals" are post-op, and I'd guess that most are pre-op, so not all transsexuals are legally women. The "lie" occurs when they go against the social norms and masquerade as someone of the opposite gender and then seek out straight people and act like that's a "normal" relationship. Dishonestly isn't based solely on the things you tell people with your mouth.

As a straight guy, I want a real woman, not a guy with tits and not a guy with mutilated genitalia. Sorry, but when I think of a post-op transsexual, that's how I, as a straight guy, see them. If other people don't see it that way, that's awesome, but I think most straight men think of "ex-men" like this.

Nobody's suggesting that transsexuals go around introducing themselves as "Ivana the former dude", but to suggest that there shouldn't be SOME SORT of boundary is just absurd. Again, if being a transsexual is such a simple thing, why is telling your partners such a big deal?

When they identify as a woman, that's who they are. They live life that way, and it would be unnatural for them to tell everyone they meet that they are men. There's no honesty or dishonesty there. As Zyns said, if you are pre-op and a guy hits on you, that means they are attracted to you, and there's no obligation to try and turn them away.

But the main problem isn't that, it's that someone would go as far as to beat someone they found out was trans.

 

[eks]

If you end up kissing a transsexual before they tell you, then obviously you were attracted to said transsexual.
Now, I can understand how them revealing their gender is a turn off, but I don't see how it automatically makes them unattractive to you. You found them attractive enough to want to get into bed with them, their gender doesn't change that fact. As for the whole violence thing, is it really worth hitting someone just because you were attracted to a dude without knowing it? If anything it should lead to some self-discovery.

YES, their gender DOES change that fact. I want a woman with a vagina. The fact that they have long hair and wear clothes that make them look like they have a pussy instead of a dick doesn't change the fact that they have a dick. Period.

 

[Zyns]

YES, their gender DOES change that fact. I want a woman with a vagina. The fact that they have long hair and wear clothes that make them look like they have a pussy instead of a dick doesn't change the fact that they have a dick. Period.

The fact that they have a dick doesn't change the fact that you were attracted to them.

 

[eks]

When they identify as a woman, that's who they are. They live life that way, and it would be unnatural for them to tell everyone they meet that they are men. There's no honesty or dishonesty there. As Zyns said, if you are pre-op and a guy hits on you, that means they are attracted to you, and there's no obligation to try and turn them away.

But the main problem isn't that, it's that someone would go as far as to beat someone they found out was trans.

As a gay man, when you're in bed with someone, are you worried about what gender they identify with or are you wanting to have sex with someone with a penis?

And again, nobody's suggesting that it's OK to beat up transsexuals on sight, but beating them to a pulp because they don't respect the fact that I want to fuck a female and they deceived me into thinking they were one when they're not is a lot different than just lynching transsexuals whenever I come across one.

The fact that they have a dick doesn't change the fact that you were attracted to them.

It doesn't change the fact that they look like an attractive female WITH CLOTHES ON, but I want a female who's attractive with her CLOTHES OFF, and the moment I see "her" penis, "she" will stop being an attractive female. Since people don't typically fuck with their clothes on, it's pretty improbable that I wouldn't figure out that they have a dick. I don't want to fuck someone with a penis, period.

 

[REO]

It doesn't change the fact that they look like an attractive female WITH CLOTHES ON, but I want a female who's attractive with her CLOTHES OFF, and the moment I see "her" penis, "she" will stop being an attractive female. I don't want to fuck someone with a penis, period.

Then stop dating. If you're going to come into terms with dating random people out in the world, accept the fact that you may come across a serial killer / transgender / compulsive liar / emotionally disturbed / lunatic / etc. person. It is what it is. You just accept the fact and move on. No need to beat on someone, which may lead to possibly getting shot / stabbed for trying to do some physical harming out of rage.

 

[Zyns]

It doesn't change the fact that they look like an attractive female WITH CLOTHES ON, but I want a female who's attractive with her CLOTHES OFF, and the moment I see "her" penis, "she" will stop being an attractive female. I don't want to fuck someone with a penis, period.

Fair enough, but you seem to be placing all of the blame on them. You were attracted to them. Period. You can't possibly place all of the blame on them just because their gender isn't what you thought it was. The fact that you're willing to get violent over it is completely messed up. YOU wanted to have sex with them, just because they weren't what you thought they were doesn't mean you have any right to be violent towards them.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Sex is fun with both men and women.
A man can't do what a woman can, and a woman can't do what a man can.


Y'all don't know what you're missing.

Lawl

 

[eks]

Fair enough, but you seem to be placing all of the blame on them. You were attracted to them. Period. You can't possibly place all of the blame on them just because their gender isn't what you thought it was. The fact that you're willing to get violent over it is completely messed up. YOU wanted to have sex with them, just because they weren't what you thought they were doesn't mean you have any right to be violent towards them.

Again, I'm not trying to justify violence because I was attracted to them. I do think it's fair to be violently pissed if they don't reveal the truth in a reasonable manner. It's the deception that I have a problem with.

They're the ones who've gone out of their way to look like someone who has a vagina (or penis) when they don't, so YES, it IS all their fault. If we didn't wear clothes that are designed to accentuate our masculine/feminine appearances*, have hormone therapy or have operations that make people look like they're of the opposite gender, then you would be right. Since we do have all of these things, you're wrong.

*Which, in the case of transsexuals allows them to have a male/female shape even though they're a female/male.

What... do you guys expect straight people to go around asking potential lovers if they have penis before they start kissing them? Seriously? Straight people aren't the ones living the lie, so why should we be the ones who have to uncover the truth?

 

[Zoidberg747]

Very interesting post and debate so far, proceeding it. Its odd seeing people talk about this in a mature manner. +1 to humanity.

You obviously havent gotten to AREZ posts yetXD

 

[Espio]

True, but they wouldn't realise that someone was transphobic straight away. Not many people are stupid enough to go around saying "I hate trannies!" or some other slur.

Correct, but before I came out as gay, I tinkered around asking questions and proding people to get their general opinion of homosexuality...I wanted to get a clear picture of who would back me and who I could go to on that day I came out. I asked around for years before I came out at age 15.

The thing is, I'd imagine that someone who was transexual would also do the same, really figure out the values and beliefs of a perspective interest. Similarly to how everyone else also does this to find out job, religious beliefs, likes, dislikes etc. Once you get to know people is when you get this kind of info obviously so that would be apart of the discourse surely.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Again, I'm not trying to justify violence because I was attracted to them. I do think it's fair to be violently pissed if they don't reveal the truth in a reasonable manner. It's the deception that I have a problem with.

They're the ones who've gone out of their way to look like someone who has a vagina (or penis) when they don't, so YES, it IS all their fault. If we didn't wear clothes that are designed to accentuate our masculine/feminine appearances*, have hormone therapy or have operations that make people look like they're of the opposite gender, then you would be right. Since we do have all of these things, you're wrong.

*Which, in the case of transsexuals allows them to have a male/female shape even though they're a female/male.

What... do you guys expect straight people to go around asking potential lovers if they have penis before they start kissing them? Seriously? Straight people aren't the ones living the lie, so why should we be the ones who have to uncover the truth?

I have never had sex with a transsexual, or nor do I plan to.
But, if a transsexual was that damn sexy as to fool me, I'd do her.

 

[Espio]

Now you're attacking women a in general sense by calling them buffons and irrational. Shoutouts to judging people on an individual basis.

 

[rev0lver]

As a gay man, when you're in bed with someone, are you worried about what gender they identify with or are you wanting to have sex with someone with a penis?

And again, nobody's suggesting that it's OK to beat up transsexuals on sight, but beating them to a pulp because they don't respect the fact that I want to fuck a female and they deceived me into thinking they were one when they're not is a lot different than just lynching transsexuals whenever I come across one.

I don't have any desire to have sex with a trans man. The difference is that I apparently have the ability to look at things from their perspective and realize they'd already be upset with my disappointment if I found out they weren't a true man. You're misplacing the blame. They identify as a woman, they go after men if that's what they're into. You're acting like there's something wrong with them wanting to get with a man. Deceit isn't the intention, it's only an ignorant perception.

And beating up a transexual is not okay on sight OR in the bedroom! What the fuck is going on here? All of the sudden they're not even human beings because they're not what you're into? You can't just leave or tell them to leave, instead you have to beat them up because they're different?

 

[rev0lver]

Which is why they should say something BEFOREHAND and avoid the unnecessary possibility of drama. THEY need to be responsible and take extra measures if that's how they are going to live. It's not OUR responsibility.....that's like saying it's a man's responsibility to put the toilet seat down, instead of it being HER responsibility to look where she is going and be aware of her surroundings. You can't survive without Self-awareness.

Did you even realize you countered your own point just because you wanted to make a South Park analogy? In the trans situations we're discussing, it's the man who's lacking self-awareness.

 

[AREZ God of War]

Now you're attacking women a in general sense by calling them buffons and irrational. Shoutouts to judging people on an individual basis.

I call it like I see it. If you don't like hearing the truth, then change the facts. it's not MY fault for believing what i see, feel, tase, touch, understand....


or wait...I'm sorry, Are you one of those people who thinks the REST of the world should change to suit YOUR needs?

Did you even realize you countered your own point just because you wanted to make a South Park analogy? In the trans situations we're discussing, it's the man who's lacking self-awareness.

You say "we" like we're discussing the same thing. I started a discussion on a topic based on the OP and you haven't been on the same page as me from the start. What you just posted is totally ass-backwards, and you'd realized that if you were on the same page in the same discussion. How many joints did you smoke today, man?

Also, I'm pretty sure men and women discussed leaving the lid up before South Park was created.