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Tom Brady's MK9 Tier List

Squeaker101

Show me what you can do
Lao is definately S tier. No way is Ermac and Kung Lao on par in the tier lists.
Yea, UFG said himself Lao got better after the patch. People just seen that his Spin and Low Hat got nerfed and said "WHAT THE HELL? HE NEEDS IT!"
 

Altaire

Noob
Lao is definately S tier. No way is Ermac and Kung Lao on par in the tier lists.
Lao is probably top ten, but I wouldn't put him in S. He has great tools and arguably the greatest overall mobility, but he still has some defensive holes and his counterpoke game is seriously lacking. He just doesn't have any decent mid-hitting footsie tools outside of the roll, and the roll is more about closing space than getting damage. It doesn't combo on hit, and it's disadvantage on block. You CAN create a mixup on block by doing roll into spin, low hat or teleport, but all of these options can get blown up if they're read. It's somewhat safer if you do roll into EX spin, since that's a lot harder to punish if you're not actively looking for it.

When I did my own tier list, I believe I had Lao right around 8th. My top five was something like Kabal, Raiden, Cyrax, Kenshi, Sonya. The rest of top ten consisted of Sektor, Skarlet, Lao, Kitana, Smoke. Jax, Shang, Reptile and Freddy are all in contention for top ten as well, though I think Freddy is somewhat overrated.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Lao is probably top ten, but I wouldn't put him in S. He has great tools and arguably the greatest overall mobility, but he still has some defensive holes and his counterpoke game is seriously lacking. He just doesn't have any decent mid-hitting footsie tools outside of the roll, and the roll is more about closing space than getting damage. It doesn't combo on hit, and it's disadvantage on block. You CAN create a mixup on block by doing roll into spin, low hat or teleport, but all of these options can get blown up if they're read. It's somewhat safer if you do roll into EX spin, since that's a lot harder to punish if you're not actively looking for it.

When I did my own tier list, I believe I had Lao right around 8th. My top five was something like Kabal, Raiden, Cyrax, Kenshi, Sonya. The rest of top ten consisted of Sektor, Skarlet, Lao, Kitana, Smoke. Jax, Shang, Reptile and Freddy are all in contention for top ten as well, though I think Freddy is somewhat overrated.
If freddy is overrated... then shang is VERY overrated.
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
good thing i just moved up the tierlist with kang

i also main smoke though lol hes a beast
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
How do you figure? While Freddy is definitely a better zoner, his offense really isn't that great I think Shang is a more well-rounded character because of his frame traps up close and from a distance, in addition to a decent zoning/footsie game. His normals might also be slightly better.
 

Altaire

Noob
If freddy is overrated... then shang is VERY overrated.
Uh... Shang is awesome for most of the reasons people now think Cage is awesome, and many more reasons. He's an extremely solid character. Freddy, as far as I'm concerned, is just a suped up Noob Saibot. He's definitely top 15, but I don't know if I'd put him in top ten.
 

Altaire

Noob
This. For someone to claim that Freddy is overrated, its ironic that you put one of the most overrated characters in this game for your top five, Altaire. Sonya is scary to fight agianst. She deserves a high placing. Kabal is scary, Jax is scary. Raiden is not scary. Not even the least bit threatening imo. Why do you think he's so high?
Because the teleport is the single greatest counter-poke option in the game.

Raiden may not seem threatening, but that doesn't mean he's not solid. The teleport is SERIOUSLY fucking dumb when used properly, and he has literally everything he would ever need to supplement it: A decent fireball, good low pokes, a good mid-hitting combo starter, a great whiff punisher, and a great counter-poke option. Raiden is good for the simple reason that he has great footsie tools and the sheer stupidity of the teleport. He's also an obligatory pick for top five simply because he has next to no bad matchups, if any (I refuse to believe that Sonya is any worse than 5-5). In fact, the only reason I'd say Kabal is better is because while Raiden has mostly even matchups, Kabal has mostly 6-4s.

The five characters I put in S tier (my entire top five) all made it there by virtue of their matchup charts. Every one of them has next to no bad matchups. The only exception is Cyrax, and he makes it in there by way of sheer damage, which means he has to make far fewer correct guesses to win than any other character in the game. He may not be as consistent as the other four, but he makes up for it by having an extremely stacked risk-reward ratio. My Soul Calibur V tier list was the same way: Everyone in my top five has next to no weaknesses apart from Astaroth, but he makes it in because one or two correct guesses will win him the round.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Uh... Shang is awesome for most of the reasons people now think Cage is awesome, and many more reasons. He's an extremely solid character. Freddy, as far as I'm concerned, is just a suped up Noob Saibot. He's definitely top 15, but I don't know if I'd put him in top ten.
he's solid... but overrated. Freddy is far beyond what Noob brings to the table.
 

Altaire

Noob
How do you figure? While Freddy is definitely a better zoner, his offense really isn't that great I think Shang is a more well-rounded character because of his frame traps up close and from a distance, in addition to a decent zoning/footsie game. His normals might also be slightly better.
More than slightly better. F4 3 4 is hella dumb, and Shang also has both a good low starter and a decent overhead. He has a lot of great normals, and the option to link into ground skulls for free block advantage is definitely an asset. I don't think people realize that Shang's pressure is actually a bigger threat than his zoning is.
 
Okay then sunshine, tell me what your purported top five for SC5 is at the moment.

I can't wait to hear all sorts of dumb shit like "Nightmare is OP", "Siegfried is bottom five" and "Pyrrha is better than Pyrrha Omega".
Alpha, Mitsurugi, Cervantes, Viola and Omega.

Don't get me wrong, Astaroth is far from garbage - when that guy gets some momentum going, he's downright scary. But top 5? No way - those five characters I just listed are all definitely superior, and there are others I can think of who are all-around better too (Patroklos).
 

Altaire

Noob
Alpha, Mitsurugi, Cervantes, Viola and Omega.

Don't get me wrong, Astaroth is far from garbage - when that guy gets some momentum going, he's downright scary. But top 5? No way - those five characters I just listed are all definitely superior, and there are others I can think of who are all-around better too (Patroklos).
Viola. In top five.

All credibility lost in the blink of an eye.

Pat is a strictly inferior version of Pyrrha Omega, by the way, so good call. She has 90% of the same tools, but better. The 10% he has over her isn't even worth the tradeoff. Factor in that her back dash is great and his is abysmal, and there's your "all-around better" character. Astaroth is one of the most brainless characters in the game, and I say this as someone who plays him. All you have to do is fish for a counter hit with that bullshit knee, and it's all over. Factor in that 88B BE takes off a solid 120 damage on hit when you combo into his air throw, and yeah, Astaroth is pretty dumb.
 
Then I can't even talk to you.

Saying "she's extremely good at forcing 50/50s" is THE BIGGEST moot point I've ever heard. Name me one top-tier character who CAN'T do that.
Viola gets special note in that regard because of set-ups like 6B+K. Though if you want an example of a top-tier character who can't force 50/50s well, then Omega. Her low arsenal is pretty lacklustre, but then she easily makes up for that with guard pressure.

What are your reasons for thinking that Viola ISN'T top 5?
 

WayoftheFist

Cold day in hell...
Mileena in B Jax in A or A+ and smoke in A+. Everything else SEEMS to be right I'm just not sure.

Sent from my LG-US670 using Tapatalk 2
I can't think of a reason why Smoke isn't an S tier character. IMO he is 4th in the game just like Brady said and the 3 above him are not so much better that he shouldn't be in the same class as them.
 

Altaire

Noob
Viola gets special note in that regard because of set-ups like 6B+K. Though if you want an example of a top-tier character who can't force 50/50s well, then Omega. Her low arsenal is pretty lacklustre, but then she easily makes up for that with guard pressure.

What are your reasons for thinking that Viola ISN'T top 5?
So... You're telling me that 1K, 1A A and 11A are lacklustre(sic) low options. Better yet, you think her "guard pressure" is what makes her top five, and not the fact that DNS B is a stupidly powerful high crush that's completely safe on block.

I stand by my prior statement.