You opinion on 1 or 2 for anti air.

[Under_The_Mayo]

This has been an internal debate for me for a while. Standing 1, or Standing 2. I'd like to hear the arguments.

Obviously a SC is your best anti-air. But that's 9% damage. We can take much more. The easiest anti-air combo to intercept someone is 2 1 RK, F3 2 SC. It 22% damage, and it stuffs jump kicks too.

However, his standing 1 jab is a bit faster. 10 frames vs 12 frames. After standing 1, you can dash forward to F22RK, F3 2 SC. Generally, I have preferred 2 1 because it's incredibly easy, and the follow up after standing 1 can whiff depending on the distance. Hitting 2 1 pretty much guarantees the whole combo will hit.

It's hard for me to tell, but I want to say that standing 2 has a bigger forward hitbox than standing 1. I swear, I hit your jump kick from mid screen with that jab.

The reason I ask this question is specifically to deal with Kung Lao. We know we can't really SC to anti air him, because his air teleport will punish us for 40%. I started using 2 1 a lot more against my team to practice, but I get the same problem. If he teleports and I hit 2 1, he has equal time to punish the whiff. So we HAVE to use a single jab so we can block if we miss and he teleports.

So what do you guys think? Is standing 1 or standing 2 better? All opinions welcome.

 

[Tolkeen]

Dizzy was dicking around with Kenshi and he used his standing 1 like it was JC's, which means it must be good. And a 1,rk, 21b2 sc will give you 23% ( I think) so I tend to feel this is the better option since the RK won't come out unless the 1 hits (again I think), meaning you're only whiffing a 10 frame move over a 12 frame move. However, my AA's are not as good as Dizzy so maybe it's just his reactions are better, and he makes up for the potential hitbox difference.
In short, I think standing 1 is better and until someone shows me that it isn't, it will be the one that I try to use.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Dizzy was dicking around with Kenshi and he used his standing 1 like it was JC's, which means it must be good. And a 1,rk, 21b2 sc will give you 23% ( I think) so I tend to feel this is the better option since the RK won't come out unless the 1 hits (again I think), meaning you're only whiffing a 10 frame move over a 12 frame move. However, my AA's are not as good as Dizzy so maybe it's just his reactions are better, and he makes up for the potential hitbox difference.
In short, I think standing 1 is better and until someone shows me that it isn't, it will be the one that I try to use.

Play some casuals and try anti-airing with standing 2 for a while. Tell me it doesnt reach ridiculously far. If the hit box is as different as I think, I think a strong argument could be made for using standing 2. I'm so torn.

 

[Tolkeen]

Play some casuals and try anti-airing with standing 2 for a while. Tell me it doesnt reach ridiculously far. If the hit box is as different as I think, I think a strong argument could be made for using standing 2. I'm so torn.

Okay, I'll try to mess around with it this weekend if I get a chance to play, I'll get back to you with a more detailed impression on it vs standing 1.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Okay, I'll try to mess around with it this weekend if I get a chance to play, I'll get back to you with a more detailed impression on it vs standing 1.

Also, are you doing standing 1 RK like a canceled string? Or are you hitting standing 1, confirming, and then doing an RK as they fall? If you're doing them together, than this isn't a valid option against kung lao. Because if you input 1RK all together, and KL teleports, you're gonna get a whiffed 1 1. And that gives lao enough time to punish you from behind. Against him, you have to use a single jab, and then confirm into whatever you do next. Whether it be RK, for F22RK, or dash D1Rk.

 

[Skitzo]

I've seen some use 2 instead of 1. But they both probably work properly

 

[G4S KT]

Standing 2 100%

bigger hitbox > 2 frames faster

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Standing 2 100%

bigger hitbox > 2 frames faster

Thanks for your input. I'm leaning that way myself. I'm just having trouble confirming that 2 does infact have a bigger hitbox.

 

[LEGEND]

i use both kinda at random, if i think they are going to JK i just EX RK. Probably not the best idea but neither 1 or 2 are reliable enough AAs for me when i don't want to be JKed

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

i use both kinda at random, if i think they are going to JK i just EX RK. Probably not the best idea but neither 1 or 2 are reliable enough AAs for me when i don't want to be JKed

From my experience, standing 2 stuffs jump kicks like crazy.

 

[LEGEND]

From my experience, standing 2 stuffs jump kicks like crazy.

i'll try it out more, thanks

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I use standing 2 and it's amazing.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Definitely 2. Even though 1 I think is a safer bet, you make a good point when it comes to Lao.
Stupid goddamn Teleport...

I gotta try hitting 2 more often. Almost Sub-Zero 22 like in its power. Mmm.

 

[Tolkeen]

Thanks for your input. I'm leaning that way myself. I'm just having trouble confirming that 2 does infact have a bigger hitbox.

2 definitely has a larger horizontal hitbox, but it appears like the the vertical may be the same size.
I went into practice mode and put the dummy on block and I alternated 1 and 2, to see which would hit at a further point, and 2 definitely wins out on that count. I also noticed that standing one moves kenshi forward about half to one of his feet. If you whiff it, you will see what I mean. Standing 2 while reaching more forward, appears to swing a full fist below standing 1 (which is brought up to his face), however he ducks his head to match the standing two, I'm not sure if this will affect it's usefulness on jips or jiks at all, or if it's only visual, but I just thought I'd share what I saw.

I'm thinking that you may be right about using standing 2 over standing 1, 2 rk 21b2sc gives 25% which is more than the 23 I was getting with standing 1. And it appears to be easier to hit confirm it, so you're not eating a KL teleport.

 

[NariTuba]

Also, are you doing standing 1 RK like a canceled string? Or are you hitting standing 1, confirming, and then doing an RK as they fall? If you're doing them together, than this isn't a valid option against kung lao. Because if you input 1RK all together, and KL teleports, you're gonna get a whiffed 1 1. And that gives lao enough time to punish you from behind.

Cant you option select it with the negative edge? (ie 1,d,b)

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

2 definitely has a larger horizontal hitbox, but it appears like the the vertical may be the same size.
I went into practice mode and put the dummy on block and I alternated 1 and 2, to see which would hit at a further point, and 2 definitely wins out on that count. I also noticed that standing one moves kenshi forward about half to one of his feet. If you whiff it, you will see what I mean. Standing 2 while reaching more forward, appears to swing a full fist below standing 1 (which is brought up to his face), however he ducks his head to match the standing two, I'm not sure if this will affect it's usefulness on jips or jiks at all, or if it's only visual, but I just thought I'd share what I saw.

I'm thinking that you may be right about using standing 2 over standing 1, 2 rk 21b2sc gives 25% which is more than the 23 I was getting with standing 1. And it appears to be easier to hit confirm it, so you're not eating a KL teleport.

I'm glad you see it too. I really feel like standing 2 is the way to go. But it would need to go like this: 2, F2 2 RK, F3 2 SC (or F2 2 B2) for 24%. That's how it will go against KL. Hit 2, wait for the hit confirm into F22RK or just RK or a dash down1RK. If you input 2RK together from the start and he teleports, you're dead.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Cant you option select it with the negative edge? (ie 1,d,b)

Actually, I suppose you can. I didn't think about using the negative edge there. If you're using standing 1.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I do:

2 > F32 xx RK > F32 xx Shoulder for 27%

It's extremely consistent.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

I do:

2 > F32 xx RK > F32 xx Shoulder for 27%

It's extremely consistent.

The only think I don't like about following 2 with F3 2 is that it's height dependent. I don't want to AA, and then drop it because he was too low to the ground when he fell.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

The only think I don't like about following 2 with F3 2 is that it's height dependent. I don't want to AA, and then drop it because he was too low to the ground when he fell.

It isn't as height dependent as you would think. You would have to AA someone stupid low for it not to connect.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Hey Mayo do you find D1 as a AA for cross ups to work well?

Lately im finding out it works well

Played Bildslash today (his kung lao) to test out my new tech for lao and it works really well once you start to get it down

But i noticed if i do d1 early it never works but you have to wait a little longer than say smoke

Also I noticed that the kenshi player has to 10000% on his toes man because if you miss the tech oppertunity you have to be ready to block instant 3 and poke out w d1 at right time

Lao's d3 is a pain in the ass due to reach, you can't counter poke it

You must counter poke it w 8 frame poke (SC )

Bildslash What are your thoughts on this man?

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Hey Mayo do you find D1 as a AA for cross ups to work well?

Lately im finding out it works well

Played Bildslash today (his kung lao) to test out my new tech for lao and it works really well once you start to get it down

But i noticed if i do d1 early it never works but you have to wait a little longer than say smoke

Also I noticed that the kenshi player has to 10000% on his toes man because if you miss the tech oppertunity you have to be ready to block instant 3 and poke out w d1 at right time

Lao's d3 is a pain in the ass due to reach, you can't counter poke it

You must counter poke it w 8 frame poke (SC )

Bildslash What are your thoughts on this man?

Pig get on skype so we can talk about all this.

And for everyone, these are some bullshit casuals I recorded for fun in Mexico City. But in the fights of the first 6 minutes, you'll see several standing 2 anti-airs. Just look at the range of it. Particularly around 5:30 when I hit two of them.

 

[Bildslash]

Hey Mayo do you find D1 as a AA for cross ups to work well?

Lately im finding out it works well

Played Bildslash today (his kung lao) to test out my new tech for lao and it works really well once you start to get it down

But i noticed if i do d1 early it never works but you have to wait a little longer than say smoke

Also I noticed that the kenshi player has to 10000% on his toes man because if you miss the tech oppertunity you have to be ready to block instant 3 and poke out w d1 at right time

Lao's d3 is a pain in the ass due to reach, you can't counter poke it

You must counter poke it w 8 frame poke (SC )

Bildslash What are your thoughts on this man?

Well, after watching your video I went to the lab to test the tech because eventhough I use Kung Lao I too struggle against opposing Tele Instant Kick. Plus, that's why I picked Lao during our session, to test it out.

What I found out (using the training dummy only) is that the tech work as long as the KL player doesn't do the Teleport mid string. Using the most common strings -, , , +, and - with every one of them save the last one the dummy automatically turned around even when holding block on crouch position.

But overall, from our games whenever you read my Teleports and waited the tech worked. Lag screwed your Rising Karma follow up, but the + certainly worked as intended. Though I don't know if my lab findings apply to a human player, because if they do that means KL can pressure characters like Kenshi more comfortably by doing Tele Instant Kick mid string.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Well, after watching your video I went to the lab to test the tech because eventhough I use Kung Lao I too struggle against opposing Tele Instant Kick. Plus, that's why I picked Lao during our session, to test it out.

What I found out (using the training dummy only) is that the tech work as long as the KL player doesn't do the Teleport mid string. Using the most common strings -, , , +, and - with every one of them save the last one the dummy automatically turned around even when holding block on crouch position.

But overall, from our games whenever you read my Teleports and waited the tech worked. Lag screwed your Rising Karma follow up, but the + certainly worked as intended. Though I don't know if my lab findings apply to a human player, because if they do that means KL can pressure characters like Kenshi more comfortably by doing Tele Instant Kick mid string.

Thank you. I will have a video soon talking about Kenshi vs Lao and the teleport. There`s a much better way to deal with it mid string.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Bildslash you've helped me out a lot

Do u the ability to record our games?

I wanna test this w a human (mid string)

I'm glad u noticed the connection on the d1 rk I was cringing lol

We both were effected in some areas I noticed
Vggs


Let's do more cause this was a huge help