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Sonya is a top 3 character

M2Dave

Zoning Master
REO and I were talking about Sonya and how the Sonya players in our respective states, Riu48 in New York and Master D. in Ohio, are winning certain fights that the community regards as losing 7:3 match ups for Sonya. Users on this forum like to complain about zoning characters because they cannot get in for free to initiate their offense. However, take the following from two guys who main Kabal and Freddy.

- Sonya vs Kabal 4.5 : 5.5

- Sonya vs Freddy 5 : 5

Zoning in this game is overrated because it is very difficult to overcome the two most powerful anti-zoning tools in the game: dash block and neutral crouch. Once you acquire the skill of approaching without blocking too much, you will win. But that is perhaps another subject for another thread. I want to talk about Sonya. In my personal opinion, Sonya is a top 3 character in the game. I would say that she is the second best character in the game after Kabal at the moment. She has tools that no other character has. Allow me to elaborate.

- d+4 xx MS f+1 is one of the best offensive tools in the game. d+4 lets Sonya start her offense far away. MS f+1 is +1 on block. In other words, Sonya can put herself at a +1 advantage almost three characters away. Also, using d+4 xx MS f+1 xx CW, she builds slightly more than half a bar almost three characters away.

- dive kick has a 4F start up and leads to 40% juggles, which is common knowledge by now. But the best Sonya players know how to use the dive kick in footsies. They can neutral jump, react, and punish the safest low pokes in the game. She is the only character in the game who can punish universal d+1s, d+3s, and d+4s with a 40% damaging combo. You become reluctant to poke in situations where it is usually safe to do so, which only turns the tables around and allows her to initiate the offense.

- Sonya has the best set of universal normal attacks in the game. The standing jab (i.e., 1) is very fast at 7F. Uppercut also has a 7F start up. d+1 has a 6F start up. Obviously, she also has a long range d+4. Because of all these fast and long pokes, she is very difficult to jump on and break down defensively.

- CW and EX CW. Well, the CW has its own thread, so I do not need to make any further comments. However, I would like to mention that EX CW is better than Rain's EX superkick. EX CW has less armor than EX superkick, but EX CW is slightly faster and has more range and a superior hitbox. EX CW will never whiff on Mileena's d+4. EX superkick will. I honestly believe EX CW is the overall best defensive move in the game.

- Onion Ring has average start up frames and a poor hitbox but recovers very fast. I have no idea why she even has this special move. She does not even need a projectile that is this effective. Baraka should have probably had this version. LOL.

I can upload Sonya vs Freddy videos in the near future, but in the mean time be sure to watch out for Master D.'s Sonya at MLG.
 

Death

Noob
Agree with everything and I also think shes in the top 5. But her going even with Freddy and Kenshi is crazy talk.

Also, zoning is overrated but not when you main freddy or kenshi. Characters like Kitana, mileena, noob, liu kang etc. Essentially characters with IA projectile are are overrated because you can dash block your way in and/or sit on life leads cuz they dont chip. And characters like Noob recovery on his projectiles is shit. But zoning characters like kenshi/Freddy is amazing. Safe armor. Safe zoning. Frame traps from full screen.

Zoning from Kenshi and Freddy is not overrated at all. Those characters can win MUs just off zoning alone.
 

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
Agree with everything you said. I don't think people seem to realize how effective rings are in certain MUs. Reptile and Cage? Why the hell bother approaching them initially? Blast out those onion rings; you'll likely have a bar once they get in and can use EX cartwheel, put them in a standing reset, build another half bar of meter off a block string (oh no, my pressure) and essentially continue all of this. I really feel that arc kick is horribly underrated as well, you make a right read and they're back to the opposite end of the screen. While yes, I realize this is Sonya's one actually punishable on block special :rolleyes: it doesn't dismiss how effective it can be in certain MUs.

Point being, why does Sonya have these zoning capabilities for being a rushdown character with the best defensive move in the game? Special forces!
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
What character in this game doesn't have a fireball?

Reo is the ultimate troll, I am impressed.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Agree with everything and I also think shes in the top 5. But her going even with Freddy and Kenshi is crazy talk.

Also, zoning is overrated but not when you main freddy or kenshi. Characters like Kitana, mileena, noob, liu kang etc. Essentially characters with IA projectile are are overrated because you can dash block your way in and/or sit on life leads cuz they dont chip. And characters like Noob recovery on his projectiles is shit. But zoning characters like kenshi/Freddy is amazing. Safe armor. Safe zoning. Frame traps from full screen.

Zoning from Kenshi and Freddy is not overrated at all. Those characters can win MUs just off zoning alone.
I cannot speak for Kenshi, but I can speak for Freddy.

Do you know how fireballs work in SF? None of them can be neutral crouched and all have pushback on block, which is the exact opposite of MK.

Players who truly know how to fight against Freddy (and lucky for me there are only a handful of them) have learned to neutral-crouch GTs on reaction 90% of the time. As soon as you neutral-crouch, you can dash foward because Freddy is stuck in recovery frames. FF has a slow start up, so if you jump early, Freddy cannot AA you with a spike. Speaking of spikes, they have no pushback on block and leave Freddy at -15 on block. Block one and dash in. Do you see how every option actually allows you to advance forward for free?

I am not suggesting that Freddy's zoning is bad, by the way. I am arguing that zoning does not dominate this game in any way, shape, or form as long as you know how to react to fireballs. Therefore, you will eventually get in and do some damage with a character like Sonya, especially since she can initiate her offense so far away. Trust me. Sonya vs Freddy is an even match up.
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
Bring your best Freddy player to MLG and Master D. will whoop him with three different characters that are considered in Freddy's favor.
You just need to stop thinking in special moves dude. Freddy has some amazing tools, just open up your mind a little and work on the bad situations. You've pigeon holed yourself into believing you are only good at zoning, that is your weakness as a player.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
You just need to stop thinking in special moves dude. Freddy has some amazing tools, just open up your mind a little and work on the bad situations. You've pigeon holed yourself into believing you are only good at zoning, that is your weakness as a player.
You do not understand. Sonya's footsies and rush down are obviously a lot better than Freddy's. It is not like he can fight her in five different ways.

Most of you are making judgements based on your limited experiences fighting Freddy. I regularly fight someone who has played Freddy thousands of times. Sonya does not lose badly to Freddy and Kabal. You have to learn how to approach these two characters effectively.
 

LEGEND

YES!
i feel another "Jax" moment going on, hopefully it doesn't take 5 months to for people to figure out a character this time

there is almost no reason to ever block the second hit of MS-F1, D4 MS links can be easily interrupted if D4 is blocked. cartwheel gets blown up on read by walking back or NJPs. Dive kicks are fully punishable (please spam them). she has no safe momentum move. Average projectile. high hitting strings/slow mid hitters. Cartwheel is -3 on block. Shitty D3. average damage outside Dive kicks and B2. Shitty X-ray (like that matters anyway though). Totally predictable playstyle, not much room for innovation.

kinda rambling here but whatever, Sonya is getting over hyped just like every other "character of the month" BS thats been going on

PS: SMOKE SMOKE SMOKE
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
i feel another "Jax" moment going on, hopefully it doesn't take 5 months to for people to figure out a character this time

there is almost no reason to ever block the second hit of MS-F1, D4 MS links can be easily interrupted if D4 is blocked. cartwheel gets blown up on read by walking back or NJPs. Dive kicks are fully punishable (please spam them). she has no safe momentum move. Average projectile. high hitting strings/slow mid hitters. Cartwheel is -3 on block. Shitty D3. average damage outside Dive kicks and B2. Shitty X-ray (like that matters anyway though). Totally predictable playstyle, not much room for innovation.

kinda rambling here but whatever, Sonya is getting over hyped just like every other "character of the month" BS thats been going on

PS: SMOKE SMOKE SMOKE
How is d+4 xx MS f+1 interruptable? You are either trolling or you are not very bright.

What is this garbage? This is not the second week of the game's release.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
how do you interrupt d+4~ms on block?

zoning really is becoming far less relevant. Depressing, isn't it Dave? :(
 

Death

Noob
How is d+4 xx MS f+1 interruptable? You are either trolling or you are not very bright.

What is this garbage? This is not the second week of the game's release.
Armor can interrupt it. I also think when you blocked the D+4 MS F+1 can be jumped out of.
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
I am not suggesting that Freddy's zoning is bad, by the way. I am arguing that zoning does not dominate this game in any way, shape, or form as long as you know how to react to fireballs. Therefore, you will eventually get in and do some damage with a character like Sonya, especially since she can initiate her offense so far away. Trust me. Sonya vs Freddy is an even match up.
I'm glad I am not the only who thought this, confirmed by an offline Freddy Kreuger tournament player. Freddy is not a bad match up for Sonya, others disagree and put zoning ahead which complicates Sonya but it's not hard for her to get in on Freddy. Even if it's online, I've played xXBuryMeinBlackXx and we go back and forth with Sonya/Freddy. To be quite honest, he's like the only Freddy who plays offensive rushdown with a unique style that no Freddy has been streamed yet he knows the fundamentals of zoning, his Freddy Kreuger is how he should be played. Sonya and Freddy is even all along.
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
Don't ignore the rest of the dudes post because he stated one thing incorrectly. Regardless you know for sure the d4 xx ms f1 mix up is low, so she has 3 blocked hits and then a basic mind game.

This is the only scenario where Sonya can gain frame advantage, which isn't game breaking... Multiple characters do the same thing.
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
You just need to stop thinking in special moves dude. Freddy has some amazing tools, just open up your mind a little and work on the bad situations. You've pigeon holed yourself into believing you are only good at zoning, that is your weakness as a player.
Sao87 are you on PSN or XBL?
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
Sonya is getting over hyped just like every other "character of the month"
The more Sonya becomes overrated by the community, she will be nerfed. She is already a solid character from the start. Easily, if Sonya were getting nerfed I can already see her Military Stance being nerfed, the armor on her Ex Cartwheel, damage nerf, Dive Kick recovery nerf... all complaints from the community that will ruin Sonya and nerf her to hell. *smh*

Watch, next month April will be the hype over Sektor. Some characters should be left "as is" Sonya is one of them.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
zoning really is becoming far less relevant. Depressing, isn't it Dave? :(
Well, I think zoning is still relevant, but it is not the dominant strategy that some players make it out to be. Projectiles are best used for meter building. If you only zone, you will corner yourself and die (see Kabal vs Jax). I believe the game revolves around footsies and rushdown at the highest level of play.

Death, I will test. I find it hard to believe, though, because canceled d+4s give ridiculous advantage on block.
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
Both, but I don't play online. It conditions you to stop doing too many things that are important.
I was going to have someone play you online, refer him over to you so you two can do a set of matches. I'll ask him about it.