DOOM: The Dark Ages

[Dankster Morgan]

I have been playing with the custom settings a bit and found an awesome way to play..... basically turn down the projectile speed as slow as possible, but make the player damage super high.... what this dose is really make the "bullet hell" thing front and centre. I think the monster fire rates are not effected, so often you have waves of bullets slowly coming at you... dodging and reflecting.. it is super fun.

Dang sounds like a blast. The replay value is gonna be insane.

 

[PrinceGoro]

If you watch Digital Foundry's review of id Tech 8, you'll see one of the big benefits to ray tracing from a development standpoint is that while building an area of the game, the lighting can be done in real time; it doesn't need to render out for the artists and designers to see how it'll look. This saves massive amounts of time during development.

Thus, since all the consoles are now ray tracing capable and with RTX cards being the common PC graphics cards according to Steam surveys, we're seeing mandatory ray tracing more and more, and that won't change.

Certainly on console, I personally think the cost of ray tracing (lower resolution and frame rates needed) typically outweighs the benefit, but it is what it is.

For frame rate and DOOM: The Dark Ages, on console, only the Xbox Series X has a solid 60 FPS. All 3 other consoles can not hold the frame rate, with the PlayStation 5 having the worst performance. This happens in hectic battles apparently, the so the game is solid and quite playable on all consoles, but it explains the lack of an unlocked frame rate.

Thats all nice with the new engine and technology and stuff but i think they shot themeselves in the foot with mandstory RT, sales wise.

I didnt even know its gonna be RT only so i got the game, it activates on the 15th and then i see i cant run it cause my card doesnt have RT lol.

I have a rx 5700 xt 50th ann edition and i run all these newer games pretty good, like stalker 2 or kcd2 which are super demanding(60 fps on both on near max settings at 1440p with some dips on certain sections)
Im suprised myself how much milage im getting out of this card and i was planning on replacing if it dies or i see major decrease in performance.

Its kinda dumb i have to look into replacing my card when the old one is serving pretty damn good. And for 1 game hahah, this forced rt is so strange and it doesnt seem like an industry standard yet.

 

[Jynks]

Its kinda dumb i have to look into replacing my card when the old one is serving pretty damn good. And for 1 game hahah, this forced rt is so strange and it doesn't seem like an industry standard yet.

not really... that is how all games work. Eventually a game comes out that requires new hardware. Also, if it isn't industry standard, it will be soon. I would bet GTA will be for example.

 

[PrinceGoro]

not really... that is how all games work. Eventually a game comes out that requires new hardware. Also, if it isn't industry standard, it will be soon. I would bet GTA will be for example.

Well GTA6 is not coming out on PC for another 2 years likely, if not even more, so thats a whole different conversation.

 

[Jynks]

I'm just saying... some game has to be first.... I'd be pretty surprised if other aaa games are not following suit, particularly as doom5 sold so well and is such a massive hit. X amount of games are in mid production, but once new aaa games go into production from now on, they will be the same, and some major aaa games, like doom 5 coming soon will also be the same.

 

[PrinceGoro]

I'm just saying... some game has to be first.... I'd be pretty surprised if other aaa games are not following suit, particularly as doom5 sold so well and is such a massive hit. X amount of games are in mid production, but once new aaa games go into production from now on, they will be the same, and some major aaa games, like doom 5 coming soon will also be the same.

So far only 2 games did it, that i know off.
Indiana jones and doom the dark ages.
Im not sure how this mandatory ray tracing thing will go as its still a hefty performance impact even on high end cards on 1440p and 4k resolutions, the optimisation of it still got ways to go before its set in stone across the board.

 

[Jynks]

2 for now... mk2 might have it forced... just saying. Expect more and expect it to be the norm.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I think it definitely will be the norm, unfortunately I don’t think the current gen consoles are powerful enough to make to worth it. Xbox being the only system to run doom at a locked 60 fps now is unfortunate, when doom 2016 and eternal ran at 60fps on XB1/PS4, they’ve lost the plot a little bit.

As for TDA, I’ve had some more time to play and got through the dragon level. The dragon and mech are fun and a really nice pace breaker, but I think they’re gonna drag on replays since they’re not very deep. Still fun though.

 

[PrinceGoro]

I think it definitely will be the norm, unfortunately I don’t think the current gen consoles are powerful enough to make to worth it. Xbox being the only system to run doom at a locked 60 fps now is unfortunate, when doom 2016 and eternal ran at 60fps on XB1/PS4, they’ve lost the plot a little bit.

As for TDA, I’ve had some more time to play and got through the dragon level. The dragon and mech are fun and a really nice pace breaker, but I think they’re gonna drag on replays since they’re not very deep. Still fun though.

Thats good to hear, as my main concern with the game was those dragon and mech sections. The only consisten criticism of the game i saw was the music, everyone says it kinda sucks and that the mix is not well implemented in the gameplay. Losing mick was a huge deal, they probably tought they will just have someone else compose some metal tracks and nobody will even think about it.

Game seems really fun overall so im looking forward to playing it as soon as i get a new gpu.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Thats good to hear, as my main concern with the game was those dragon and mech sections. The only consisten criticism of the game i saw was the music, everyone says it kinda sucks and that the mix is not well implemented in the gameplay. Losing mick was a huge deal, they probably tought they will just have someone else compose some metal tracks and nobody will even think about it.

Game seems really fun overall so im looking forward to playing it as soon as i get a new gpu.

Agreed that the soundtrack is a noticeable step down. The BFG division sequence won’t ever be topped music wise.

 

[Jynks]

Music is fine. Plenty of people prefer it to the eternal stuff, as it has more melody to it.

They are more like actual song in a way. While the music still changes based on the player actions it is so much smoother and transitions better. Gone are the eternal "quick changes" between tracks, it now sounds like a continual soundtrack, even though the songs still adjust to what you are doing, which is awesome.

I would recommend turning the music to 100 and voice and effects at least 1/2 volume or more, then turning the volume up on your tv until the effect sounds are loud. No the music should be front and centre blasting away, but you had to do that with the other 2 games as well... so basically nothing has changed.

 

[Juxtapose]

Some mixing isn't working correctly and HDR is broken on PS5 and PC last I checked.

Ah, if it's not an issue on Xbox Series, then that'd explain why I haven't noticed.

Thats all nice with the new engine and technology and stuff but i think they shot themeselves in the foot with mandstory RT, sales wise.

As @Jynks mentioned, it's going to be the norm now more and more as time goes on. As I mentioned above, it really helps with development, and all modern cards and consoles support it.

Not saying I agree or not, simply stating the reality.

... unfortunately I don’t think the current gen consoles are powerful enough to make to worth it. Xbox being the only system to run doom at a locked 60 fps now is unfortunate, when doom 2016 and eternal ran at 60fps on XB1/PS4, they’ve lost the plot a little bit.

They're not. The Xbox Series S is roughly a GTX 1060 with RT capability. The PlayStation 5 is roughly a RTX 2070 Super, and the Xbox Series X is roughly a RTX 2080. Not sure about the PlayStation 5 Pro. Overall though, ray tracing often has a big negative effect on performance on console, which is why we've seen games on PlayStation 5 running at native 720p just to do it. It's nice when it works, but I personally think RT should be used sparingly this gen. The only game I've played where it looks great and doesn't hurt performance is with Gears 5. Mandatory on Xbox Series X and even Series S, locked 60 FPS, and no issues.

For 2016 and Eternal on last gen, keep in mind 2016 was not a locked 60 on PlayStation 4 pro or Xbox One X, only the base consoles. Eternal was locked pretty much everywhere and played best on the Xbox One X.

For The Dark Ages, I do expect performance will be tightened up on Xbox Series S, PlayStation 5 Pro, and PlayStation 5 via a patch. It is id Software and they're one of the best in the business when it comes to optimization.

Losing mick was a huge deal,

The thing is, Mick did it to himself. He was very difficult to work with on DOOM Eternal, they had trouble having him delivery tracks in time for release, and he failed completely to deliver the OST for release. While he's a very talented composer, he evidently had lots of issues and working with his BS wasn't worth it. As someone who works in the entertainment industry, I agree with id cutting him loose.

For the current soundtrack, it is really good. I linked it on the first page. You can take a listen. There's lots of themes from Mick's tracks at various points.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Ah, if it's not an issue on Xbox Series, then that'd explain why I haven't noticed.



As @Jynks mentioned, it's going to be the norm now more and more as time goes on. As I mentioned above, it really helps with development, and all modern cards and consoles support it.

Not saying I agree or not, simply stating the reality.



They're not. The Xbox Series S is roughly a GTX 1060 with RT capability. The PlayStation 5 is roughly a RTX 2070 Super, and the Xbox Series X is roughly a RTX 2080. Not sure about the PlayStation 5 Pro. Overall though, ray tracing often has a big negative effect on performance on console, which is why we've seen games on PlayStation 5 running at native 720p just to do it. It's nice when it works, but I personally think RT should be used sparingly this gen. The only game I've played where it looks great and doesn't hurt performance is with Gears 5. Mandatory on Xbox Series X and even Series S, locked 60 FPS, and no issues.

For 2016 and Eternal on last gen, keep in mind 2016 was not a locked 60 on PlayStation 4 pro or Xbox One X, only the base consoles. Eternal was locked pretty much everywhere and played best on the Xbox One X.

For The Dark Ages, I do expect performance will be tightened up on Xbox Series S, PlayStation 5 Pro, and PlayStation 5 via a patch. It is id Software and they're one of the best in the business when it comes to optimization.



The thing is, Mick did it to himself. He was very difficult to work with on DOOM Eternal, they had trouble having him delivery tracks in time for release, and he failed completely to deliver the OST for release. While he's a very talented composer, he evidently had lots of issues and working with his BS wasn't worth it. As someone who works in the entertainment industry, I agree with id cutting him loose.

For the current soundtrack, it is really good. I linked it on the first page. You can take a listen. There's lots of themes from Mick's tracks at various points.

I kinda was under the impression that mick was fucked over

 

[Jynks]

The narrative is muddled, he defiantly claims he was, but ID says the same thing about him. One thing they both agree on is that he came in way over budget, and didn't hit his deadlines for any of the music, then after a extension failed again, and then failed the dead line a 3rd time, and then ID commissioned a new artist to finish his songs. That is what they both publicly agree on.

 

[PrinceGoro]

I kinda was under the impression that mick was fucked over

Yeah was just about to say, i remember watching a detailed run over of the situation at the time and that marty guy was a total ass to mick. He framed it as if it was mick that was impossible to work with but in reality he screwed him over.


@Juxtapose Yeah i know the tech is on the way to it being mandatory, though it does seem shaky on implementation considering how unoptimized it still is. I was due to upgrading anyway so its not too big of a deal but it sucks having to do it earlier then neccessary for, as it stands now, 1 game that i could probably run max settings without ray tracing.

 

[Eldriken]

Mandatory RT is so fucking stupid and I have a machine that can handle RT just fine. But Jesus Christ, even then, I turn it off because I don't care for it. When it's forced, however, there is no turning it off.

This is gonna be the next big thing, I bet. RT is gonna become a "necessity" in every god damn game known to man. Oy. -_-

Voxel-based game? RAY TRACING, BITCHES.

 

[Mikemetroid]

I'm on chapter 13, this game is pretty boring. Playing on the hardest difficulty unmodified isn't really engaging. Setting the speed up only makes the game feel more comical and its not really changing my issues with the game. Turret sections/forced on rail sections are for some reason here as well? I'd much rather play 2016...

 

[PrinceGoro]

Heres micks full statement, its a long read but explains everyrhing on the matter with receits

My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

This statement is issued in response to id Software Studio Director Marty Stratton’s “DOOM Eternal OST Open Letter”, published on Reddit.

medium.com

 

[PrinceGoro]

I'm on chapter 13, this game is pretty boring. Playing on the hardest difficulty unmodified isn't really engaging. Setting the speed up only makes the game feel more comical and its not really changing my issues with the game. Turret sections/forced on rail sections are for some reason here as well? I'd much rather play 2016...

Seems like they were cautios to not release it too hard and put the sliders in so you csn tune the experiance without having to wait for a patch.

I guess you could bump up player damage taken, reduce damage you do to enemies and increase the speed of enemy projectiles a bit to make it a bit tougher.

From very limited gameplay of unmodified nightmare difficulty i watched,to not spoil to much for myself, i did notice that enemies die really quick.

 

[Marinjuana]

I'm not anticipating that the story demands I finish Eternal before playing Dark Ages but any thoughts on this? Should I finish Eternal before moving on to this?

 

[PrinceGoro]

I'm not anticipating that the story demands I finish Eternal before playing Dark Ages but any thoughts on this? Should I finish Eternal before moving on to this?

Dark ages is a prequel to doom 2016, so you dont really need to play eternal before it.

 

[Mikemetroid]

I'm not anticipating that the story demands I finish Eternal before playing Dark Ages but any thoughts on this? Should I finish Eternal before moving on to this?

no the story is irrelevant, this game is a prequel to 2016 and even then, its not really apparent its just "a story from those days"

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I'm on chapter 13, this game is pretty boring. Playing on the hardest difficulty unmodified isn't really engaging. Setting the speed up only makes the game feel more comical and its not really changing my issues with the game. Turret sections/forced on rail sections are for some reason here as well? I'd much rather play 2016...

I think this is gonna be a common issue with this game. I’m enjoying it a lot and find it engaging, I enjoy the flow of it better than eternal but I don’t think it’ll have the endless replay-ability.

 

[Juxtapose]

For the situation with Mick, it's absolutely a he-said-she-said kind of thing, and all we can do is speculate.

Simply drawing from my own experience with the entertainment industry, talent is usually husbanded and then even tolerated so long as it's bringing back profit. If there are delivery issues, or the person becomes an actual liability to work with, a studio cuts them off. That's why I do suspect it was actually Mick who was the issue. We'll likely never know for sure, though.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Ultimately all we can do is speculate but Marty seems pretty damn frustrating to deal with too. The new one really doesn’t hold a candle. It’s like the halo 4 sound track having to follow Marty O’Donnel.