Ed Boon: "Which four fighters do you feel need the most love in Mortal Kombat 1?"

[just_2swift]

buff Kung Lao

 

[Roy Arkon]

Explain how this would be broken Roy....

Making his regulsr Fire Ball his MB means he will be able to shut down all projectiles for free since MB Fire Ball destroys all other projectiles. Also making Air Fire Ball just one Ball means he can do instant Air Fire Balls. So not only your buffing jis Zoning but also making so you cannot counter Zone him in any way.

Also BF3 is one of his classic moves, not only taking it out is would be against his core design, but making into a 4-way guess stance???? LMAO That is beyond stupid.

And why the fuck give him a tight combo? Liu Kang is supposed to be a super easy use char, again that is part of his core design.

Liu Kang is already super versatile, got amazing staggers like you said, got amazing Zoning, easy throw combos depending on the Kameo, high damage and good ground mobility. He doesn't need making people guess and he doesn't to have his Zoning stronger let alone shut down all counter Zoning for free, and he surely does not need complicated moves. This is Mortal Kombat, not Tekken, and Liu Kang was always designed to be easy--to-use. These buffs suck.

 

[Juggs]

I still don’t understand why you keep saying this when Sonic is the only person to recently win a tournament with setplay.

Just about every playstyle has been represented in Top 8 in recent events.

I mean, at the risk of agreeing with @M2Dave, setplay has always been super strong in this game. That plus the lopsided risk/reward in this game have been a core part of the gameplay since launch tbh. It’s just frustrating when people deny it or act like it either doesn’t exist or isn’t that bad. The refusal to acknowledge it is a key reason it’s continually brought up I think

 

[just_2swift]

Making his regulsr Fire Ball his MB means he will be able to shut down all projectiles for free since MB Fire Ball destroys all other projectiles. Also making Air Fire Ball just one Ball means he can do instant Air Fire Balls. So not only your buffing jis Zoning but also making so you cannot counter Zone him in any way.

Also BF3 is one of his classic moves, not only taking it out is would be against his core design, but making into a 4-way guess stance???? LMAO That is beyond stupid.

And why the fuck give him a tight combo? Liu Kang is supposed to be a super easy use char, again that is part of his core design.

Liu Kang is already super versatile, got amazing staggers like you said, got amazing Zoning, easy throw combos depending on the Kameo, high damage and good ground mobility. He doesn't need making people guess and he doesn't to have his Zoning stronger let alone shut down all counter Zoning for free, and he surely does not need complicated moves. This is Mortal Kombat, not Tekken, and Liu Kang was always designed to be easy--to-use. These buffs suck.

This will age well because it shows you can't fucking read lmao. Carry on Roy. Carry on LOL.

 

[Roy Arkon]

And here go again. Someone gets goofed, can't make a proper debunk, and resort to one liners and insults.

What else is new?

 

[SaltShaker]

And before you bring up that "well look at the players, the majority of them choose Rushdown chars", that is only because the players choose to do out of their own choice, but that doesn't mean other chars are not viable.

I don't think this is accurate. It doesn't matter if they are viable or not. High level players choose the strongest characters that mesh well with their ability to win, and everyone's ability to win and ways to do so are different. Characters that aren't the strongest most often are picked less. If the majority of those same players are picking offense-heavy characters and winning with them more often then that is a strong indicator that the game is rewarding offensive play more for competition. Yes there will be a few that play against the meta in any game but the majority is always consistent when a rewarding play is in the game. This has always been the case for decades.

 

[just_2swift]

And here go again. Someone gets goofed, can't make a proper debunk, and resort to one liners and insults.

What else is new?

You didn't read anything I said properly so why debunk your stupidity?

I said make his current AIR fireball his ex version. Not his GROUND fireball to be and ex version without meter

 

[superbn0va]

Major buffs: Baraka, Peacemaker, Quan Chi, and Tanya.

Major buff Quan Chi?!

His special move that gives him temporary armor, idk the proper name of that move, is a very strong tool to have. You don’t want too much going on while having that imo.

Quan chi can be easily overpowered if not buffed correctly.

 

[Roy Arkon]

@just_2swift

Except it is still fucked up because you still want his air Ball to be one projectile which like I said it will allow Liu to make instant air Balls, and like I said Liu Kang does not need it as his Zoning is already strong including with EX ground Ball destorying projectlies. And not to mention all of the other stuff you mentioned that I clealy understood and you did not even try to debunk because once again you know I am right.

You basically want MK1 Liu Kang to be MKX Dragon's Fire Liu Kang. He is already powerful enough, he does not need any of that. Same for Kung Lao, this is not MKX and Lao does not need any of these buffs.

So instead of hanging on tiny mistakes just to justify your overall debunked argument and make absurd buffs, just go play MKX, and leave MK1 alone you clown.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

@just_2swift

Except it is still fucked up because you still want his air Ball to be one projectile which like I said it will allow Liu to make instant air Balls, and like I said Liu Kang does not need it as his Zoning is already strong including with EX ground Ball destorying projectlies. And not to mention all of the other stuff you mentioned that I clealy understood and you did not even try to debunk because once again you know I am right.

You basically want MK1 Liu Kang to be MKX Dragon's Fire Liu Kang. He is already powerful enoungh, he does not need any of that. Same for Kung Lao, this is not MKX and Lao does not need any of these buffs.

So instead of hanging on tiny mistakes just to justify your overall debunked argument and make absurd buffs, just go play MKX, and leave MK1 alone you clown.

He very clearly stated the wants the EX air fireball to be a single projectile, while making the current ex air fireballs become the new regular air fireballs. So basically you'd toss 3 "instant air fireballs" and you are completely empty of meter.

I'm not saying I agree with any of his buff suggestions (I didn't think about them enough to form a final opinion) but you are indeed misreading the post.

 

[PrinceGoro]

Major buff Quan Chi?!

His special move that gives him temporary armor, idk the proper name of that move, is a very strong tool to have. You don’t want too much going on while having that imo.

Quan chi can be easily overpowered if not buffed correctly.

At the very least, quan chi nees to have 50+ more hp and his db4EX should be 1 bar.

This two things would make a big differance in terms of both enjoyment to play and being higher on the tier list, the hp buff would allow also more kameo experimantation.

If i can only have these two changes id be happy, anything else is extra.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Ashrah is not a zoning character, as you falsely implied in previous posts, but I agree that she is a defensive character.

I did not say anything about Ashrah being a zoning character.

You are just making things up, old man.

 

[Roy Arkon]

He very clearly stated the wants the EX air fireball to be a single projectile, while making the current ex air fireballs become the new regular air fireballs. So basically you'd toss 3 "instant air fireballs" and you are completely empty of meter.

I'm not saying I agree with any of his buff suggestions (I didn't think about them enough to form a final opinion) but you are indeed misreading the post.

Here is the exact quote of what he said:

Also make his current air fire ball his MB and his meterless air fire ball a single projectile and adjust the hit reaction to be used in combos.

He doesn't want EX air Ball to be a single projectile, he wants the non-EX one to be a single projectile, while making the EX one the current non-EX one with multiple Fireballs.

That's not a misread pal.

 

[Roy Arkon]

I don't think this is accurate. It doesn't matter if they are viable or not. High level players choose the strongest characters that mesh well with their ability to win, and everyone's ability to win and ways to do so are different. Characters that aren't the strongest most often are picked less. If the majority of those same players are picking offense-heavy characters and winning with them more often then that is a strong indicator that the game is rewarding offensive play more for competition. Yes there will be a few that play against the meta in any game but the majority is always consistent when a rewarding play is in the game. This has always been the case for decades.

But then you once again ignoring my Reptile example. Back in MKX Reptile was also super strong from day 1, people just didn't use him because he didn't get the super obvious easy win trick, and even when people finally started to use Reptile more, they only thought Nimble Reptile was strong just because of the sauce and they still didn't use Reptile as much because of the execution curve, even though Noxious Reptile was just as strong and was way easier to use, but they didn't use him because he didn't have the cool, super obvious winning trick. I know that because Noxious Reptile was my main in MKX, and I studied all of Reptile's Variations from in and out.

And now in MK1, Reptile is also not used as much even though he's top 10 in MK1 and other pros have said also, but people don't use him as much just because unlike other chars, he doesn't have the visually cool, super obvious winning trick. Reptile one of the best mid-range, pace control and neutral playstyles in the whole game, and is arguably the most versatile when it comes to Kameo choices as it can alter his playstyle probably better than anyone on the roster. MK1 Reptile is arguably the epitome of what MK1 is about, but because people always looking for what is super obvious, they don't use him as much as he should be used.

So no, what the players choose in tournies is not an indicator of what the best playstyle is to use, it comes to what the game gives you overall. MKX was a super Rushdown game because that was what the game encouraged you to do on a fundamental level, not because which chars players used in top 8's. MK11 is a very defensive game for that same reason, and MK1, while more offense-based than Mk11, is nowhere near as offense-based as MKX or even MK9 were.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Here is the exact quote of what he said:



He doesn't want EX air Ball to be a single projectile, he wants the non-EX one to be a single projectile, while making the EX one the current non-EX one with multiple Fireballs.

That's not a misread pal.

Lol I stand corrected, ironically. My bad.

 

[Juggs]

So no, what the players choose in tournies is not an indicator of what the best playstyle is to use, it comes to what the game gives you overall. MKX was a super Rushdown game because that was what the game encouraged you to do on a fundamental level, not because which chars players used in top 8's. MK11 is a very defensive game for that same reason, and MK1, while more offense-based than Mk11, is nowhere near as offense-based as MKX or even MK9 were.

MK1 absolutely is as “offense based” as MKX, and is more so than MK9.

 

[NinesFGC]

make Kenshi balanced stance good, Ed plz

 

[Roy Arkon]

MK1 absolutely is as “offense based” as MKX, and is more so than MK9.

No it's not. The pace of MK1 is way slower than MK9 or MKX, also there is no universal close-gap mechanic like the Run mechanic, and as we have seen through all top 8's, there are multiple chars who are clearly not proper to Rushdown in any way no matter what Kameo you use, and it is way easier to Zone and play mid-range in MK1 than it ever was in MKX and even in MK9.

Now to be clear, there were games from other IP's that were even more Rushdown-oriented than MKX, such as MVC2, MVC3 and DBFZ, but compared to other MK games, MKX is the most Rushdown game ever. MK1 is not even close.

 

[Eldriken]

My question in all of this is: why does Roy think he knows better than everyone else on this forum that he engages with? He speaks in such absolutes.

When engaging with people, it's "No," "Nope," "Wrong," "Let me correct you," etc.

Who are you to be the end-all, be-all of decision making for any of this? It should be both criminal and a bannable offense on forums to be this vehemently and woefully ignorant.

 

[Roy Arkon]

My question in all of this is: why does Roy think he knows better than everyone else on this forum that he engages with? He speaks in such absolutes.

When engaging with people, it's "No," "Nope," "Wrong," "Let me correct you," etc.

Who are you to be the end-all, be-all of decision making for any of this? It should be both criminal and a bannable offense on forums to be this vehemently and woefully ignorant.

I never claimed I know better than everyone, it's only a you problem.

If you really are that mad about me correcting people on the site because I notice some false information in their comments, you can just put me on "ignore".

In fact I'm about to do it to you right now, just so you can see how simple it is.

Now moving on.

 

[Vulgar]

That’s not a legitimate nor a good reason to judge a character.

Tools, normals, mids, footsies, mixups, resets, zoning, bar/meter management etc. Should be considered when judging a characters tier.

And it that regard, except for zoning and footsies, Kung Lao is definitely lacking.

No reset, no meter-less launcher (except for his unsafe string), lacking a good mid, bad poke, no strings that end in an overhead/ low mixup (that can be followed up), nothing that starts with a low.. etc.

Dive-kick and a good projectile do not compensate for what he is lacking.

All these options should be considered when judging a character, especially when compared to other characters that have these options without being depended on kameos or bar. And there are many that are..



That’s what I’m saying, give Lao a good mid, meter-less launcher and something with his EX-projectiles. As of now, spending bar on his EX projectiles is a waste of bar.

When we talk about characters' viability in tournament, we're talking about them at the highest level of play.

Cale plays Kung Lao at the highest level.

So yeah, what Cale does with Lao matters more than your personal opinion and exactly 0 years of game design xp.

Also the idea that Kung Lao doesn't have mix, or that he doesn't have a good mid is just lol.

You are a clown.

Tldr: Get good. Skill issue.

Kung Lao is fine.

 

[Juggs]

No it's not. The pace of MK1 is way slower than MK9 or MKX, also there is no universal close-gap mechanic like the Run mechanic, and as we have seen through all top 8's, there are multiple chars who are clearly not proper to Rushdown in any way no matter what Kameo you use, and it is way easier to Zone and play mid-range in MK1 than it ever was in MKX and even in MK9.

Now to be clear, there were games from other IP's that were even more Rushdown-oriented than MKX, such as MVC2, MVC3 and DBFZ, but compared to other MK games, MKX is the most Rushdown game ever. MK1 is not even close.

Not sure you understand what “offense based” means because the pace being slower in MK1 compared to MK9 or X is irrelevant.

And yeah there’s no run button, again, irrelevant. Despite there not being a run button, there’s a ton of fck neutral moves and tools that lead to huge chunks of damage, guessing situations, and most can be made safe. Oh and dash blocking is back, although not as strong as it was in MK9. There’s no super powerful pure projectile zoners. There’s some that can projectile zone but it’s nothing like we have seen in previous games and you have to work so much harder with that playstyle comparatively speaking. The main characters that “slow the game down” are characters that are comboing or mixing you for 20 seconds straight, lol.

The offensive risk/reward is just insanely lopsided in MK1. Which was the same deal with MKX.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Not sure you understand what “offense based” means because the pace being slower in MK1 compared to MK9 or X is irrelevant.

And yeah there’s no run button, again, irrelevant. Despite there not being a run button, there’s a ton of fck neutral moves and tools that lead to huge chunks of damage, guessing situations, and most can be made safe. Oh and dash blocking is back, although not as strong as it was in MK9. There’s no super powerful pure projectile zoners. There’s some that can projectile zone but it’s nothing like we have seen in previous games and you have to work so much harder with that playstyle comparatively speaking. The main characters that “slow the game down” are characters that are comboing or mixing you for 20 seconds straight, lol.

The offensive risk/reward is just insanely lopsided in MK1. Which was the same deal with MKX.

No it is not irrelevant, not having a universal neutral skip or having the pace being slower are huge factors if the game is offense-based or not.

MKX forced you to work way harder for Zoning or any other playstyle that isn't Rushdown then MK1 does. Also like I said, MK1 actually has chars that are dedicated Zoners or Mid-Range chars, unlike MKX in which every char could've play Rushdown in some capacity, either 50/50's, pressure, staggers, you name it. Even if a char could've also play Zoning or Grappling it could've still play Rushdown, because the game encouraged you to play that playstyle.. MK1 doesn't have that, you don't see Ashrah, Kitana, Sektor, or Quan Chi play Rushdown. Even Reiko was changed more and more into a Grappler along the patches. And if there's a char that can play both Rushdown and other playstyles at the same time that is only because it is a freestyle char by their archetype, like Reptile, Liu Kang or Homelander, and not because the game overall forces you to play Rushdown. That's how it was in MK9, and that's how it is right now in MK1. In MKX, it was either a full-on Rushdown char, or a multi-archatype char that included Rushdown, but in MK9, MK11 and now MK1, you got different, full-on separated archetypes. That's the difference.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I mean, at the risk of agreeing with @M2Dave, setplay has always been super strong in this game. That plus the lopsided risk/reward in this game have been a core part of the gameplay since launch tbh. It’s just frustrating when people deny it or act like it either doesn’t exist or isn’t that bad. The refusal to acknowledge it is a key reason it’s continually brought up I think

Setplay exists, but for the majority of the cast it is nowhere near as strong as it is in many other games (including NRS' own games, like IGAU).

If we go hit by hit in tournaments with top players, and actually track what opens them up, 70% of the damage will be from whiff punishes/shimmies, normal mix, throws in neutral, microducks, etc. Maybe 20% or less from true setplay.

There are obviously exceptions (like Cyrax, who is based around setplay), but overall the level of crying from specific people is disproportional to how people are actually losing matches.

 

[Vulgar]

Even though that Crimson is once again right in general, I do have to correct you both on something. As I said earlier, only some MK games were offense-foucsed. Original MK1, MK2, MKDA, MKD, MKA and MK11 are all defense-based games. Only MK3, MK Vs. DC and MKX are all offense-based games. MK4, MK9 and current MK1 are in the middle. And it's not just the overall pace of each game, but the playstyles also. MKX clearly had Rushdown and setplay being the best possible strategies, but in games like MK11 it wasn't the case at all.

And as for MK1, no @M2Dave, you are wrong, non-Rushdown chars are NOT clearly outclassed by Rushdown chars. All kinds of playstyles are very equally presented and successful in MK1.

And before you bring up that "well look at the players, the majority of them choose Rushdown chars", that is only because the players choose to do out of their own choice, but that doesn't mean other chars are not viable. As I said before, Reptile is top 10 in MK1, other pros like Sonic and F0xy have said themselves also that Reptile is strong. It's just that people don't wanna pick him up just because of their own misconception of Reptile not being viable due to him not having a super obvious, easy-to-use strategy, just like that in MKX people didn't Reptile even though he was top tier also from the start for those exact same reasons.

The truth, a lot of players, and including pros, are a bunch of sheep, they would go with that is popular and not necessarily with that is good or not. MK1 is a super-well balanced game, both in between chars and playstyles, it's just false perception of the players that make things look a certain way, just like your false perception Dave.

Totally equally represented.

Dedicated zoners Peacemaker and Quan Chi was all over the Pro Komp Top 8 this past weekend.

You are very smart, Travis.