Tekken 8 Post-Release Discussion Thread

[SaltShaker]

I personally think all this power level talk is anime brain rot.

No one enjoyed being looped by Cyrax.

No one had fun micro duck-dashing Kabal Instant Air Gas Blasts.

Having strong characters is good.

Having characters so strong that the game is no longer fun or interactive is not.

Lol yeah the way I see it is like there's nothing wrong with high power levels, sometimes it's even preferable, but when they start to negatively impact gameplay it's problematic. Usually it should open up the game, but in Tekken's case it is limiting the game and actually gives less gameplay options than you used to have. MK1 increasing power levels is the way to do it right within the system. Fatal Fury is currently super duper offensively powerful but the defensive options are also so strong no one is complaining that it's too powerful. Etc.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

probably because he was a competitive MK player who had to trudge through some of the slow gameplay of MK11 and early MK1, m2dave looks at tekken 8 like a kid who wasn't allowed sugary snacks looking at a fat kids stash of snacks. Once he eats all the halloween candy he's going to eventually get sick and come around to your point @Vulgar
also hurt people hurt people, so he probably thinks Tekken players are ungrateful because he's traumatized by the downsides of playing NRS games.

 

[M2Dave]

Surely, there's a threshold for how high we want our "power levels" to be, no?

Of course.

I concede that the conversation is obviously more subtle than simply omega-buffing every character. As you mentioned in your subsequent post, fun and interactivity are also important factors.

However, I do not subscribe to this notion that Tekken 8 is this highly volatile fighting game to the extent that "rookies" can beat "veterans", to borrow Knee's words.

After Tekken 7, the meta had to evolve in an offensive direction.

I have said the same thing about Injustice 2, but not about Mortal Kombat 1, which is dominated by vortexes as well as hard-to-blockable set ups.

I would like to believe that my position on this matter is nuanced.

Edit: The "emergency patch" is now available for download.

Heat engagers have gone from +17 to +9 on hit.

LOL

Nothing but nerfs to appease the mob.

Boring!

 

[SaltShaker]

Of course.

I concede that the conversation is obviously more subtle than simply omega-buffing every character. As you mentioned in your subsequent post, fun and interactivity are also important factors.

However, I do not subscribe to this notion that Tekken 8 is this highly volatile fighting game to the extent that "rookies" can beat "veterans", to borrow Knee's words.

After Tekken 7, the meta had to evolve in an offensive direction.

I have said the same thing about Injustice 2, but not about Mortal Kombat 1, which is dominated by vortexes as well as hard-to-blockable set ups.

I would like to believe that my position on this matter is nuanced.

Edit: The "emergency patch" is now available for download.

Heat engagers have gone from +17 to +9 on hit.

LOL

Nothing but nerfs to appease the mob.

Boring!

It's fortunate that all the lead directors are openly taking responsibility and even saying things like "do our utmost to regain your trust" and "working with full commitment to resolve these problems and deliver a better gameplay experience". Good to know they understand that not only was the product incredibly subpar, but their insane 180 communication destroyed trust.

I'm one on-track May patch away from jumping back in. The best thing to come of all this is that due to their reflection and self-awareness, the May patch may bring out by far the best version of Tekken 8 that everyone has been waiting for.

 

[M2Dave]

I'm one on-track May patch away from jumping back in. The best thing to come of all this is that due to their reflection and self-awareness, the May patch may bring out by far the best version of Tekken 8 that everyone has been waiting for.

Well, I hope that you are gravely mistaken. LOL.

I do not want another patch that consists of 100% nerfs.

I labbed this "emergency patch" for like two minutes. There is nothing to do.

After season two, I expected to play Mortal Kombat 1 very little, yet here I am in Kombat League enjoying Kung Lao/Sektor.

If the angry mob ruins a fighting game with nerfs, please let it be one at least.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

I'm one on-track May patch away from jumping back in. The best thing to come of all this is that due to their reflection and self-awareness, the May patch may bring out by far the best version of Tekken 8 that everyone has been waiting for.

I co-sign this! I think it’s clear from the people I’ve talked to, and commentary from phidx, or max or Joka, this is just a little tuning. Maybe they were worried it would be an All Jack 8 top 8 at Evo Japan haha. Even May is just probably the next step. Hopefully they keep intelligently working on this to bring back counter play and shorter combos.

it’s pretty funny to read Michael Murray’s most recent apologetic tweets after he was blocking (and launching) people for the better part of last week.
I’m signed up for this at combo breaker so I’ve been going crazy grinding. Add me if anyone wants to play:
My Tekken id: 564N-eBAJ-F9DN
“Wutdoeyedo” is my player name

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

I do not want another patch that consists of 100% nerfs.

They are hopefully going to be thoughtful about it. They said “gradual adjustment” to “overly rewarding moves.” I’m interpreting this as moves that are homing and also low or high crush and heat engage etc etc some of those moves with three or four tags like that… but time will tell.

If you enjoyed season 2 vanilla, I believe you will continue to enjoy this game.

 

[Vulgar]

Well, I hope that you are gravely mistaken. LOL.

I do not want another patch that consists of 100% nerfs.

I labbed this "emergency patch" for like two minutes. There is nothing to do.

After season two, I expected to play Mortal Kombat 1 very little, yet here I am in Kombat League enjoying Kung Lao/Sektor.

If the angry mob ruins a fighting game with nerfs, please let it be one at least.

Two minutes is all it takes to figure out a whole patch and have an informed opinion, apparently.

Such insight.

 

[M2Dave]

Two minutes is all it takes to figure out a whole patch and have an informed opinion, apparently.

I am not claiming that I have an "informed opinion" about the game's future meta.

What I am claiming is that there is nothing interesting to explore.

So, Lars' LE 1 has gone from +26 to +4 on hit.

I already know what my options are because this change is a reversion.

The fact that heat engagers are +9 on hit instead of +17 removes lots of jailing WR pressure.

If Namco is going to continue nerfing heat and chip damage, what was the point of implementing this system in the first place?

If I wanted to play Tekken 7, I would.

This patch sucks.

All you of you ought to be apologizing to Harada and Murray for making this game more boring.

 

[Vulgar]

I am not claiming that I have an "informed opinion" about the game's future meta.

What I am claiming is that there is nothing interesting to explore.

So, Lars' LE 1 has gone from +26 to +4 on hit.

I already know what my options are because this change is a reversion.

The fact that heat engagers are +9 on hit instead of +17 removes lots of jailing WR pressure.

If Namco is going to continue nerfing heat and chip damage, what was the point of implementing this system in the first place?

If I wanted to play Tekken 7, I would.

This patch sucks.

All you of you ought to be apologizing to Harada and Murray for making this game more boring.

The patch hasn't even been live for a full day.

Chill the fuck out, holy shit.

 

[PrinceGoro]

Characters did receive lots of new moves in Tekken 7, but the power levels toward the very end of Tekken 7's lifespan were very low.

Too many characters were over-nerfed (i.e., Devil Jin, Dragunov, Fahkumram, Leroy, Lidia, etc.) while others were given inconsequential buffs (i.e., Armor King, Eddy, Gigas, Lars, Leo, etc.)

Because Namco continued buffing defense and nerfing offense, characters who retained counter-hit launchers (i.e., Bryan, Katarina, Kunimitsu, Noctis, Steve, etc.) suddenly became top tier.

Matches were boring and noninteractive.

Even those of you who ejaculate to the thought of nerfs, I will requote PhiDX... "horror... ugly... perfect defensive gameplan... I am just going to back dash the entire time..."



"Nowadays when people don't like something, they go on Twitter and complain, or they boycott the game, or whatever. Back then we had to adapt. Either you adapted or people called you a scrub..."

Presently, people worship you for demanding nerfs, as you are acknowledged with an ejaculatory standing ovation.



Yes, but I am first and foremost promoting high power levels in fighting games.

And unlike Tom who now flees from this talking point because of Tekken 8's temporary unpopularity...

I firmly stand by what I have always believed.

Thats understandable but again i think the tekken community, in particular, high level and tournament players have more so an issue with how the system changes,heat and season 2 changes with new homing plus on block heat engager/ launcher attacks affect tekken fundementals and core philosophy of gameplay as a 3d fighter.

The individual character power levels though affected by the emergancy patch and future patches, should still remain rather high.
i think the feedback by the community is to have a less of a streamlined auto offense fueled by heat, with more opportunity for counter play. And if that is done i think it would not make all characters be weak all of a sudden.

 

[SaltShaker]

I co-sign this! I think it’s clear from the people I’ve talked to, and commentary from phidx, or max or Joka, this is just a little tuning. Maybe they were worried it would be an All Jack 8 top 8 at Evo Japan haha. Even May is just probably the next step. Hopefully they keep intelligently working on this to bring back counter play and shorter combos.

it’s pretty funny to read Michael Murray’s most recent apologetic tweets after he was blocking (and launching) people for the better part of last week.
I’m signed up for this at combo breaker so I’ve been going crazy grinding. Add me if anyone wants to play:
My Tekken id: 564N-eBAJ-F9DN
“Wutdoeyedo” is my player name

Good luck at Combo Breaker! And yea if you read Nakatsu and Harada Twitter posts/apologies, and compare it to Murray, it's soooo night and day. I have said from Day 1 Murray is a real problem. He took over right before we started getting the Leroy season and the Fahkumram season, he doesn't know what he's doing but is besties with Harada so he's safe. Dude is so full of himself that if you dare even question like " I love this game but I'm confused why did they buff the #1 overall character in the game?" he'll block you and say everyone is toxic. He's a huge problem that wrote his apology as if a gun was to his head.

The fact that heat engagers are +9 on hit instead of +17 removes lots of jailing WR pressure.

Yes, that is exactly why it's a step in the right direction. Pushing one button to get automatic jailed 50/50s that can sometimes lead to game-ending setplay or non-stop pressure so long I can eat dinner and comeback needed to go. Like the Rodney King riots, sometimes people rioting in unison can change the world for the better.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

it’s mainly that WR moves can be sidestepped which is good if you have the read. Just means if you play someone like Claudio you shouldn’t autopilot WR from every heat engage you get, you have to mix it up. To me, that’s very Tekken

 

[Amplified$hotz]

This is a good video that basically covers the tension between the tekken devs and the community.

In short, Tekken has always been known as a defensive game. The problem is that defense is the hardest part of Tekken. Teching throws, reacting to slow lows, learning strings, block punishment of hundreds of moves deters 95% of people from sticking with the game. But games need players.

The uploader argues that Namco is reducing the barrier of entry by reducing the importance of knowledge checks/defense as a barrier of entry into the game. And turbo buffing offense so that you don’t need it to be competitive.

The problem though, is that turbo buffing offense just creates more knowledge checks or uninteractive situations.

 

[LEGEND]

No one enjoyed being looped by Cyrax.

No one had fun micro duck-dashing Kabal Instant Air Gas Blasts.

MK9 mentioned so I must. . .

Cyrax was always cancer. But chasing down Kabal was never a problem and was indeed fun. Kabal is broken due to pressure (block infinite), flash parry, meter build and safe options

 

[Immortal]

Season 2 was probably the worst patch in history of Tekken if not whole fighting games history lol. Casino 50/50 simulator in full swing, like MK X just on steroids. Nakatsu and Harada apologizing was the only reasonable thing they could've done. Almost nobody liked the S2 changes and the messaging before the release of S2 patch was missleading at best but more in line of stright up lie.

The idea that in a 3D game you're playing 2D coz stepping is useless(everything tracks) and with billions of moves that leave you at plus frames which in turn makes the game a pure 50/50 casino is probably the worst i've ever seen...

Now, todays patch is a step in the right direction and i expect them to nerf like a shit ton of characters in the mid-May patch at which point im planing to return to Tekken 8 and enjoy myself.

 

[M2Dave]

Just means if you play someone like Claudio you shouldn’t autopilot WR from every heat engage you get, you have to mix it up. To me, that’s very Tekken

Claudio has never been able to "autopilot" running moves every after heat engagers because WR+2 hits high (and chips but can be crouched) while WR+4 hits mid (but is negative on block and does not chip). Ironically this mind game still exists because WR+2 and WR+4 have 13F and 15F of startup, respectively. Consequently, they remain uninterruptible and unsidesteppable after heat engagers.

I am disposed to tolerate this patch as long as you whiners stop begging Namco for more nerfs. If Tekken 8 receives another bucket of nerfs, this game will not be worth playing.

 

[Vulgar]

MK9 mentioned so I must. . .

Cyrax was always cancer. But chasing down Kabal was never a problem and was indeed fun. Kabal is broken due to pressure (block infinite), flash parry, meter build and safe options

Calling it, "fun" pretty subjective.

It was both, if this is a serious conversation. Otherwise, no one would ever talk about the zoning.

Kabal was broken because he had no losing match ups, could completely change his gameplan depending on the match up, and forced just about every character in the game to play at his pace.

Yes, his pressure was broken. But so was his zoning.

There's a reason Rooftop Day was a meme in the community.

Let's not downplay in 2025.

 

[SaltShaker]

Season 2 was probably the worst patch in history of Tekken if not whole fighting games history lol. Casino 50/50 simulator in full swing, like MK X just on steroids. Nakatsu and Harada apologizing was the only reasonable thing they could've done. Almost nobody liked the S2 changes and the messaging before the release of S2 patch was missleading at best but more in line of stright up lie.

The idea that in a 3D game you're playing 2D coz stepping is useless(everything tracks) and with billions of moves that leave you at plus frames which in turn makes the game a pure 50/50 casino is probably the worst i've ever seen...

Now, todays patch is a step in the right direction and i expect them to nerf like a shit ton of characters in the mid-May patch at which point im planing to return to Tekken 8 and enjoy myself.

The S2 patch was so bad it literally brought Immortal out of posting retirement. Contemplate just how bad this patch must have been.

 

[LEGEND]

Calling it, "fun" pretty subjective.

It was both, if this is a serious conversation. Otherwise, no one would ever talk about the zoning.

Kabal was broken because he had no losing match ups, could completely change his gameplan depending on the match up, and forced just about every character in the game to play at his pace.

Yes, his pressure was broken. But so was his zoning.

There's a reason Rooftop Day was a meme in the community.

Let's not downplay in 2025.

Not to derail any further, but Kabal isn't winning any matches off zoning. It's nowhere near the level of the things I listed, and more. His zoning is useful, but imo probably not in the top 5 reasons why he's good.

Obviously yeah, fun is subjective. Somewhere along the years more and more people stopped being able to mentally handle zoning which sucks. And considering the NRS community is casual up to the top competitive players, of course zoning is always a meme/complained about. No Matter how effective it is at a high level.

 

[Immortal]

The S2 patch was so bad it literally brought Immortal out of posting retirement. Contemplate just how bad this patch must have been.

That's actually true. Like i remember reading patch notes for S2, drinking my morning coffee and like 3 lines into it my first thought was "are they f.... insane? They just double down on stupidity... defense patch my ass."

 

[Vulgar]

Not to derail any further, but Kabal isn't winning any matches off zoning. It's nowhere near the level of the things I listed, and more. His zoning is useful, but imo probably not in the top 5 reasons why he's good.

Obviously yeah, fun is subjective. Somewhere along the years more and more people stopped being able to mentally handle zoning which sucks. And considering the NRS community is casual up to the top competitive players, of course zoning is always a meme/complained about. No Matter how effective it is at a high level.

Are you kidding me? He made half the cast irrelevant just off the zoning alone. Add to that the fact that some characters simply could not poke out of his pressure, and you have a character that is good at everything.

Which is what made Kabal the best: He was good at everything.

I think we're miscommunicating here.

I'm not saying he was top tier strictly because of the zoning. I'm saying his pushdown AND his zoning put him head and shoulders above the rest. This was an extremely common talking point back in MK9's heyday. I'm 90% positive I could dig up old episodes of KTP with top players then talking about it.

 

[Juggs]

Are you kidding me? He made half the cast irrelevant just off the zoning alone. Add to that the fact that some characters simply could not poke out of his pressure, and you have a character that is good at everything.

Which is what made Kabal the best: He was good at everything.

I think we're miscommunicating here.

I'm not saying he was top tier strictly because of the zoning. I'm saying his pushdown AND his zoning put him head and shoulders above the rest. This was an extremely common talking point back in MK9's heyday. I'm 90% positive I could dig up old episodes of KTP with top players then talking about it.

Yeah, Kabal’s zoning in MK9 was extremely good. His zoning is one of the reasons he could completely dictate the pace of the match. Sure, he’s not going to only be chucking his iaFB’s and ground saw, but trying to find ways around those were hard enough. Then you had to worry about all of his other tools, which in turn made his zoning even stronger.

He definitely was a top 3 zoner in MK9 imo @LEGEND

 

[Roy Arkon]

That's actually true. Like i remember reading patch notes for S2, drinking my morning coffee and like 3 lines into it my first thought was "are they f.... insane? They just double down on stupidity... defense patch my ass."

At least you didn't spit out your coffee....

















....or did you?

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

Claudio has never been able to "autopilot" running moves every after heat engagers because WR+2 hits high…

I did some due diligence Dave because I play yoshimitsu, who admittedly has a weak step, he can do his evasive spin move to get away from Claudio’s while running 2 after heat engager, but if he tries to step it he gets clipped. Lilly on the other hand can eat the whole 212 heat engager and still have time to side step all the way around Claudio’s follow up WR2.
so it is steppable by certain characters (or command evaded in the case of yoshi).

I also tried stepping some characters’ while standing moves (also called while rising) used as a follow up after heat engager and it works, in certain cases. I’m gonna experiment in casual matches. I wish I played someone with a good step like Lilly, it’s eye opening to lab this stuff with her.