Khaos Reigns Story Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Kiss the Missile]

But it's not a redemption arc. Geras has been programmed to be a different person in this timeline. It's not the same dude going through some arc. It's essentially a robot that's been given new programming. It's similar to people saying Mileena 'got a redemption arc'...but it's a totally different person in all the ways that matter.

It is the same dude tho. No matter how many times you restart a timeline, Geras is a fixed point in time. Liu Kang's timeline is the original timeline, aka the MK11 timeline. That's the same Geras that was in MK11. And even in MK11, Geras was sick of Kronika endlessly restarting time and putting Geras out there to try and fix the unfixable. Liu Kang let Geras rest, which is all Geras ever wanted.

 

[SaltShaker]

Remember when you all complained about GOAT Cassie Legend Cage defeating Shinnok, talking about "bad story, Kombat Kids bad" when they perfectly crafted the story to lead to that moment and position her as the new guardian. Remember that?

Well you didn't want it. So now this is your punishment. When you are about to type something disgruntled about the Khaos Reign story, stop, and remember, it was you who asked for this.

 

[Juxtapose]

I just finished Story Mode this morning. I went in expecting a modern summer blockbuster style of story and generally that's what I got, so I had fun with it even though I would not call it "good." I'm not a fan of multiverse stuff like many of you, so the obvious continuation of such was a downer but expected. I have no issue with the New Era concept in general and with things being different here, but multiple timelines just muddles things up.

The part that really irked me though is Titan Havik. You all know my strong dislike of the 3D era and it's characters, but to elaborate further on what @Art Lean and @pure.Wasted said: Titan Havik has nothing to do with chaos and anarchy.

Chaos is defined as things being unpredictable and random, anarchy is defined as no government or structure. Media oft portrays these concepts in extreme means of violence, carnage, and destruction (which is not technically wrong) but they still go along with actual chaos and anarchy.

Titan Havik is organized, has a plan he's been executing multiple times over multiple timelines, has henchmen, security, priests (and what appears to be organized religion and worship) and is looking to impose his order on every other timeline. He's also insanely predictable. His henchmen are the same characters that were originally in his timeline, still Kenshi, Shao, Kitana, etc., except they're all dressed like punks from the early '80's. That's not chaos, that's violence and a nostalgia trip back to the early scene with Bill Paxton and his crew at the beginning of The Terminator.

Titan Havik is an embodiment of destruction and violence, not chaos and anarchy. He's a jobber who's been empowered and trying to act like Shao Kahn, complete with a blood sport coliseum, except he's crappier at it.

My fav part of the story was Noob calling Havik a hypocrite, but it extends further then the story even meant. As I recall, 3D era Havik embodies actual chaos and anarchy, and this Titan Havik is supposed to be him.

I do hope they leave the multiple timeline stuff behind and go back to a single, cohesive story, though for this game, I know that won't happen.

@Kiss the Missile for Ermac in Mortal Kombat X, it was a very heavy box, obviously. Like trying to lift an X-Wing. Do or do not.

For Geras, his Tower Ending with Mortal Kombat 11 is not canon. He does indeed have a solid character arc though.

 

[PrinceGoro]

Remember when you all complained about GOAT Cassie Legend Cage defeating Shinnok, talking about "bad story, Kombat Kids bad" when they perfectly crafted the story to lead to that moment and position her as the new guardian. Remember that?

Well you didn't want it. So now this is your punishment. When you are about to type something disgruntled about the Khaos Reign story, stop, and remember, it was you who asked for this.

You cant pin this on the people brother cmon.
This story may have included cooler charcaters then kombat kids,which is what people wanted yes.But the execution of the story the writing,the dialogue,the stakes,belivability,feeling mk etc etc etc is utter trash and has no connection to people disliking cassie cage.

They actually learned nothing from thw travesty that was mkx and mk11 and dominic managed to creat something even worse while at the same time involving some of the coolest charcaters in the franchise,jesus christ thats an acomplisment.

If you would have told me there was going to be a story expansion focusing on noob cyrax sektor,rain and tanya with havik as the big bad threat to all thr realms,i would say holy shit thats about to be the most awsome experiance ever.

Boy did Dom prove me wrong.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Remember when you all complained about GOAT Cassie Legend Cage defeating Shinnok, talking about "bad story, Kombat Kids bad" when they perfectly crafted the story to lead to that moment and position her as the new guardian. Remember that?

Well you didn't want it. So now this is your punishment. When you are about to type something disgruntled about the Khaos Reign story, stop, and remember, it was you who asked for this.

I agree somewhat. Cassie beating Shinnok was a little dumb imo but they absolutely did set it up and did the work as much as could be expected. Johnny did the same thing and their family were bred to fight gods over the centuries. MK9’s MK2 Kitana beating Shao Kahn in MK11 (what a sentence) was much worse, but this is MUCH worse. I’m a huge SZ fan, so Bi Han dumpstering titan Havik made me a little happy but it’s a million times more insane than either of those other two fights.

 

[Juxtapose]

MK9’s MK2 Kitana beating Shao Kahn in MK11 (what a sentence) was much worse,

Of the original trilogy, this was the only fight I found unbelievable at first, until I realized/had someone else point out that the concept here is Kitana always lacked confidence and belief in herself, but once that self doubt was put aside, she hit her stride and was able to do great things.

And she did. She united Outworld in days, something both Shao, Mileena, and Kotal had never been able to do. She defeated Shao (though he had fought in other fights at that point and also wasn't in top form), and was a solid, if short ruling, empress.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Of the original trilogy, this was the only fight I found unbelievable at first, until I realized/had someone else point out that the concept here is Kitana always lacked confidence and belief in herself, but once that self doubt was put aside, she hit her stride and was able to do great things.

And she did. She united Outworld in days, something both Shao, Mileena, and Kotal had never been able to do. She defeated Shao (though he had fought in other fights at that point and also wasn't in top form), and was a solid, if short ruling, empress.

She was a 10,000 year old, bad mother fucker, killed countless people surely with incalculable combat experience, I just don’t buy that she could come to a revelation in days and suddenly be able to beat Shao through her “confidence”. Then Liu Kang says some dumb shit like “of course she can” as if he didn’t absolutely toy with her weeks ago with ease in canon the MK1 portion of the game. Can Sonya beat Shao if she got confident enough? She beat Kitana and Jade back to back. I do like the idea of Empress Kitana and like I said, it’s nothing compared to Noob vs titan Havik.

 

[Juxtapose]

She was a 10,000 year old, bad mother fucker, killed countless people surely with incalculable combat experience, I just don’t buy that she could come to a revelation in days and suddenly be able to beat Shao through her “confidence”.

And yet she spent much of her life afraid of her "father." Fear is a powerful thing, and something powers-that-be have used to keep people inline for long, long before we were born. She got confident enough and shed that fear. It made a difference.

She beat Kitana and Jade back to back.

And if Jade's intro with Sonya is to be believed, they let Sonya win that fight.

 

[ItsOri]

Ooof I want my money back.

Video game stories and especially fighting game stories generally are pretty terrible but WOW this was terrible.

 

[KillerKombatX]

I think my biggest problem with the story was that unlike Aftermath that was completely focused on the dlc characters with the base roster characters being background for the most part, which made it feel fresh.
Khaos reigns not only doesn't use three of the dlc characters(quan,ermac and takeda), for some reason two base roster characters get a chapter and they aren't even the base roster version of themselves

 

[YagamiFire]

It is the same dude tho. No matter how many times you restart a timeline, Geras is a fixed point in time.

Claiming something in the narrative and demonstrating it to be true are two different things. NRS repeatedly fails to reinforce its own narrative claims and, in fact, often displays the total opposite in the narrative.

Geras being a 'fixed point in time' is a perfect example. For one...what does that even mean? Nothing. A person cannot be a POINT in time especially not Geras since he exists through time. That is a line. Not a point. The claim makes no sense. We also see multiple Geras in multiple timelines and they are separate, distinct beings. This means he cannot be a point since he exists in multiple times with different personalities and events surrounding him.

If he was the same Geras in every timeline, this would actually mean that the Geras in Havik's timeline is equally as much "Geras" as the Liu Kang Geras...which means it makes no sense that Havik needs the New Era Geras' time crystals.

It's almost like NRS just says shit and none of it actually stands up to the barest of scrutiny...even their own.

Liu Kang's timeline is the original timeline, aka the MK11 timeline. That's the same Geras that was in MK11. And even in MK11, Geras was sick of Kronika endlessly restarting time and putting Geras out there to try and fix the unfixable. Liu Kang let Geras rest, which is all Geras ever wanted.

"Liu Kang's timeline is the original timeline"

By definition, it's not. It's a splinter timeline created by Raiden's actions. This is explicit in MK11. Now, in MK1, we learn that it is, in fact, not the core timeline...because there can't be one. The Shang Tsung timeline is just as valid as Liu Kang's New Era timeline. Neither is 'the original timeline' because that timeline fractured into infinite other timelines. None are original. All are derivatives of the timeline that fought Kronika with infinite outcomes for who gets the hourglass and what they do. There is nothing that makes Kang's 'more original'...and it's because of how NRS themselves wrote the narrative and explained the events. Oh we can act like it's the original and NRS can even claim it...but if George Lucas comes out and says "Actually in Episode 4, Luke didn't leave Tattooine."...it wouldn't matter. That would be explicitly untrue based on the narrative itself.

Every other Geras in every other timeline is also "the Geras that was in MK11". If their Titan of Time chose to have them keep those memories, then that Geras would remember going through all the same stuff...and it could be no other way...how else could you explain Geras even being in their timeline? Everything diverges from the MK11 ending. Everything.

This is the problem with multiverse stories being written by people that don't understand what they're doing. Hell, this is the problem with people writing stories that can't even follow the events of their own stories. They are stating things that are explicitly, provably wrong based on their own narrative.

Also none of this addresses that Liu Kang factually remade Geras' personality when he remade Geras. Again, this is explicit in the story and is openly stated.

"You created me in your own image. Duty is my highest calling"

It is inarguable fact that Liu Kang created this Geras AND changed his personality. Both acknowledge this. The game and its profiles acknowledge this. Geras is a robot that was reprogrammed. That is not an arc. It is a higher power changing someone.

 

[Vulgar]

Claiming something in the narrative and demonstrating it to be true are two different things. NRS repeatedly fails to reinforce its own narrative claims and, in fact, often displays the total opposite in the narrative.

Geras being a 'fixed point in time' is a perfect example. For one...what does that even mean? Nothing. A person cannot be a POINT in time especially not Geras since he exists through time. That is a line. Not a point. The claim makes no sense. We also see multiple Geras in multiple timelines and they are separate, distinct beings. This means he cannot be a point since he exists in multiple times with different personalities and events surrounding him.

If he was the same Geras in every timeline, this would actually mean that the Geras in Havik's timeline is equally as much "Geras" as the Liu Kang Geras...which means it makes no sense that Havik needs the New Era Geras' time crystals.

It's almost like NRS just says shit and none of it actually stands up to the barest of scrutiny...even their own.



"Liu Kang's timeline is the original timeline"

By definition, it's not. It's a splinter timeline created by Raiden's actions. This is explicit in MK11. Now, in MK1, we learn that it is, in fact, not the core timeline...because there can't be one. The Shang Tsung timeline is just as valid as Liu Kang's New Era timeline. Neither is 'the original timeline' because that timeline fractured into infinite other timelines. None are original. All are derivatives of the timeline that fought Kronika with infinite outcomes for who gets the hourglass and what they do. There is nothing that makes Kang's 'more original'...and it's because of how NRS themselves wrote the narrative and explained the events. Oh we can act like it's the original and NRS can even claim it...but if George Lucas comes out and says "Actually in Episode 4, Luke didn't leave Tattooine."...it wouldn't matter. That would be explicitly untrue based on the narrative itself.

Every other Geras in every other timeline is also "the Geras that was in MK11". If their Titan of Time chose to have them keep those memories, then that Geras would remember going through all the same stuff...and it could be no other way...how else could you explain Geras even being in their timeline? Everything diverges from the MK11 ending. Everything.

This is the problem with multiverse stories being written by people that don't understand what they're doing. Hell, this is the problem with people writing stories that can't even follow the events of their own stories. They are stating things that are explicitly, provably wrong based on their own narrative.

Also none of this addresses that Liu Kang factually remade Geras' personality when he remade Geras. Again, this is explicit in the story and is openly stated.

"You created me in your own image. Duty is my highest calling"

It is inarguable fact that Liu Kang created this Geras AND changed his personality. Both acknowledge this. The game and its profiles acknowledge this. Geras is a robot that was reprogrammed. That is not an arc. It is a higher power changing someone.

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRDDDDDDDD

 

[Dankster Morgan]

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRDDDDDDDD

Got some bad news for you bro

 

[Vulgar]

Got some bad news for you bro

Yeah. Yeah. I know. :-(

 

[YagamiFire]

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRDDDDDDDD

 

[pure.Wasted]

This is the problem with multiverse stories being written by people that don't understand what they're doing. Hell, this is the problem with people writing stories that can't even follow the events of their own stories. They are stating things that are explicitly, provably wrong based on their own narrative.

Great post. It's such a mess. It started in mk11 with the contradictory time travel rules, where Sonya's punches and kicks vs past Kano were somehow magically affecting present Kano, while in lots of other scenes young characters took damage without affecting their old selves in any way. Old Liu Kang actually drained young Liu Kang almost completely, and seemed to get STRONGER as a result. Hello? Consistency? Does the past version getting hurt matter or not? (It shouldn't but that's a separate problem.)

But from there it just got worse and worse.

And what still really bothers me is... MK11 presents Liu Kang vs Shang Tsung as the point of divergence that created all the branches. But then MK1 clearly shows that that can't be the case, because in other timelines, other characters became Titans by defeating Kronika. There were no other characters in that room with Liu Kang and Shang. So the point of divergence must have been before. But when? How? Why? So NRS wants us to believe that both things are simultaneously true, there was only one timeline that split in Aftermath, and there were always an infinity of timelines.

It's insulting. I'm used to not overthinking action stories but this is a whole extra level of stupid. It's like the viewer is being punished for remembering what happened 30 seconds ago.

 

[YagamiFire]

It's insulting. I'm used to not overthinking action stories but this is a whole extra level of stupid. It's like the viewer is being punished for remembering what happened 30 seconds ago.

The only thing canon in NRS stories is the current frame of animation being shown on screen. Everything else is mutable.

 

[Juxtapose]

By definition, it's not. It's a splinter timeline created by Raiden's actions. This is explicit in MK11.

Not at all. Until Mortal Kombat 1, time essentially functioned like a cassette or VHS tape: it could be "rewound" and "recorded" over. Kronika going on about Raiden's actions and such is simply her complaining about him messing up the balance she was trying to create.

It started in mk11 with the contradictory time travel rules, where Sonya's punches and kicks vs past Kano were somehow magically affecting present Kano, while in lots of other scenes young characters took damage without affecting their old selves in any way. Old Liu Kang actually drained young Liu Kang almost completely, and seemed to get STRONGER as a result.

From what I recall, it's generally damage that would lead to a scar or perma-damage that carried over to "older" versions of characters. Punch someone and they get a bruise and nothing happens long term. Cut someone and leave a scar, the scar appears on the older character. Punch someone hard in the gut and rupture something internally, older character now has a health condition.

It's a concept I've seen in other media roughly 20 or 30 years ago, nothing new, and how time travel is handled varies strongly from media to media and franchise to franchise.

Keep in mind, since time travel and such isn't real, no one knows how it works, because it doesn't exist. Whenever people argue about how time travel related shit "should work," they're simply clinging to a rendition of the fantasy that they prefer and trying to enforce it as reality, when what they like is just as fake and wonky as what they're arguing against.

For present Liu Kang draining pas Liu Kang's souls, souls aren't physical objects so I assume things worked differently.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Bi Han jumping into the portal like that. Bro you should know that is 24 frames, he was asking for it

This joke is better than 99% of the dialogue in this expansion.

I could write a better MK story than this, and I don't say that with any modicum of pride at all. The MK lore has been in freefall ever since the end of MK11 when Super Cassie and the homies were mowing down hordes of Oni and all suspension of disbelief with machine guns like they were melting through butter.

The lack of effort is disturbing.

 

[pure.Wasted]

From what I recall, it's generally damage that would lead to a scar or perma-damage that carried over to "older" versions of characters. Punch someone and they get a bruise and nothing happens long term. Cut someone and leave a scar, the scar appears on the older character. Punch someone hard in the gut and rupture something internally, older character now has a health condition.

That makes sense up to a point, but you lose me at "you punched him hard 30 years ago so he has a health condition." Which, I just rewatched the Sonya v Kano fight, apparently happens twice to him because twice he bowls over from young Kano getting smashed.

First of all what health condition could he have that would immediately fill him with such discomfort that he bowls over? Did she rupture multiple organs? Then he shouldn't be able to immediately get back up, which he does, grinning, like nothing happened.

Second, this is the MK universe, where even death isn't a permanent condition, and they want me to believe (just for this one scene) that Kano didn't get this mystery medical condition healed up in 20 years? Not with black dragon tech or contacts, or stolen Lin Kuei tech, not with Outworld healing he has access to? He just walked around with two missing kidneys or whatever for 30 years? It's just silly.

Keep in mind, since time travel and such isn't real, no one knows how it works, because it doesn't exist. Whenever people argue about how time travel related shit "should work," they're simply clinging to a rendition of the fantasy that they prefer and trying to enforce it as reality, when what they like is just as fake and wonky as what they're arguing against.

I can believe in time travel that affects the present self, absolutely. What I can't believe is time travel that affects the present self so conditionally. If what happens to the past self becomes real in the present self's past, then EVERYTHING matters, including the countless indirect butterfly effect consequences. The fact that mk2 Kano time traveled to Kotal's koliseum should alone completely alter his future self's trajectory, much more than a kick to the spleen ever could. Then he walks around, gets in fights, meets his future self, rebuilds the Tekunin, goes on adventures. Basically every second of that happening, present Kano should have been changing locations, personality, memories, appearance, everything, right before our eyes. Same goes for the other time travelers. You can't have your cake and eat it too, so only injuries matter. Either everything matters or nothing does.

For present Liu Kang draining pas Liu Kang's souls, souls aren't physical objects so I assume things worked differently.

It's not that this can't be part of a satisfying explanation, it's that I don't feel NRS has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the logic & internal consistency of their sci-fi concepts. Especially now that we've played mk1 which is a total disaster. I'm not inclined to assume things to bail them out. They have to earn my trust back. Easiest way to do that, just move on from this time travel and multiverse dreck. You can still do "invasions" without it, guys. That doesn't need a lore explanation.

 

[Juxtapose]

That makes sense up to a point, but you lose me at "you punched him hard 30 years ago so he has a health condition." Which, I just rewatched the Sonya v Kano fight, apparently happens twice to him because twice he bowls over from young Kano getting smashed.

Keep in mind, this isn't an exact science. It's a video game plot about a host of things that simply do not exist (i.e time travel). I'm giving a very general example by the gut punch/health condition thing. Could be an ulcer, could be lots of things. Could be nothing. Who the hell knows.

Again, I've seen the general concept in other media, it's not something NetherRealm invented here.

For Johnny, I recall present Johnny making a face when past Johnny got shot and in the face and that scar formed. Perhaps present Johnny felt it for a second.

Second, this is the MK universe, where even death isn't a permanent condition,

Correct, where people get stabbed, shot, blown up, etc. constantly. We have Gods, demons, monsters, other worlds, and a whole host of things that aren't real.

Don't mistake me, I'm not shitting on you, I get what you're looking for is more consistency, but you're overthinking it too much. They're clearly not trying to tell a realistic story where everything ties in nicely, so there's no point trying to rationalize anything. It reminds me of the quote I heard once where someone wondered how Bruce Wayne could maintain his double life and do all the stuff he does when he barely sleeps and constantly gets injured. The reason: he's not real. There's no reason to go through mental gymnastics to try and explain why fake person and do fake things well.

Most of the characters in Mortal Kombat's story modes would have been dead or washed out from stress/trauma long before Mortal Kombat 11 got started. That's the reality. Jax, for example, would have had PTSD from the lose of his arms, it wouldn't have taken being a Revenant to do it.

Easiest way to do that, just move on from this time travel and multiverse dreck.

I would love for the multiverse stuff to be put to rest for good. Give me a simple, dark and gritty storyline that doesn't have universe altering stacks at play.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

With the first half of the MK1 story mode and the better parts of this DLC, they really should have made Bi Han the main villain of the game.

Liu having spent so much energy trying to set people like Bi Han, Shao, and Mileena up for success by making their circumstances more conducive to them being decent just to have it flip anyways would be way more interesting than what we got. Like Bi Han gets his brother as Scorpion instead of Hanzo, Sektor as a girlfriend / companion, etc but still goes down the wrong path. Liu should feel TERRIBLE about Bi Han being Noob again, which this DLC does a bit of.

Not just from him being him but Liu Kang’s arrogance. A lot of the changes Liu made to the timeline seem pretty insulting to his old friends. The old Kuai Liang Sub was such a reliable and strong ally for so long, Bo Rai Cho who trained him just gets erased, Kung Lao is passed over because of Raiden who he just makes better Kung Lao, he has yet to even seek out Sonya and Jax, so it’d be cool to see him need to rely on all them again.

 

[YagamiFire]

Who the hell knows.

No one. Including NRS.

That is the entire problem with their storytelling. It's not half-assed. It's not even quarter-assed. It's, at best, eighth-assed.

 

[Subby Z]

Does anyone view this game as non canon?

I kinda do haha. I just don’t even view this as MK. Almost like well they tried something different, but that different was bad. Moving on.

I have zero desire to continue in this timeline. Do you guys think they’ll wrap this timeline up in this game with dlc or continue it into the next game?

 

[Law Hero]

Does anyone view this game as non canon?

I kinda do haha. I just don’t even view this as MK. Almost like well they tried something different, but that different was bad. Moving on.

I have zero desire to continue in this timeline. Do you guys think they’ll wrap this timeline up in this game with dlc or continue it into the next game?

I view everything after Armageddon as sort of non-canon. MK9 made the promise of being a new start to the series by retelling the old timeline with some twists, then immediately jumped 20 years into the future the next game, and then reset the universe again after that. So, who really cares about the MK9-MK11 story? Now, MK1 is like, "We're telling an entirely new story with characters that look and sound like the original characters, but are mostly totally different and written by people who have no ties to the original story." I'd say I view it closer to MK fan-fiction.

I honestly don't know what the plan is moving forward because this multiverse crap means literally anything can happen for any reason. Considering NRS seems to take heavy inspiration from Marvel, only a few years after it's fallen out of fashion, they'll probably implement whatever bad ideas Marvel is throwing out right now into MK2. What is Marvel currently doing that everyone hates? My guess is MK2 will have some of that in it.