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Shang Tsung General Discussion

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Marinjuana

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Personally I would be okay with anything from light touch ups to massive changes for Shang.

As others have said, he's got a bit of string issues where F4* is just better most of the time. So something like B22 not being a high, giving some love to Young strings or old F32.

I'm not in love with his combos in this game but I wouldn't expect them to change too much there, but maybe his Old(or even young) EX air skulls could be adjusted, and his air combos touched up more.

I think Bed of Spikes/EX should be more advantageous on hit.

TBH I would love for them to just change the input for his Ground Skulls. Doing far skull shouldn't have an execution element. It's like you want to meaty with it and it's not that hard, but like you do EX ground skulls in your sleep and far skull takes precision to avoid getting the wrong special. Also why not just make Straight skull/Triple Skull like how Shujinko is where you hold the button down to get as many skulls as you want.

I see some posters look negatively on it but I think his form change is strong and useful, and they could lean into it a little more. Maybe make EX form change a little faster, and revert that change so that you do keep the damage buff when you choose to morph back. Maybe they could also make morph back(perfect form) way quicker so certain moves from other characters could let you get pressure or combos or whatever. Just give us more reason to want to use it, to want to use bar or kameo meter to get morph out.
 
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UghGetOuttaHere

UghGetOuttaHere

Number Cruncher. Jack of All Trades.
Marinjuana said:
Personally I would be okay with anything from light touch ups to massive changes for Shang.

As others have said, he's got a bit of string issues where F3 is just better most of the time. So something like B22 not being a high, giving some love to Young strings or old F32.

I'm not in love with his combos in this game but I wouldn't expect them to change too much there, but maybe his Old(or even young) EX air skulls could be adjusted, and his air combos touched up more.

I think Bed of Spikes/EX should be more advantageous on hit.

TBH I would love for them to just change the input for his Ground Skulls. Doing far skull shouldn't have an execution element. It's like you want to meaty with it and it's not that hard, but like you do EX ground skulls in your sleep and far skull takes precision to avoid getting the wrong special. Also why not just make Straight skull/Triple Skull like how Shujinko is where you hold the button down to get as many skulls as you want.

I see some posters look negatively on it but I think his form change is strong and useful, and they could lean into it a little more. Maybe make EX form change a little faster, and revert that change so that you do keep the damage buff when you choose to morph back. Maybe they could also make morph back(perfect form) way quicker so certain moves from other characters could let you get pressure or combos or whatever. Just give us more reason to want to use it, to want to use bar or kameo meter to get morph out.
Click to expand...
I agree with leaning into his identity and not just buffing his basic tools. I feel like being able to Perfect Form in hitstun or while combod for a bar could get him out of some checkmate situations. Still think he should get another morphing option. There's many ways they could play around with him. And also yes far skull is an unnecessary pain, i end up just spending meter for the easier input. It feels like his two stances kinda just lock him out of things instead of giving him a reason to be in them
 
LEGEND

LEGEND

YES!
A quick round up of all the Kameo moves

Janet: 15 frame, low profiling nut punch. -16 to -19 depending on spacing. 6% damage and restands on hit. EX stuns for a combo.

Jax: 41 frame unblockable ground pound. EX hits full screen. 5% Damage

Kano: 22 Frame high hitting eye laser. Hella punishable. EX is mid. Seems lackluster overall unless I'm missing something.

Khameleon: Just the Mirror armor. . . Idk

Kung Lao: 12 Frame mid spin. -22 on block. EX Launches.

Mavado: 21 Frame full screen low low slide. -19 on block. EX seems to have the OTH properties but nothing else, and is 5% instead of the regular 7%

Motaro: Slow ass Teleport. I must be missing something. . .seems useless.

Sareena: 11 frame mid. -16 on block. EX makes it 7 frames which is nuts when paired with an ambush Kameo for combos.

Scorpion: 26 frame overhead, 8% damage, -14 on block. EX has the same hit stun as the Kameo overhead.

Sektor: 28 frame Teleport Uppercut. Can be done in the Air at 21 frames. -14 on block. EX Launches on hit.

Shujinko: Start meditating which recharges Kameo meter. Can hold down to be closer to the ground. EX is a command run. Not sure if the command run is + on block off anything but you can link normals to the command run and loop it al a SF6 Ken.

Sonya: 18 frame overhead. -20 on block. 6% Damage. EX Launches.

Stryker: 22 Frame overhead. -10 or 11 on block based on spacing.(Has good range) 8% Damage. EX Launches.

Sub-Zero: 16 frame mid shoulder charge that goes about max jump distance. 14 active frames. -11 on block at point blank but it'll be safe at most situation were you'd want to use it. At max distance it is +1 on block. EX can Launch if used with an ambush Kameo.

Tremor: 14 frame high. Good range. Can be about -5 at max distance but it's difficult to space it. Probably punishable most of the time. -9 to -11 on block is most likely. 8% damage. EX is the rock uppercut which hits mid and launches, -14 on block.

Cyrax: Shoots the net. 32 frame startup. Starts being plus on block at about jump distance. Full screen it's +15 on block which means a Ground Skull follow up is a frame trap. Capture state on hit like you'd expect. EX is 25 frame startup, is typically 1 frame better on block and drains meter.

Darrius: 28 Frame mid with ok range 8% Damage on hit but can lead to a combo with a Kameo like Janet. -10 to -13 on block. EX Launches on hit.

Ferra: high hitting command grab for 10% damage. Great range. EX just hits mid and is not a command grab? -26 on block. Eh.

Frost: (can be done in the air) 16 Frame Mid. -17 on block. 7% damage on hit. EX Launches. Has decent range though so it might be hard for some characters to punish.

Goro: 15 frame high. Punch walk. -5 on block, 8% Damage on hit, 3.5% on block. EX let's you extend the hits on block? That's it? Good chip damage I guess.

Common theme is that they are fast and have good range but are punish on block if used carelessly.

This probably deserves it's own thread after being a bit more fleshed out.
 
BumbleBee

BumbleBee

Power of Toasty
I can't imagine you being able to use any of this while morphed, right ? There would be input overlap anyway.
 
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SpiceWeasel

SpiceWeasel

Nothing personal mate!
22041

Please tell me that its just a Bug that you CAN`T Combo with Ground Skulls from BOTH, his new String and the new Cancel after 124???

Like it was shown in the Kombat Kast.... :mad:
 
LEGEND

LEGEND

YES!
SpiceWeasel said:
View attachment 22041

Please tell me that its just a Bug that you CAN`T Combo with Ground Skulls from BOTH, his new String and the new Cancel after 124???

Like it was shown in the Kombat Kast.... :mad:
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm getting the same thing. I guess they want you to use the Kameo steal more? Plenty of other oddities so far this patch so it could get tweaked back soon.
 
SpiceWeasel

SpiceWeasel

Nothing personal mate!
LEGEND said:
Yeah I'm getting the same thing. I guess they want you to use the Kameo steal more? Plenty of other oddities so far this patch so it could get tweaked back soon.
Click to expand...
That was also my first thought but then half of the steal moves don´t connect....

The move we steal from Khameleon is also a big fucking joke :DOGE

But overall i love this new kameo steal mechanic!
 
PrinceGoro

PrinceGoro

Apprentice
SpiceWeasel said:
View attachment 22041

Please tell me that its just a Bug that you CAN`T Combo with Ground Skulls from BOTH, his new String and the new Cancel after 124???

Like it was shown in the Kombat Kast.... :mad:
Click to expand...
Kombat kast shown ground skull after f34 is a specific launch due to gravity as the opponent is considered airborne after shujink crumple stun.

A combo from f34 on its own grounded is still possible,for example with goro its

F34xxdf1,far goro up punch,dbf1,dbf1,df1EX,s4xxdb3.
 
PrinceGoro

PrinceGoro

Apprentice
If the opponet uses cyrax ypu can do some flashy stuff with the net shang steals.
For example extending the standard goro up punch to goro punch walk cancle and getting a morph into the opposing character.

F4121xxdbf1(d+stance switch),up+kameo××f+kameo,s4(d+stance switch,s4,s4xxdf1,s4xxdf1,f4xxdb1EX,dbf1,df1,df4,morph to other character and end how you like it for example sub zero- j24xxdb4EX,slide
 
BumbleBee

BumbleBee

Power of Toasty
Not to undermine your write-up, @LEGEND but Dink made a visual guide for assists' steals
Apparently, Motaro EX tele (besides giving conversions) grants you the ability to deflect projectiles. On brand for Motaro but not entirely obvious (also a bar for that...).
 
PrinceGoro

PrinceGoro

Apprentice
Goro steal cause a straight up reset that cant be blocked. Goro steal punch walk and kameo goro up lunch to punch walk cancle sandwich resets the combo and causes a launch

630 damage
 
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PrinceGoro

PrinceGoro

Apprentice
807 damage 1 bar full kameo if the opponent uses goro and you are using goro(probably ways to do this with using another kameo yourself while the eney uses goro, but here is a goro shwocase)

F4121xxdf1,s4xxdf1,s4xxdf1,f4xxdf1,f4xxdf4(stolen goro punch walk),wait untill last few hits,up+kameoxxf+kameo,s4,s4,s4xxdf1,s4xxdf1,f4xxdb1EX,dbf1,df1,s4xxdb3
 
BumbleBee

BumbleBee

Power of Toasty
PrinceGoro said:
Goro steal cause a straight up reset that cant be blocked. Goro steal punch walk and kameo goro up lunch to punch walk cancle sandwich resets the combo and causes a launch

630 damage
Click to expand...
That's one of the first things i thought of but didn't think they would allow it. Good.
 
SpiceWeasel

SpiceWeasel

Nothing personal mate!
PrinceGoro said:
Kombat kast shown ground skull after f34 is a specific launch due to gravity as the opponent is considered airborne after shujink crumple stun.

A combo from f34 on its own grounded is still possible,for example with goro its

F34xxdf1,far goro up punch,dbf1,dbf1,df1EX,s4xxdb3.
Click to expand...
Nah i watched it again right now and he does F3,4 and ground skull wich launches the CPU towards Shang into Sonjas Leggrab :-(
 
PrinceGoro

PrinceGoro

Apprentice
SpiceWeasel said:
Nah i watched it again right now and he does F3,4 and ground skull wich launches the CPU towards Shang into Sonjas Leggrab :-(
Click to expand...
It works its a specific laumch after shujinko crumple.

Do f4121xxf+kameoxxup+kameo,full dash f34,df1, and the skull will launch towards you.

Maybe there are other kameos or situatuon where it works but the kombo from the kast does indeed work as shown,and its specific to shunjinko. On its own f34 from a regular hit does not launch backward.
 
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LEGEND

LEGEND

YES!
BumbleBee said:
Not to undermine your write-up, @LEGEND but Dink made a visual guide for assists' steals
Apparently, Motaro EX tele (besides giving conversions) grants you the ability to deflect projectiles. On brand for Motaro but not entirely obvious (also a bar for that...).
Click to expand...
No worries. I figure someone would make a video. It's always nice to have things written out though.
 
LEGEND

LEGEND

YES!
So what are we thinking for best Kameo?

So far I think it'll need to be cycled quite often if playing offline, where you can line up your picks based on your opponent.

For Kombat League idk. Mavado seems well rounded and compatible with most, and was already pretty great. Though since the steal moves are all fairly strong yet punishable, it might be worth playing someone like Kano for coverage.

Pre patch I was still adamant that Darrius was his best Kameo. Safe armored launcher and Mixup potential was just better value than anything else other Kameos gave. Now that Mix is pretty common due to the Kameo move steal, safety might be more valuable.
 
LEGEND

LEGEND

YES!
Stryker is feeling pretty good. Easier to make use in neutral without getting smacked like Kano. The new hit reaction for the grenades also helps convert off random hits better than Kano Knives.

So many of the move steals are degenerate neutral skips or mix-ups and being able to make them safe is very strong.
 
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