FrozenG3oX
<3 gimmicks
So you want to get in and be at 0 or even plus ?
So you want to get in and be at 0 or even plus ?
i understand that li mei controls her opponent's approach in neutral with her quick projectile, then has rather safe pressure with good plusframes and a small low/overhead game when they come close. she is also able to armor through or extend her jumps (our point here) if she gets zoned herself. she is neither a pure rushdown or zoning character because she has too many gaps in her strings and only a high projectile, but its rather a constant back & forth between bursts of the 2. is that enough understanding for now?
No! lol
I've read your post and with all due respect, I don't think your understanding of the character goes very deep. I'm not sure why you're so insistent on trying to be an expert when clearly you're not understanding the character which people have already told you more than once, but I digress.
tbh i havent heard anything about li mei from you except asking for buffs.
What exactly would like to hear from me? I'll try to help you if I can.
forget it. ive read through this whole thread and even other li meis are strongly disagreeing with you and provide opinions i find much more reasonable.
Pal, I have no problem if anyone disagrees with me or not. This is a discussion forum.
would be nice if you actually disproved me a single time instead of just claiming you're an expert and i'm not. btw no need to put "expert" in marks, you came up with that term, not me. about your initial post, i have adressed everything you said there (unlike you who only adresses select excerpts of my posts), how an auto-exploding lantern would be able to close every gap and make everything safe and how a safe launching projectile shouldnt also be mid. tbh makes me doubt how much you actually know about li mei. how many matches have you played? whats your record? i mean, in page one you argue iadb4 should be safe because of the execution barrier and get put into place. also on page 1 panicmode called your idea to make iadb4 in general safe insane, now you suggest that also the non-instant db4 is safe and i'm "acting like an expert" for criticizing that? im no expert, shes not my main, but i know her frame data, i know how it feels to play her from about 600 matches and i know how it feels to face her. tbh i'll be out if the discussion goes on on this level.Pal, I have no problem if anyone disagrees with me or not. This is a discussion forum.
However, you're hopelessly trying to engage in a discussion you clearly don't understand or lack knowledge. Which is fine, but if you want to gain knowledge you need to start asking questions instead of trying giving answers.
If you're having trouble against Li Mei and you don't like fighting against her that's also fine. Just say that. Don't start with the "experts" talk of why you think the character should be this or that because you played her for a bit during the Beta like a year ago
In my post, either you agree or not, I gave reasons and examples of why I'd like to see the things I've mentioned. And the funny thing is, the move you're crying over it doesn't even matter much compared to the other suggestions
You've been disproved multiple times already both by me and Panic.
You addressed nothing. You rumbled about me wanting safe mixups and gapless block pressure which is objectively false.
Idk where this comes from. My suggestion of an auto-ignite EXlantern does not indicate in any way I want that. What I said was the EXlantern could be used as a zoning tool for pressure. That would be the intended design, not what you're suggesting. A move can be designed with a specific play style in mind, while avoiding unwanted behaviour like making things safe, etc.
I'm no expert either, but you're just embarrassing yourself at this point. I have been playing Li Mei since launch. I have thousands of matches with her. Not that it says much, but you asked so there you go.
Yeah, because your criticism makes no sense, coupled with the fact that you're so incredibly insistent. Saying thins like you can meter burn when it's not possible in this game, being at -7 after an air special being a "free way to get in", or that you don't have enough counter play against a move that's -7. That's silly to say for any character, not just Li Mei.
no, none of you have proven that air db4 being safe is not too good.
my exact quote, and i dont know how this is rumbling, was:
finally something tangible. i have written before (example: mkx demo sonya) how NRS has messed up character design so often with the unintended consequences of intended design. like melee characters getting a quick projectile thats supposed to help them work their way in, but unintentionally making them also some of the stronger zoners in the game on top of their rushdown.
i am obviously aware that you have to dial in meter use in this game instead of confirming it, no matter if its called MB, EN, or EX. and again: there are characters in the game whose only straight options against -7 are poke or throw, the latter even risking a hefty punish. if thats fine in your opinion, its probably also not an issue if li mei doesnt get to sit in someones face safely from 1,5x jump range.
My comment was towards you saying that you can meter burn the move and that it's a mixup, which Panic and me for example already pointed out to you multiple times that meter burn does not exist in this game and airdb4 is not really a mixup which I happen to agree of course.
I can't talk about MKX Sonya because I've never played her. What I do know however is that the description above does not really fit Li Mei. Moves like bf1, lantern, f3, and to a lesser extent airdb4 are a zoners tools. Li Mei is a jack of all trades, and a master of none. Which is fine, but giving the character an enhanced version of a tool they already have will not make her all of a sudden too good.
Why?
No, it's not about power. It's about having more useful tools we can use as Li Mei players. Airdb4 and its enhanced version are very rarely if ever used against above average players. Why? Because they're very high risk, low reward. It's just not worth it.
I just think you're wrong with what you're saying here. Plain and simple. There are DEFINITELY more options than poke or throw. You can armour, backdash, block, neutral duck, call your kameo, jump, etc.
lmao come on. you can't accuse people of not understanding the character then go say some blatantly wrong shit like this. those are absolutely not zoning tools and she pretty obviously has a sharp design aka the exact opposite of jack of all trades, her relative lack of range and big damage should tell you that (think Kim Wu from KI because they basically play the same. just look at her radar chart and then compare hers to Jago or Fulgore). being a sharply designed character also means she is going to have flaws that you have to work around to be successful. but based on every complaint of yours i've read, the problems you're having aren't the fault of the characters built-in flaws, they're the fault of the player. maybe focus on grinding to level up your game/understanding of the character before asking for every buff imaginable and trying to regulate on other more informed people because it's just a bad look.
Wtf does that even mean? If you're so confident calling me out like that, at least show the absolute minimum effort to make sense. Because all you're saying is an incoherent rant.
Oh, really? I'm pretty confident in what I said. What are these moves according to you then?
Please do tell what bf1, lantern, f3, and airdb4 are then if not ranged/zoning tools. I'm genuinely curious to see your analysis here.
I have no idea what that means.
Please F off with the talk down. You said literally nothing in all your post.
i have literally adressed the MB thing a couple inches above this^^
what does it matter what demo sonya exactly is? it was just an example of characters getting too dominating because the excel in multiple areas. li mei has a bit of everything but isnt godlike at anything and thats fine.
because of wonky NRS hitboxes. anyway, they put jax groundpound in without busting the game, so you never know.
lets say they arent commonly used to get in in neutral. you wrote it before yourself, tools are designed for certain purposes and need safeguards against abuse. the design of air db4 clearly shows that its not meant to be used to approach the opponent in neutral, but on read or reaction.
kameos are not crutches but integral part of the game. your main fighter and your kameo are ONE character. and as you also have said yourself and i did before, li mei is not a zoner. she uses her projectiles to control her opponents approach, not to lock them down fullscreen. and she has pretty good tools against being locked down herself.
do you see that these are all either defensive/movement options or have a bad risk-reward-ratio? this list rather proves my point how strong -7 at point blank in mk1 is.
jack of all trades = can do it all, the points on their radar chart are about equal, well-rounded (opposite of sharp). sharp = can do some things very well and others poorly, radar chart would be pointy because stats are min/maxed, not well rounded. i brought up Kim Wu because Li Mei falls into the same archetype of character. they are very good at certain things/parts of the screen and can seem pretty bad when they're not doing their thing. they are not built to control the entire screen or mix the opp to death. they're designed to stand right outside sweep distance and get big damage from either 1. whiff punishing something or 2. use plus frames to open up the opp.
she doesn't really have a zoning gameplan, generally she's the one chasing because she has to get close/corner them to make them explode. she doesn't want to keep the opp locked down/chuck shit, she wants get close and punish something if they swing or maul if they don't. bf1 keeps her from getting smoked by chars with good projectiles and sometimes checks mid-range dashes. f3 is an okie-doke or cheesy way to get in someone's face but will get checked if used a lot. air db4 is for crushing low pokes, throwing off opp's anti-air timing, turning an early jump over a projectile into a punish, or taking a risk to mix. it kind of operates like a shitty dive kick. lantern is something a zoning character might have because it does lock down the opp in a sense but it's what let's her play her ground game. when lantern goes up it basically says "we are going to play grounded footsies" because they can't jump. now any whiff punish is at least 40% and she can use the threat to get in their face and use plus frames to try to fish for a mistake and it's 40% if she gets it. if they decide they don't want to interact then you just let them walk themselves to the corner and next touch is gonna be fat damage.
just calling it like i see it. it's generally a bad look to call out people for being uninformed when saying some crazy shit that not only no one else agrees with, but also just sounds like some bullshit. there was a lot of talking down to other people but i'm pretty sure i don't see any good players asking for air db4 to be safe or mid projectile. if you're really that confident though tag me in the beef thread and we can settle it like real gamers.
That's a good way to describe Li Mei but you're not doing the character justice, and you have a rather short-sighted POV.
What does "she doesn't really have a zoning gameplan" even mean? If you can't figure out the "zoning plan" with moves like bf1, f3, and the fucking LANTERN then it's a player issue on your part.
No man, you're not calling shit. You should consider getting out of your little bubble and broaden your perspective. Just because YOU haven't seen "good players" asking for certain things doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Get out of your little hole, man. Jeez.
No, sorry it's in the Li Mei category
wasn't even gonna bother responding until i read this part
lololol to the beef thread i go. can't wait to see you play.
Of course you're not going to respond, because you have nothing to say. I've made my point, and I rest my case.
