Suggested MK 1 Changes

[The Ultimate]

I agree with a lot of these changes. The one thing I’d love to see is certain moves be “summon cancellable”, where you cancel a certain normal into a summon assist. Example, you hit 212 with Baraka, and cancel the final 2 of that string into something like Frost ice ball or Motaro triple blast. Those moves don’t see a lot of use, but using them after a move that causes a sliding knockdown? I like it.

The biggest thing the game needs in my opinion is a big Kameo overhaul, and a lot of the changes here sound great; shorter cooldowns and more ambushes. In the future, I want to see more Kameos that actually change playstyles. Ferra so far seems like she might turn every character into a stance character, but how effective it is will be remain to be seen.

I know he’s a meme, but turn Hsu Hao into a kameo and give him a summon assist that’s a high command throw that can be ticked into, heck maybe even make it mid. Every character could be a grappler if they wanted to! This game needs some wild kameos, and most of the DLC kameos have been a step in the right direction.

 

[Wigy]

Imagine NRS put the same effort into an entire games lifespan of patches as King Jr put into this thread.

i like the li mei changes.

i also just want an ex lantern that comes out a bit quicker.

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

Imagine NRS put the same effort into an entire games lifespan of patches as King Jr put into this thread.

i like the li mei changes.

i also just want an ex lantern that comes out a bit quicker.

I like the Meter Burn Lantern idea!

 

[M2Dave]

Lots of buffs and seemingly an attempt to make characters as unique as feasible.

Only NRS can implement a feature like the kameo system, which you would think could have infinite potential in terms of exploration, creativity, and excitement, only to design the second most boring modern fighting game after Mortal Kombat 11.

Perhaps by the time I retire from my profession in 2050, they will have created a fighting game like Mortal Kombat 9, but without the bugs and glitches, no gimmicks like the variation and kameo system, far better balance, and more interesting, complex, as well as unique characters.

 

[UghGetOuttaHere]

snip

Sorry, Idk why it just quoted like that. I was going to say that I Ama big fan of a lot of these changes. Including Havik and Nitara. Im confused on one of the Shang changes. "Form stealer should be useable when morphed into opponent to switch back." Outside of the new inputs for young or old Shang... how would this move differ from Perfect Form?

Also I have a feel your changes for Shao, as is, would break him. He would need heavy readjustments if you No Axe was a toggle able stance. I do really like the Devastator Meter Burn change, I would love if he had more ways to get into No Axe.

 

[CanoCano]

Actually one Shang change i would really like to see is that they change his wakeup to a strike because it's a projectile for no good reason

 

[wsj515]

Rain being able to summon portals mid and far would be so awesome, really don't think it would be too powerful at all even in the current state of the game. Also wouldn't complain if Rain God inputs were made easier, even if the Rain God combos already really aren't that bad.

 

[The Hex Man]

Yeah but this is a balance change thread, it doesn't matter if it looks a bit janky and in any case you could make it so if it goes over an opponent Peacemaker stops travelling faster similar to the E.Honda nerf from last month

Didn't even know that happened with Honda..that actually really smart

 

[Juggs]

What a fantastic post and you can tell you put a lot of time and effort into it. These are the types of posts and discussions TYM was made for, good shit @FOREVER KING JR

Anyway, for me, the main thing I want changed in this game is fixing the absolutely unbalanced risk/reward ratio. There’s very little risk in this game with a lot of teams and the reward is very high. The biggest issue to me in this regard are the fck neutral tools. Because there’s virtually no risk in throwing them out there as you can make them safe on block and/or on whiff. But also, with several of them, if they hit, you’re either getting a decent chunk of damage outright, it leads to a combo, or it leaves you either plus or in an advantageous situation. And there’s not many, if any, real tools to deal with these.

The problem is I’m not sure how to go about fixing this issue. Like, I can think of plenty of ways to fix the issue, but I also don’t necessarily want to make the moves so bad that they become unusable. For instance, a simple fix would be to make the fck neutral tools have very long startup as well as making them travel slower and/or shortening the distance. There could be ways to do these things without gutting the moves, but I’m not sure.

 

[CanoCano]

Didn't even know that happened with Honda..that actually really smart

Yeah his Heavy Headbutt was too hard to whiff punish since it flew under jumping opponents and still went full screen so in the Akuma patch they made it so that he stops as soon as he flies under his opponent regardless of how much he traveled beforehand, pretty smart nerf wouldn't be surprised if they did that for Torpedo

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

Sorry, Idk why it just quoted like that. I was going to say that I Ama big fan of a lot of these changes. Including Havik and Nitara. Im confused on one of the Shang changes. "Form stealer should be useable when morphed into opponent to switch back." Outside of the new inputs for young or old Shang... how would this move differ from Perfect Form?

Also I have a feel your changes for Shao, as is, would break him. He would need heavy readjustments if you No Axe was a toggle able stance. I do really like the Devastator Meter Burn change, I would love if he had more ways to get into No Axe.

for the form stealer thing, so i actually learned something today and this is embarrassing but i didnt know that "Perfect Form" existed and didnt know shang could already switch back from the opponent to himself. but i still dont think you can choose which form you take when switching back. also i think it would be cool if you could spend a bar of meter to morph back to Perfect Form but without needing to go under an animation

I see what you mean with your thoughts on my shao changes, my only issue with shao is its not clear when youre going to get axe back unwillingly and if youre in range to do the no axe specials that require to be within a certain vicinity and it makes his gameplan a bit predictable sometimes. if hes staying by axe then its more obvious he wants to possibly command grab or go for an armored special etc

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

Actually one Shang change i would really like to see is that they change his wakeup to a strike because it's a projectile for no good reason

I feel that, i think its considered a projectile because the attack uses fire in the animation so i guess its coded to be countered by sub ice armor even though it really shouldnt be

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

What a fantastic post and you can tell you put a lot of time and effort into it. These are the types of posts and discussions TYM was made for, good shit @FOREVER KING JR

Thank you for the kind words ^

Anyway, for me, the main thing I want changed in this game is fixing the absolutely unbalanced risk/reward ratio. There’s very little risk in this game with a lot of teams and the reward is very high. The biggest issue to me in this regard are the fck neutral tools. Because there’s virtually no risk in throwing them out there as you can make them safe on block and/or on whiff. But also, with several of them, if they hit, you’re either getting a decent chunk of damage outright, it leads to a combo, or it leaves you either plus or in an advantageous situation. And there’s not many, if any, real tools to deal with these.

The problem is I’m not sure how to go about fixing this issue. Like, I can think of plenty of ways to fix the issue, but I also don’t necessarily want to make the moves so bad that they become unusable. For instance, a simple fix would be to make the fck neutral tools have very long startup as well as making them travel slower and/or shortening the distance. There could be ways to do these things without gutting the moves, but I’m not sure.

Im alright with most of the fu$! neutral tools because its usually in the nature of assist games to have these kinds of things but my only issue with them currently is its mostly ambush assists that allow the fu$! neutral tools which makes ambush assists currently miles stronger than most summons, not to say i want ambushes nerfed because i dont think thats the solution. to me summons have to be buffed to be on par with ambush assist which honestly wouldnt be that difficult

 

[BarakaTile]

Letting Reptile special cancel Forceball after f23 and EXAcid Spit restand would be cool I guess. Not really feeling these ideas too much but imo Reptile is possibly one of the most dangerous characters to buff in this game. He's not terrible, What he can do is really good and one wrong buff can get him nerfed into the ground in the future once people complain.

I said before it would be wild to see him properly set up and stop Forceballs like X. But I dunno if that would fix anything for him. I also said about plugging the b3 gap but I don't know if that's enough.

So what I would do instead is turn his f3 into a mid so that he doesn't have to use stubby f2 as much, Shave down some of the block frames of f31, Let him backdash a little bit further away and see where it goes from there. If that still doesn't help then yeah plug the gap from b3.

He seems like he was purposely built to keep a certain range and use s3, b3, Dash, Forceball and maybe sneak a charged b2/Slide option in there but he doesn't do it very well. I don't think he needs to be invisi-blessed or Spit/Forceball zoning from Fullscreen, he just needs to be able to play this game better.

 

[BarakaTile]

Baraka
-B3,2 should be -6 on block (from -13)

I like this one, Right now there's no point in using b3,2 at all.

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

Letting Reptile special cancel Forceball after f23 and EXAcid Spit restand would be cool I guess. Not really feeling these ideas too much but imo Reptile is possibly one of the most dangerous characters to buff in this game. He's not terrible, What he can do is really good and one wrong buff can get him nerfed into the ground in the future once people complain.

I said before it would be wild to see him properly set up and stop Forceballs like X. But I dunno if that would fix anything for him. I also said about plugging the b3 gap but I don't know if that's enough.

So what I would do instead is turn his f3 into a mid so that he doesn't have to use stubby f2 as much, Shave down some of the block frames of f31, Let him backdash a little bit further away and see where it goes from there. If that still doesn't help then yeah plug the gap from b3.

He seems like he was purposely built to keep a certain range and use s3, b3, Dash, Forceball and maybe sneak a charged b2/Slide option in there but he doesn't do it very well. I don't think he needs to be invisi-blessed or Spit/Forceball zoning from Fullscreen, he just needs to be able to play this game better.

I think B3,1 having no gap would probably be fine, he has good buttons imo though. F2 isnt too stubby of a mid imo, If F3 was a mid then F2 would probably only be used for combos

 

[LEGEND]

Some fun changes for Shang but nothing that really helps him play the game.

He doesn't have anything threatening when at jump distance or closer except Ground Skull, and at that range it's a huge risk. His zoning isn't going to do anything against good players. Once people learn the matchup it's very hard to get anything going.

He either needs a complete overhaul to his current tools (unlikely) or additional tools so he doesn't have to use ground skull in unsafe situations. Something like a Rain B3 or Baraka S2 would go a long way. But he still needs either a low reward mixup or better zoning options that will get some chip damage in.

The suggested Young Air Skull would have to be mega plus on block to make any impact, and even then, isn't really enough.

 

[just_2swift]

havik needs an install buff he can activate. Or have his blood ball restore health on hit

have tether restore health over the duration capped at 25% to justify 2 bars

A cmd grab that’s mid that incorporate his weapon the Morning Star. He plays like a grappler with no cmd grab anyways so why not?

 

[BarakaTile]

If F3 was a mid then F2 would probably only be used for combos

Yes. Yes it would.

 

[Krasiox]

In order for Reptile to join the MK1 roster his armor should be moved on his bf2 and it should launch just like Shujinkos copy move does. Why shouldn't he punish mashers with a safe armor launcher into oki/setup like 93% of the cast???

 

[darklightjg1]

For Nitara, I want the first airdash cancel in a combo/sequence to always be no meter cost (and then any following airdash cancel will cost a bar). I also want to be able to steer her fatal blow (for example: no direction makes it go its current distance, but holding back or forward influences how close or far she travels after activating). I would like 50 more health, but making her sacrifice more useful/not immediately going away after doing a special or getting hit sounds like a more attractive idea.

-An input thing that bugs me and is not really a thing in other fighters: if I input something and happen to press it twice (like Nitara's b2), I can no longer cancel it into a special move. Or something like Reptile's f211 into Up Mavado assist... if I happened to do f2111, then I can't get Mavado to come out. Change that to allow the special/kameo cancels if the string wasn't going to do anything else anyway, or give an option in the controller settings to allow it (NOT release check because that is atrociously implemented).

-Everyone should have a reliable way to combo into stuff like Cyrax net midscreen if it's going to be a summon Kameo attack.

 

[spidey300]

After two games of this I know nrs not doing anything to make fatal blows worse. Some of these devs love their buss out super mechanic. The supers in Tekken 8 used to not be full combo punishable but they changed it to barely full combo punishable on release even though they were already full combo punishable in the previous game.

 

[Tony at Home]

I dont believe there are getup invincibility frames for just mashing out normals on oki?

Is it not just because the animation of the opponent "getting up" plays while the game considers them to be in a down state? They're seemingly invincible because your meaty will whiff but the opponent is for all intents and purposes "down" at that point still. To my knowledge, the moment an opponent is able to act, your are able to hit them.

If there were built in invincible frames then you wouldn't be able to meaty in a way that keeps an opponent whose holding up grounded on hit.

The problem as I see it is the grounded duration for any knocked down opponent is extremely unclear and the getup animation is an extremely bad indicator to go off. This has been an annoyance to me in every NRS game

 

[CanoCano]

After two games of this I know nrs not doing anything to make fatal blows worse. Some of these devs love their buss out super mechanic. The supers in Tekken 8 used to not be full combo punishable but they changed it to barely full combo punishable on release even though they were already full combo punishable in the previous game.

FBs ain't that good in this game tho, not only are they Breakable and reactable now but most of them fall into either one of two categories
Overheads that you can Up Block on reaction and get a full combo punish every time, and Mids you can jump or F/Block on reaction and get a full combo punish every time, the only ones that don't fall into these boxes are Johnny's which is a parry and Reiko's which is a grab, maybe the projectile ones as well but that's only when they're at max distance cause otherwise it's easy to jump and punish them
The only FB nerf they reverted for some reason was the armour frames, back in the beta FBs got their armour 8f onwards but in the full game it's back to 5f onwards

 

[Juggs]

FBs ain't that good in this game tho, not only are they Breakable and reactable now but most of them fall into either one of two categories
Overheads that you can Up Block on reaction and get a full combo punish every time, and Mids you can jump or F/Block on reaction and get a full combo punish every time, the only ones that don't fall into these boxes are Johnny's which is a parry and Reiko's which is a grab, maybe the projectile ones as well but that's only when they're at max distance cause otherwise it's easy to jump and punish them
The only FB nerf they reverted for some reason was the armour frames, back in the beta FBs got their armour 8f onwards but in the full game it's back to 5f onwards

FB’s are definitely still good in this game. The raw ones aren’t breakable, just the ones that are apart of combos. And they should be reactable AND punishable. NRS did a really good job in balancing them from MK11 to MK1 tbh.