FOXY debates FATE after he attacks Ketchup and Sonic

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Here is the video, if you all don't know FATE he is a Scrubby MK Hate Channel that bitches about everything from 50% combos to losing half your life for wiffing a button to blaming K&M for NRS removing Cross play just because they beta tested "Game Balance for 5 Days and didn't have Internet access then lol:

 

[John Grizzly]

Foxy shouldn't have even given this moron the promotion. I was happier before I knew he even existed.

And if he reads this, yes.....pro player's opinions mean more than yours because you're too ignorant to even realize what release check is, and that's just one example.

I made it up to that part where he admits he doesn't even know what release check is or that it could be turned off. It's been a thing for years.

 

[Son ov Timett]

Two hours of Foxy talking to a mong? I'll pass

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

I actually like something Foxy said that changed my mind about characters viability.
Although I believe every character in MK1 can be viable I don't think it's likely they will make Top 8's
He said most characters in MK1 are easy to defend against, too easy in fact.
I understand why Sub Zero, Scorpion, Nitara and Reptile mains want Buffs, although they have effective gameplans they are lame compared to S+/S Tiers. The top characters force you into less than favorable situations while the bottom have to put themselves in riskier situations just to mix and pressure.
But Foxy is right with HTB protection aside from a few glitches being unblockable when just framed, it's very easy to fuzzy 90% of the mix in MK1 and all it takes is some time practicing.
He wants more strong mixups by slightly adjusting the characters with buffs. He even went far enough to say he uses Kitana Lao because it's the most optimal getting utility over damage only netting around 30% each touch but makes up with zoning, space control, keep away and chip, if they can't touch her it doesn't matter how much damage she does if he doesn't make the mistakes to get out in 50% combos.
But he stopped playing several characters because of how easy it was to Fuzzy, Duck OS or how hard it was to get that touch against top players.

 

[BarakaTile]

Foxy shouldn't have even given this moron the promotion.

Maybe. But lately I've felt that there are too many stupid opinions on MK from stupid morons that go uncontested online.

 

[rifraf]

I actually like something Foxy said that changed my mind about characters viability.
Although I believe every character in MK1 can be viable I don't think it's likely they will make Top 8's
He said most characters in MK1 are easy to defend against, too easy in fact.
I understand why Sub Zero, Scorpion, Nitara and Reptile mains want Buffs, although they have effective gameplans they are lame compared to S+/S Tiers. The top characters force you into less than favorable situations while the bottom have to put themselves in riskier situations just to mix and pressure.
But Foxy is right with HTB protection aside from a few glitches being unblockable when just framed, it's very easy to fuzzy 90% of the mix in MK1 and all it takes is some time practicing.
He wants more strong mixups by slightly adjusting the characters with buffs. He even went far enough to say he uses Kitana Lao because it's the most optimal getting utility over damage only netting around 30% each touch but makes up with zoning, space control, keep away and chip, if they can't touch her it doesn't matter how much damage she does if he doesn't make the mistakes to get out in 50% combos.
But he stopped playing several characters because of how easy it was to Fuzzy, Duck OS or how hard it was to get that touch against top players.

Thanks for sharing. I didn't manage to reach the point you're mentioning before I quit.

Other than that, what a complete waist of energy. It's like talking to a toddler, expecting a deep conversation. No logic, no nuance.

 

[mrapchem]

Yes, I tried to watch this in its entirety, but I couldn't stomach FATE's stupidity for that long. And as bad as his logic is, his gameplay is even worse!

Nonetheless, this is an important moment because it does highlight the dichotomy between casual/scrub player base and the competitive/non-casual player base.

The latter needs to get better before they get all of our characters and tech nerfed away and we are in a unique position to educate them - should they be willing to listen/learn. And even if not, we can be such a vociferous minority that NRS hears us over their pleas for nerfs - or at least try to be.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Yes, I tried to watch this in its entirety, but I couldn't stomach FATE's stupidity for that long. And as bad as his logic is, his gameplay is even worse!

Nonetheless, this is an important moment because it does highlight the dichotomy between casual/scrub player base and the competitive/non-casual player base.

The latter needs to get better before they get all of our characters and tech nerfed away and we are in a unique position to educate them - should they be willing to listen/learn. And even if not, we can be such as vociferous minority that NRS hears us over their pleas for nerfs - or at least try to be.

I think they do hear the top 10 players because they do amazing things with their games. But NRS management and WB are definitely casual players and not fully understanding the depth behind high level play.
So when a salty pro player complains about a character instead of labbing, they see the pressure/mix/decent zoning and they instantly nerf it at least in the past.
That FATE guy stated NRS caters to Pros over casuals and Foxy's response was "name one game they kept the strong tech we discover" then "every time us pros find good tech that's strong but counterable in tournaments, WB nerfs it, this is true for every NRS game"
It's also Foxy's opinion that WB is calling all the shots and it's not NRS releasing without Crossplay and other features.

They absolutely nerf based on casuals or lazy pros that just want their problems nerfed away
But this has been a problem as long as I can remember especially in MKX. And most of the time the characters they chose to nerf has literally the same stuff that was left in game for a select few. Balancing has always had favoritism.
Just like in MK1, Nerf Baraka, Raiden and leave Johnny, Kenshi and Nerf Cyrax but leave Lao, Stryker, Goro doing very similar things.
I'll never understand why they targeted a select few. In my opinion Cyrax could have been nerfed far differently since they kept the same in, only thing they don't do is close a strings gap while also make it safe at end. But not many characters get combo off Armor so I'm not understanding why it was so important to nerf Cyrax to the point no one uses him in competitive tournaments.
I get he was strong but is it a crime to be soo good every character can use him? Why not just Buff other Kameos, several of them have useless moves and many would benefit with summon changed to ambush and you would get diversity that way.
Why take away everything from lower tiers?

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

I didn't know who fate was until recently and only because Google constantly bombards me with his content. I've watched some of his stuff and just assumed he was the voice of the casual scene, since you will see a lot of his opinions parroted in chat during tournaments. Casuals and non-casuals have always been at odds, but it seems a lot more so recently with NRS games, and I'm kind of left to blame NRS a little bit for it. Every game they release has to be drastically different in one way or another from the last, so legacy skill doesn't exist in MK where it's extremely important in SF and Tekken. This also develops a new scene for every game that comes out, meaning NRS constantly has 3-4 different groups of people in their following that will never agree with each other on a direction for the series because the series doesn't and never had much direction to begin with.

To a certain degree, MK is often seen as the most casual game in the FGC. That's true for a lot of reasons, and MK games are abysmal at retaining players from other fighting games. We non-casuals almost bring it on ourselves with our masochistic relationships with a developer that refuses to communicate and a producer that's constantly trying to rob us, when a lot of us would probably be served better as competitive players by switching games. It is what it is though. We were cursed for falling in love with the MK universe and will be damned to the netherealm for eternity where Ed Boon and Stephanie Brownback will dick us down for all eternity.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

To a certain degree, MK is often seen as the most casual game in the FGC. That's true for a lot of reasons, and MK games are abysmal at retaining players from other fighting games. We non-casuals almost bring it on ourselves with our masochistic relationships with a developer that refuses to communicate and a producer that's constantly trying to rob us, when a lot of us would probably be served better as competitive players by switching games. It is what it is though. We were cursed for falling in love with the MK universe and will be damned to the netherealm for eternity where Ed Boon and Stephanie Brownback will dick us down for all eternity.

Sonic, Tekkenmaster, and probably other players I’m forgetting all came from other fighting games. Same with the generation before them with people like Slips, PL and Chris G. And other players like K7 Showoff that have done recently well in other games still come right back to MK.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Sonic, Tekkenmaster, and probably other players I’m forgetting all came from other fighting games. Same with the generation before them with people like Slips, PL and Chris G. And other players like K7 Showoff that have done recently well in other games still come right back to MK.

It's a general statement, not a 100% natural fact. Not every pro caliber player from other games ditches MK after the first EVO, but the vast majority of them do. It's been that way since MK9 at least. Guys like Sonic are exceptions to that rule, and he especially is a bad comparison because he's a generational virtuoso. What Mozart accomplished in his era wasn't always a general reflection of the state of music at the time because of a level of talent that transcends the norm. What Sonic is doing at any given time is not a good reflection of the FGC in generally because when he's at his peak, he operates on a level that his peers can't easily or consistently match.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

It's a general statement, not a 100% natural fact. Not every pro caliber player from other games ditches MK after the first EVO, but the vast majority of them do. It's been that way since MK9 at least. Guys like Sonic are exceptions to that rule, and he especially is a bad comparison because he's a generational virtuoso. What Mozart accomplished in his era wasn't always a general reflection of the state of music at the time because of a level of talent that transcends the norm. What Sonic is doing at any given time is not a good reflection of the FGC in generally because when he's at his peak, he operates on a level that his peers can't easily or consistently match.

We do the same to them. Most people capable of playing a professional level need to focus in order to be capable of playing at peak in their primary game. Our top players might play a few months of some other title (like SF6 and Strive) but they always jet when a new MK is out.

 

[BarakaTile]

And now he's debating Tom Brady.

This man is a fool. I sincerely hope nobody at NRS is listening to him, He has a terrible vision for what MK1 should be.

 

[Plop]

I rolled a fat one and watched this nearly all the way through last night. My brain absolutely melted, it was intense. For the most part though, it was good fun.

Foxy ran circles around this guy. He made him look like an absolute tit. It was pretty funny. After about an hour, it became apparent that Fate was literally just arguing for the sake of arguing and nothing made any sense anymore. Words lost all meaning and I found myself asking the question: "What's a Mortal Kombat?"

Fairplay to Foxy though.

 

[josephf5]

I’ve only seen one video by that Fate guy and he was claiming that people online were using some kind of macro software that automatically did combos for them, because that’s the only way they could keep landing big combos consistently. Then his proof was that one of the people he suspected of doing this wouldn’t do a combo they just did again after he got on the mic and asked them to.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

I’ve only seen one video by that Fate guy and he was claiming that people online were using some kind of macro software that automatically did combos for them, because that’s the only way they could keep landing big combos consistently. Then his proof was that one of the people he suspected of doing this wouldn’t do a combo they just did again after he got on the mic and asked them to.

I mean he didn't understand or investigate release check, blamed NRS for glitches causing his inputs to not come out.
I sincerely doubt FATE goes in practice to practice combos. The idiot said that practice mode is just theory crafty, using a martial arts reference. He believes the only way to get better is hoping online day 1 of release and learning in matches.
Imagine never using practice and thinking everything is broken.

 

[rifraf]

The plot thickens, he made a tier list. Idk what I expected to see, but here it is. It's as unexciting as his rhetoric.

 

[LEGEND]

this is funny. About 6 or 7 years ago i was talking to a coworker and somehow IGUA 1 came up and he brought up alot of the same points for why he didn't like it, even the accusation that people were "botting" to pull off combos.

Super casual players have some wild views on fighting games.

 

[Gooberking]

I'm trying really hard to not expose myself to whatever is going on in that video. The curiosity is wearing me down

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

Foxy shouldn't have even given this moron the promotion. I was happier before I knew he even existed.

And if he reads this, yes.....pro player's opinions mean more than yours because you're too ignorant to even realize what release check is, and that's just one example.

I made it up to that part where he admits he doesn't even know what release check is or that it could be turned off. It's been a thing for years.

After years I came here to see what I expected: The same group of NRS ball lickers and....fans.
I don't know who this "fate" is and I'm not talking about the video, but at this point if you play this game /consider this one competitively you are just a zombie.
If you consider what top players say....you must listen more carefully because the main consensus is that this game is broken AF, but not only this one...basically all FG are bullshit, with some ones more broken than others.

MK1 is disrespectful in a level that a person with no critical sense at all would consider this as something to play, I'm sorry. And I'm not even touching that premium store, which for anybody that has standards....is a sign to fuck off and do something else with your precious time.

You don't need to waste your life in something that is bullshit in your face since the beggining.....or you do you think that knowing what a OS means in a certain context, or release check whatever, is going to save that shit? Please man....hold the block button until a certain combination of Kameo / character cheap damage you to death.

The same zombies here as ever....

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

After years I came here to see what I expected: The same group of NRS ball lickers and....fans.
I don't know who this "fate" is and I'm not talking about the video, but at this point if you play this game /consider this one competitively you are just a zombie.
If you consider what top players say....you must listen more carefully because the main consensus is that this game is broken AF, but not only this one...basically all FG are bullshit, with some ones more broken than others.

MK1 is disrespectful in a level that a person with no critical sense at all would consider this as something to play, I'm sorry. And I'm not even touching that premium store, which for anybody that has standards....is a sign to fuck off and do something else with your precious time.

You don't need to waste your life in something that is bullshit in your face since the beggining.....or you do you think that knowing what a OS means in a certain context, or release check whatever, is going to save that shit? Please man....hold the block button until a certain combination of Kameo / character cheap damage you to death.

The same zombies here as ever....

I'd like to know which top players you are refering to when you say the consensus is that this game is broken - if anything, I've seen most top players complain the game barely got time for the dirty stuff to develop and NRS already nerfed some characters to oblivion while leaving many others without buffs.
Also, as someone who is definitely not a fan of how NRS has balanced games since MK9, MK1 is the second most tame MK game they did, only losing to the borefest of MK11, and is (from what I've been hearing on this site and some top players like SonicFox, Dragon and Foxy) probably the most well balanced so far.

Even at his worst pre-patch, Raiden/Cyrax chip was light-years behind of the brokeness of MK9 Kabal, Sonya, Freddy, Kenshi, Cyrax, as well MKX Pre-patch Tanya and Alien. I'd argue he's even less of a problem, given the tools every other character has in MK1, compared to how Liu Kang, Cetrion and Fujin were on MK11. So I have no idea what are you talking about when you say this game is "broken AF", unless you consider basically every other MK game made by NRS an even broker mess. And don't let me even get started on MKDA-MKD-MKA, let alone UMK3 and MKTrilogy, regarding competitive balance.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

After years I came here to see what I expected: The same group of NRS ball lickers and....fans.
I don't know who this "fate" is and I'm not talking about the video, but at this point if you play this game /consider this one competitively you are just a zombie.
If you consider what top players say....you must listen more carefully because the main consensus is that this game is broken AF, but not only this one...basically all FG are bullshit, with some ones more broken than others.

MK1 is disrespectful in a level that a person with no critical sense at all would consider this as something to play, I'm sorry. And I'm not even touching that premium store, which for anybody that has standards....is a sign to fuck off and do something else with your precious time.

You don't need to waste your life in something that is bullshit in your face since the beggining.....or you do you think that knowing what a OS means in a certain context, or release check whatever, is going to save that shit? Please man....hold the block button until a certain combination of Kameo / character cheap damage you to death.

The same zombies here as ever....

Stop liking what I don't like: the post.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

I'd like to know which top players you are refering to when you say the consensus is that this game is broken - if anything, I've seen most top players complain the game barely got time for the dirty stuff to develop and NRS already nerfed some characters to oblivion while leaving many others without buffs.
Also, as someone who is definitely not a fan of how NRS has balanced games since MK9, MK1 is the second most tame MK game they did, only losing to the borefest of MK11, and is (from what I've been hearing on this site and some top players like SonicFox, Dragon and Foxy) probably the most well balanced so far.

Even at his worst pre-patch, Raiden/Cyrax chip was light-years behind of the brokeness of MK9 Kabal, Sonya, Freddy, Kenshi, Cyrax, as well MKX Pre-patch Tanya and Alien. I'd argue he's even less of a problem, given the tools every other character has in MK1, compared to how Liu Kang, Cetrion and Fujin were on MK11. So I have no idea what are you talking about when you say this game is "broken AF", unless you consider basically every other MK game made by NRS an even broker mess. And don't let me even get started on MKDA-MKD-MKA, let alone UMK3 and MKTrilogy, regarding competitive balance.

"MK1 is the second most tame MK game they did"

MK players always with the same argument. "The shit they made before was way worse"...like....NRS never did anything that is not broken and well done balance wise in any game....why are you comparing this to shit NRS did in the past?
Why are you not comparing this with Tekken, or even SF6? (With all the BS that exist in that game...it is miles ahead competitively than this thing NRS released this year).

The pros that you asked...like....almost all of them, if they do not say "this game is broken", they use terms like "this is bullshit!..."this is robbery"...."this character is broken".....Sonicfox and Ninjakilla do that all the time by the way.
But beyond that....we had Daigo assumig that SF6 is indeed made for casuals to win some matches....and it is a scrubby game.
MenaRD said that as well.
But the main one is the Brazillian player Keoma. There is a podcast where he talked a lot about this....and he is a nerd on FGs that you and me will never be,
He basically said that FGs are broken by nature....all of them, some more, some less...but all of them are bullshit.

But the state of MK1 is unaceptable....as a consumer is a shame to see people defending this thing.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

MK players always with the same argument. "The shit they made before was way worse"...like....NRS never did anything that is not broken and well done balance wise in any game....why are you comparing this to shit NRS did in the past?

Because, 1) duh, this is an NRS forum. 2) I play Mortal Kombat, I don't play Tekken, nor SF. 3) This topic is about MK. 4) You were arguing this game is broken, while clearly not providing any substantial argument as to why.

Why are you not comparing this with Tekken, or even SF6? (With all the BS that exist in that game...it is miles ahead competitively than this thing NRS released this year).

Because, again, this is an NRS forum and I don't play these fighters - and this topic is not about those either.

The pros that you asked...like....almost all of them, if they do not say "this game is broken", they use terms like "this is bullshit!..."this is robbery"...."this character is broken".....Sonicfox and Ninjakilla do that all the time by the way.

I was refering to MK pro players, not pro players in general - again, this topic is about MK. Also, what you are describing are just exclamations done mid-match by heated players, not pro players arguing that the game sucks and explaining why.

But beyond that....we had Daigo assumig that SF6 is indeed made for casuals to win some matches....and it is a scrubby game.
MenaRD said that as well

So, according to your own arguments, SF6 is a broke game as well, which begs the question - then why the fuck are you even arguing MK "is trash and broke" in the first place, since other fighters are broken as well?

But the main one is the Brazillian player Keoma. There is a podcast where he talked a lot about this....and he is a nerd on FGs that you and me will never be,

I have seen Keoma at some locals here in Rio Grande do Sul. Guy has an understanding of frame data, punishes, etc, just like, every single pro-player from MK. Including KillerXinok, who you might have known about already, and whom I have beaten some sets against back in MK9 and MKX. I can assure you I know just as much about fighting games as Keoma, and, seeing from your posts, more than you do.

He basically said that FGs are broken by nature....all of them, some more, some less...but all of them are bullshit.

So, what exactly are you arguing here? You are saying every fighting game has more powerful characters, and some less powerful ones? Some more balanced and some less balanced, but every one of them is not perfectly balanced? Yeah, doesn't take a huge fighting game nerd to figure that out, pal. Unless you mean a game not perfectly balanced is "broken", which is weird, as perfect balance is probably impossible in a fighting game and shouldn't be a realistic goal.

But the state of MK1 is unaceptable....as a consumer is a shame to see people defending this thing.

I will end this post saying what has been said unanimously by just about everyone: MK1's predatory monetization and lack of quality of life features are indeed atrocious and a shit thing to (not) have in 2023. Despite that, it is considered by many previous MK players as having one of the best gameplay an MK has ever gotten.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

I'd like to know which top players you are refering to when you say the consensus is that this game is broken - if anything, I've seen most top players complain the game barely got time for the dirty stuff to develop and NRS already nerfed some characters to oblivion while leaving many others without buffs.
Also, as someone who is definitely not a fan of how NRS has balanced games since MK9, MK1 is the second most tame MK game they did, only losing to the borefest of MK11, and is (from what I've been hearing on this site and some top players like SonicFox, Dragon and Foxy) probably the most well balanced so far.

Even at his worst pre-patch, Raiden/Cyrax chip was light-years behind of the brokeness of MK9 Kabal, Sonya, Freddy, Kenshi, Cyrax, as well MKX Pre-patch Tanya and Alien. I'd argue he's even less of a problem, given the tools every other character has in MK1, compared to how Liu Kang, Cetrion and Fujin were on MK11. So I have no idea what are you talking about when you say this game is "broken AF", unless you consider basically every other MK game made by NRS an even broker mess. And don't let me even get started on MKDA-MKD-MKA, let alone UMK3 and MKTrilogy, regarding competitive balance.

Yep when I talked with Dragon he said he wanted all the characters to be at S Tier level and Kameos to be brought up to lais level.
Foxy in this very video stated MK1 has very easy to deal with offense and wants more dirt.
Sonic said the same and numerous other top players. It's worth mentioning most of these top NRS players also placed high in other FG's like SF and Tekken among others, several top players like Sonic came from other fighters and all of them stated what most complain is cheap in MK exists in SF, Tekken and many others.
And the balance of other fighters is absolutely not better than MK1

You could make an argument MK1 balance being held together by Kameos is a bad idea but that's another convo.
MK1 is very well balanced for any NRS game at launch.