The State of Zoning and Overall Strategy in Mortal Kombat 1

[CrimsonShadow]

@M2Dave do you think you’ll find a character in this game like Tremor Crystalline that you enjoy enough to offset him not being a true zoner?

enjoy enough broke enough

 

[M2Dave]

@M2Dave do you think you’ll find a character in this game like Tremor Crystalline that you enjoy enough to offset him not being a true zoner?

Good question.

I got lucky with Tremor. He was as good defensively as he was offensively, which played to my strengths as a fighting game player, especially when EX low shatter had armor.

I do need to pick a top tier. I think I will be trying Ashrah next. I like the way she plays.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

I will be trying Ashrah next. I like the way she plays.

Funny enough, it seems like her biggest struggle is full screen against characters with a good fireball.

 

[M2Dave]

Funny enough, it seems like her biggest struggle is full screen against characters with a good fireball.

Why?

She has a full-screen teleport that has the ability to go through fireballs when timed properly. She is usually paired with Sareena, Sektor, or Kung Lao so she has full-screen options. Besides, dark stance has an underrated projectile that can be utilized to win zoning wars if you have a life lead.

Speaking of projectiles, light stance d,f+1 is godlike at mid range. Standing 2 and f+2 are exceptional buttons. She has such an effective mid-screen presence that even I can play footsies and win. LOL. The only normal attack that Reiko (from the perspective of a Reiko player) has over Ashrah is d+4, which has more range.

However, unlike Reiko, Ashrah deals significantly more damage. About 45% per touch with Sareena.

Also, what is going on with EN Astral Projection (i.e., EX b,f+2)? Does the move have impenetrable armor on startup?

Top tier privileges.

I doubt that this game is anywhere near as balanced as the community believes. I think that the more people play the game the more evident the gap between the top tier and low tier characters will become.

 

[SaltShaker]

Also, what is going on with EN Astral Projection (i.e., EX b,f+2)? Does the move have impenetrable armor on startup?

Not only that, but to me what I think will make Ashrah Top Tier more than anything else is being able to cancel the armor and stay in place within gaps to punish. There are some strings that have gaps that things like Lao Kameo teleport can't punish and FB doesn't matter much, etc. But with Ashrah she can full combo punish the gaps by cancelling the armor into S1 or S2. No Kameo needed, pure MKX interrupt into combo style.

For example, Johnny's 4 hit string into low kick then OH Kick has that "good style" gap between the low and OH. But Ashrah can blow it up with the armor cancel between the two for full high damage combo lol. It's being underutilized for now, but once people memorize all the gaps she's going to break the game.

 

[ItsOri]

I honestly do not have much to say about the zoning in this game. I think it exists. It matters. It affects match ups. However, the high damage output, the setplay, and the chip damage currently transcend the zoning by a wide margin.

This might be the most reasonable thing you’ve ever written on this site. Agreed.

 

[M2Dave]

For example, Johnny's 4 hit string into low kick then OH Kick has that "good style" gap between the low and OH. But Ashrah can blow it up with the armor cancel between the two for full high damage combo lol. It's being underutilized for now, but once people memorize all the gaps she's going to break the game.

I watched this tech on Titanium Tigerz YouTube channel last night. This cancel kind of reminds me of Tremor's stone punch in MKX.

Do you use Ashrah? If so, what do the orbs do when you are in dark stance?

 

[SaltShaker]

I watched this tech on Titanium Tigerz YouTube channel last night. This cancel kind of reminds me of Tremor's stone punch in MKX.

Do you use Ashrah? If so, what do the orbs do when you are in dark stance?

I was actually going to say you might feel right at home having used Tremor lol. I think it's the best tool of it's kind in the game, very good damage follow up to make it risky for players to even do some of their best strings.

Other than Sindel I ended trying Rain and Ashrah on the side. Feel like Rain is meh so stopped using him now, but Ashrah is really strong. Like really really strong. So still using her and labbing Kenshi. I use the Sareena kameo with Ashrah because you can catch people off guard full screen into combo with her so they're always blocking/ducking due to that and F2 midscreen. And with Sareena if they jump you can AA with S2, into forward Kameo (the fast disc), into F2, into Shoryuken (or EX for more combo) for one of the easiest/best AAs in the game. Sareena also turns her B3 into a full combo 45% damage lol and F3 can already combo so you have a neutral-spaced 50/50 starter at all times that is mostly safe. Spaced away fireball frame traps into F2, so they have to respect the follow up which makes the 50/50 easy to enforce, and if they don't respect it you can F2 them for full combo up to 46% damage. Or step back and throw another Fireball and AA if they jump because the recovery is so fast. She's just strong all around.

Dark stance I think is underutilized because of the cooldown swapping time. Each "ring stack" dark puts on them adds a damage stack increase up to 3 rings. And when in light, it allows you to combo off of moves you normally can't combo like B31 (low into knockdown becomes a launcher), B22 (mid OH) and another string I'm forgetting because I use it with these two. There are setups that allow you to combo, switch, combo, and switch back, but you'll lose oki, or just not switch back and keep oki.

All in all I think she's a very strong Top 5ish type character with relatively easy execution. If not for the controversy surrounding the "Top 4" I think she'd be talked about a LOT more than she is.

 

[rifraf]

If not for the controversy surrounding the "Top 4" I think she'd be talked about a LOT more than she is.

That's one of the reasons I love this game. You never know what character is going to be the next one to be talked about.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Outside of Subzero assist doing his job too well I dont think zoning suffers too much here.

Ye characters like Mileena/Baraka/Reptile/Subzero/Reiko/Smoke/Tanya/Raiden/Havik exist that have specials that low profile projectiles or are teleports but they can be baited and punished with the exception of Raiden.

I think SZ completely negating zoning for 7 seconds is wild. Especially since it's an ambush assist I honestly didnt think would keep his armor the same after seeing him in the KK or that they would've at least changed it to infinite armor against projectiles instead of just invincibility.

Zoners have some good options to cover several of their needs.

Only have high projectiles?
Kunglao/Stryker/Kano/Frost

Need to establish pressure on wakeup?
Sektor/Stryker/Kano/Cyrax

Need to confirm off your stray projectile hits?
Goro/Scorpion

Need to make your zoning safe?
Subzero/Motaro/Stryker/Sektor

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Why?

She has a full-screen teleport that has the ability to go through fireballs when timed properly. She is usually paired with Sareena, Sektor, or Kung Lao so she has full-screen options. Besides, dark stance has an underrated projectile that can be utilized to win zoning wars if you have a life lead.

Speaking of projectiles, light stance d,f+1 is godlike at mid range. Standing 2 and f+2 are exceptional buttons. She has such an effective mid-screen presence that even I can play footsies and win. LOL. The only normal attack that Reiko (from the perspective of a Reiko player) has over Ashrah is d+4, which has more range.

However, unlike Reiko, Ashrah deals significantly more damage. About 45% per touch with Sareena.

Also, what is going on with EN Astral Projection (i.e., EX b,f+2)? Does the move have impenetrable armor on startup?

Top tier privileges.

I doubt that this game is anywhere near as balanced as the community believes. I think that the more people play the game the more evident the gap between the top tier and low tier characters will become.

Can she dash through Shang's triple fireball at Fullscreen?

 

[rifraf]

I dont think zoning suffers too much here.

I don't think zoning suffers at all. There are lots of characters that can zone quite effectively.
It's just that some players want to play with a character archetype with a toolset that is able to zone 24/7. As already stated, it can be an oppressive playstyle, even unfun for the opponent if not designed well but it is valid.

A character with such toolset will probably be introduced at some point in the future, this game has the capacity for a character like that to exist to a certain extent imo. Idk how far they can push it since there's no "Shake" in the game and character movement is not MK9 fast, but that's up to the developers to strike a fun balance. In the end of the day, we should have realistic expectations in what we want and what's possible.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

I miss shake so much, Smoke went from premier anti zoning to being a mid tier gimmick bag. Motaro has a proj parry but i want it to hit me and boom i teleport on your head

 

[M2Dave]

Zoners have some good options to cover several of their needs.

Only have high projectiles?
Kunglao/Stryker/Kano/Frost

Need to establish pressure on wakeup?
Sektor/Stryker/Kano/Cyrax

Need to confirm off your stray projectile hits?
Goro/Scorpion

Need to make your zoning safe?
Subzero/Motaro/Stryker/Sektor

Only one of those "needs" (i.e., pressure on wakeup) is currently relevant to the game's meta.

I can easily think of six gameplay aspects that are significantly more important than zoning in this game.

• high damage output with or without meter
• chip damage and meter building
• safe, armored launcher
• ability to combo from back throws
• set play, especially that breaks armor
• quality of pokes, strings, and jumping attacks

The ideal example at this moment is Sonic Fox's Rain. As a base character, Rain is clearly below average, but with Cyrax, he checks lots of the boxes outlined above. Rain has damaging meter-less combos (i.e., about 33%). Obviously, he has chip damage and meter building thanks to the kopter chopper. Enhanced close geyser is an armored launcher that does around 20% of damage. He can combo from a back throw and has set play in the corner, including an apparently unavoidable throw loop that Sonic Fox discovered a couple of days ago.

Ironically, Rain's zoning, albeit advertised as a "premier" on stream, is the character's least effective gameplay element and strategy. There are characters like Liu Kang, Reiko, and Shang Tsung who have superior projectiles, but ironically yet again, Rain may end up being better than them. The reason being is that he has access to options that are relevant to the game's current meta, of which zoning is not one.

There is no reason to discuss Baraka and Cage, arguably the two best characters in the game, and how they play and win, which ought to be self-explanatory. In a fighting game like Mortal Kombat 9, they would have to close the gap and earn their way in. In this game, they get in for free because the zoning is weak.

Can she dash through Shang's triple fireball at Fullscreen?

No.

You cannot dash through low hat either. However, I honestly could not care less.

The players who try to zone and lame me out on Kombat League only for me to hit them with a 45% combo and then zone and lame them out in return make me laugh.

I miss shake so much, Smoke went from premier anti zoning to being a mid tier gimmick bag. Motaro has a proj parry but i want it to hit me and boom i teleport on your head.

I still have PTSD because of shake, and I also believe that you Smoke fools are downplaying. The character is good.

I feel like the number one mistake that players make in this game is picking non-optimized or worthless kameos.

 

[rifraf]

I miss shake so much, Smoke went from premier anti zoning to being a mid tier gimmick bag. Motaro has a proj parry but i want it to hit me and boom i teleport on your head

Mid tier gimmick bag That's harsh man.

Smoke used to be one of main characters in MK9. I loved the hate messages I still haven't played him much in MK1, he's a bit different but also very cool. I hope I like him when I finally decide to learn him.

 

[rifraf]

Only one of those "needs" (i.e., pressure on wakeup) is currently relevant to the game's meta.

I can easily think of six gameplay aspects that are significantly more important than zoning in this game.

• high damage output with or without meter
• chip damage and meter building
• safe, armored launcher
• ability to combo from back throws
• set play, especially that breaks armor
• quality of pokes, strings, and jumping attacks

The ideal example at this moment is Sonic Fox's Rain. As a base character, Rain is clearly below average, but with Cyrax, he checks lots of the boxes outlined above. Rain has damaging meter-less combos (i.e., about 33%). Obviously, he has chip damage and meter building thanks to the kopter chopper. Enhanced close geyser is an armored launcher that does around 20% of damage. He can combo from a back throw and has set play in the corner, including an apparently unavoidable throw loop that Sonic Fox discovered a couple of days ago.

Ironically, Rain's zoning, albeit advertised as a "premier" on stream, is the character's least effective gameplay element and strategy. There are characters like Liu Kang, Reiko, and Shang Tsung who have superior projectiles, but ironically yet again, Rain may end up being better than them. The reason being is that he has access to options that are relevant to the game's current meta, of which zoning is not one.

There is no reason to discuss Baraka and Cage, arguably the two best characters in the game, and how they play and win, which ought to be self-explanatory. In a fighting game like Mortal Kombat 9, they would have to close the gap and earn their way in. In this game, they get in for free because the zoning is weak.



No.

You cannot dash through low hat either. However, I honestly could not care less.

The players who try to zone and lame me out on Kombat League only for me to hit them with a 45% combo and then zone and lame them out in return make me laugh.



I still have PTSD because of shake, and I also believe that you Smoke fools are downplaying. The character is good.

I feel like the number one mistake that players make in this game is picking non-optimized or worthless kameos.

What character where you playing in MK9 before Freddy and Kenshi?

 

[M2Dave]

What character where you playing in MK9 before Freddy and Kenshi?

Pre-patch Kano when he had the safe up ball.

I never used Kenshi. I sucked ass with him.

 

[rifraf]

Pre-patch Kano when he had the safe up ball.

I never used Kenshi. I sucked ass with him.

Kano, for MK9 standards had a pretty limited toolset. Especially compared to someone like Freddy.

What's the equivalent of Kano in terms of playstyle in MK1? Does Reiko come close?

 

[M2Dave]

Kano, for MK9 standards had a pretty limited toolset. Especially compared to someone like Freddy.

Yes, but when Kano was good (i.e., safe up ball and better knives), characters like Freddy and Kenshi were not in the game.

What's the equivalent of Kano in terms of playstyle in MK1? Does Reiko come close?

I would say so.

The issue is that Reiko (Darrius as the kameo aside) does very low damage. He does around 33% of damage with one bar while all the top tier characters do 45% or more.

 

[NHDR]

I would say Reiko is more Commando Kano from MKX.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

I still have PTSD because of shake, and I also believe that you Smoke fools are downplaying. The character is good.

2009 is far away but Freddy Smoke felt fair to me, some would switch to the rushdown and dominate . You would go spikes 3x to keep full screen but other FKs would do the combo that leaves me close, bait wakeup and rinse repeat not blocking low no matter how many sweeps and d3 i spammed. Shake didnt work on the floor spikes only the glove and green drops

 

[rifraf]

safe up ball and better knives

I completely forgot pre-nerf Kano existed. His safe upball combined with the terrible netcode at the time, made him absolutely impossible to deal with. If it wasn't for online, he would be fine pre-nerf.

He does around 33% of damage with one bar while all the top tier characters do 45% or more.

I can't speak about Reiko, but that's what I see is the case with the majority of the cast. I truly hope they don't start nerfing stuff out of the game instead of trying buffing characters up first. The top tier doesn't seem super crazy to me, yet.

 

[skahwt]

It looks like OmniMan has some anti-zoning tools.

 

[SaltShaker]

It looks like OmniMan has some anti-zoning tools.

Funny how the conversation above is about the ultimate anti-zoning move Smoke's Shake from MK9 only for OmniMan to pop in the trailer like "hmm that sounds like a good move to use in MK1".

 

[Pan1cMode]

Maybe Quan will be a traditional zoner?

At the moment, characters can zone, and some can do more than others, but no one can zone all match.

In terms of just pure zoning

• kitana
• Shang tsung
• Li Mei
• Reiko

They probably have the best projectile zoning toolkit with specific Kameos. Not to say they’re the strongest, just that they have the strongest projectile zoning.