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MK1 Tier List Discussion Thread

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Sub zero and (arguably) Reptile are right there with him, imo. Closely followed by Shao
Agreed with Sub, Rep and Rain (for now). Shao seems to be mid though not bottom 5 or anything. But yeah, it’s still early so everything can change. I just hope they buff the weaker characters instead of heavily nerfing the top characters. I wouldn’t necessarily mind the top getting nerfed, just don’t gut them. I don’t use any of the top characters yet anyway, but I just can’t stand tier shifting and also people putting a lot of time into characters only for them to get nerfed into unviableness. Just hoping NRS takes a better approach this time around and allows every character to be as good as Baraka, Kenshi, Cage and Raiden.
¯\(ツ)
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Agreed with Sub, Rep and Rain (for now). Shao seems to be mid though not bottom 5 or anything. But yeah, it’s still early so everything can change. I just hope they buff the weaker characters instead of heavily nerfing the top characters. I wouldn’t necessarily mind the top getting nerfed, just don’t gut them. I don’t use any of the top characters yet anyway, but I just can’t stand tier shifting and also people putting a lot of time into characters only for them to get nerfed into unviableness. Just hoping NRS takes a better approach this time around and allows every character to be as good as Baraka, Kenshi, Cage and Raiden.
¯\(ツ)
They nerfed beta Sub, who already wasn't as good as Kenshi or Cage, I hope for they don't gut anyone either, but I genuinely think some of these characters are fucked.
 

projectzero00

nomnomnom
I think the top 5 actually ARE obvious, well at least the top 4. Every single person has had the same top 4 just in different order. And that is Kenshi, Baraka, Raiden and Cage. I think it’s pretty clear these characters are the best in the game. Baraka might even end up being #1 honestly. He’s so oppressive with his pressure, and that pressure does a ton of chip. And when he does land a hit he’s taking half your life in one combo (that only costs 1 bar of meter I believe with Cyrax Kameo). And he can combo off his throw. He can completely bypass neutral too. That said, one of the things that makes him OP is Cyrax. He’s still top 5 without Cyrax but I think Cyrax may very well put him at #1 until people start finding legitimate answers to him.

But the rest are definitely up in the air at the moment.
Couldn't have said it better. Kenshi, Raiden, Cage are really hard to deal with but from a personal experience, there's definitely ways you can work around them. Baraka is the only one I literally can't do shit against. He's so frustratingly safe no matter what he does.
 

santanabar

Apprentice
Sub zero and (arguably) Reptile are right there with him, imo. Closely followed by Shao
Subzero has low damage and his clone pretty weak, Reptile is pretty basic, both feel underwhelming.

But Rain is in a whole other level, he is just incomplete. His buttons suck, his special moves are either bad or useless. I don't care he is low tier, the real problem is that it seems he wasn't even tested. Portals are terrible, his projectiles and shield are ass, and whirlpool setups are countered by delay wakeup.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Subzero has low damage and his clone pretty weak, Reptile is pretty basic, both feel underwhelming.

But Rain is in a whole other level, he is just incomplete. His buttons suck, his special moves are either bad or useless. I don't care he is low tier, the real problem is that it seems he wasn't even tested. Portals are terrible, his projectiles and shield are ass, and whirlpool setups are countered by delay wakeup.
I can maybe get behind this, Rain is the only character I get excited to see that my opponent is using.
 

Eji1700

Kombatant
Ketchup and Mustard did a tier list on stream. Short version-

S- Kenshi/Johnny/Baraka/Shang/Raiden

B- Shao/Nitara
C- Sub

A/A+ - Everyone else.

I mostly agree except for the use of S as a tier, since again to me S is something like ST Akuma who's breaking the fucking game, and no one is that good.

Maybe i'm just seeing different matches because I've been watching streams since I haven't had time to grind, but Rain looks viable? He's not a zoner for sure, but he's all about weird setups/mixups that are a pain in the ass to deal with. Yes you can delay wakeup those setups, but he has counterplay to that too? Keeps him out of top tier but doesn't make him trash?
 

Felipe_Gewehr

Twinktile
Ketchup and Mustard did a tier list on stream. Short version-

S- Kenshi/Johnny/Baraka/Shang/Raiden

B- Shao/Nitara
C- Sub

A/A+ - Everyone else.

I mostly agree except for the use of S as a tier, since again to me S is something like ST Akuma who's breaking the fucking game, and no one is that good.

Maybe i'm just seeing different matches because I've been watching streams since I haven't had time to grind, but Rain looks viable? He's not a zoner for sure, but he's all about weird setups/mixups that are a pain in the ass to deal with. Yes you can delay wakeup those setups, but he has counterplay to that too? Keeps him out of top tier but doesn't make him trash?
Interesting position for Shang... I'd probably swap him with Ashrah, but I have a hunch there is indeed lots of potential for him to be high up there. Also, agree on Rain, Im not yet convinced he is Sub Zero levels of bad.
 

NHDR

Kombatant
in MK1 you have 23 characters and 15 kameos that form 345 possible teams, equaling roughly 60000 matchups. looking forward to people grinding out a legitimate tier list :laughing:
CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

Not really, fuck that. Too much work, lolz.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
imo Lao is scratching at the door of top 5, and people are sleeping on Tanya
I think for Tanya a big issue is lack of people using her. I’ve only seen a couple randoms use her and all they seemed to be doing was spamming her spinning glowing nunchuck move. Have yet to see a good one yet.

Unfortunately though, for right now, the top 4 seem so strong that you’re making a mistake not learning these characters (Baraka, Kenshi, Raiden, Cage). That doesn’t mean you’re making a mistake if you aren’t using these characters, but you are if you aren’t learning them and then learning the MU against your main. One of the quicker ways to help you learn a MU is to learn that specific character to see what they can and can’t do, what is a low/mid/overhead, what’s plus, negative, safe, unsafe, etc.
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
Unfortunately though, for right now, the top 4 seem so strong that you’re making a mistake not learning these characters (Baraka, Kenshi, Raiden, Cage). That doesn’t mean you’re making a mistake if you aren’t using these characters, but you are if you aren’t learning them and then learning the MU against your main. One of the quicker ways to help you learn a MU is to learn that specific character to see what they can and can’t do, what is a low/mid/overhead, what’s plus, negative, safe, unsafe, etc.
^This!
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War-

"True, but unfortunately if you know WHAT to do but your skills are shit you are still probably fucked." -Me, Taking these lessons to heart but failing miserably. Sun Tzu, I have disappointed you yet again -
 
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00001

Guest
I see a lot of people unsure about Tanya and I'd just like to say I think she's really really strong. I feel so bad for the dudes I'm fighting on knockdown, her b3 string blows up so much armor and it's safe at -6. Not only will it break slow armor moves but it's so low to the ground that it also low profiles a few (sorry I don't remember specifics rn). Certain knockdowns like 122 allow for her f211 multihit to hit meaty which just shreds everything, and you're gonna hit that string a lot because the second hits are two very staggerable mids and her backthrow is loopable and leaves them at b3 and f2 range. F2 is such a crazy button, big stagger mindgame and you can keep blockstrings going with Goro. She's a strike throw character with a really nasty knockdown game and fullscren combo potential. Also projectile is deceptively safe, although it won't win you many zoning wars. Would love to hear what other people think of the character
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
I mostly agree except for the use of S as a tier, since again to me S is something like ST Akuma who's breaking the fucking game, and no one is that good.
I agree with this so much - ultimately its just semantics but the meaning of S tier has really changed over time from "this character breaks the game and has no losing matchups" to just "these characters are the meta." A tier (or even A+) should be the meta, S is for the actual broken characters - it's not really possible for so many characters to be in that tier together.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
I agree with this so much - ultimately its just semantics but the meaning of S tier has really changed over time from "this character breaks the game and has no losing matchups" to just "these characters are the meta." A tier (or even A+) should be the meta, S is for the actual broken characters - it's not really possible for so many characters to be in that tier together.
S tier never has really meant that in MK games. S tier is reserved for the top characters in MK games. But at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter if it’s called S or A+ or whatever. That said, A+ wouldn’t really fit the top 4 characters in this game right now imo. As they seem to be clearly better than the rest atm. Which is why I don’t want to put a 5th character with Raka, Cage, Kenshi and Raiden. There’s characters that can potentially be close, but these 4, again, at least for right now, seem to be the best characters in the game.
 

bmoee1

Noob
If they don’t nerf Kung Laos kameo, I think shang tsung will be elite once people learn how to use him. He has good pressure with the low hat and can do some serious damage full screen. His buttons may suck mid range but he still has a lot going for himself.
 

Eji1700

Kombatant
S tier never has really meant that in MK games. S tier is reserved for the top characters in MK games. But at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter if it’s called S or A+ or whatever. That said, A+ wouldn’t really fit the top 4 characters in this game right now imo. As they seem to be clearly better than the rest atm. Which is why I don’t want to put a 5th character with Raka, Cage, Kenshi and Raiden. There’s characters that can potentially be close, but these 4, again, at least for right now, seem to be the best characters in the game.
Eh i disagree. Personally, i see S- or something like that as the metaknight or mk9 kabal tier, where maybe you can leave them in, but they're warping the entire game and not picking them isn't just preference but likely a mistake.

A+ should absolutely be "these are the best in the game", but I don't think any of them MUST be nerfed or are unhealthy for the meta. You're still seeing a ton of people playing other characters right now and there's a bunch of tech to still find.

And as for the semantics, it's just dumb to use S as "oh these guys are good", because as the meta's get worse and worse you wind up with all sorts of stupid nonsense as people make up even more shit (SS, SSS, EXS+ALPHAEXTENDEXLATEWITH2PUMPSANDACOKE). The "A is for good but not broken" mindset is never going to catch simply because the thumbnail view economy demands you have a shocked expression looking at the highest letter possible, but it's so dumb that every single list has it's own internal metric.

Hell LordKnight claimed he's not using letters at all anymore for his lists for similar reasons. If you want clickbait its fine but if you actually want to have a useful discussion with other people you need to be on the same page, and that works way better.
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
I want to stress I just shared his tier list for the sake of it. I watched two of his newest videos....and got reminded why I stopped fucking with him.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Eh i disagree. Personally, i see S- or something like that as the metaknight or mk9 kabal tier, where maybe you can leave them in, but they're warping the entire game and not picking them isn't just preference but likely a mistake.

A+ should absolutely be "these are the best in the game", but I don't think any of them MUST be nerfed or are unhealthy for the meta. You're still seeing a ton of people playing other characters right now and there's a bunch of tech to still find.

And as for the semantics, it's just dumb to use S as "oh these guys are good", because as the meta's get worse and worse you wind up with all sorts of stupid nonsense as people make up even more shit (SS, SSS, EXS+ALPHAEXTENDEXLATEWITH2PUMPSANDACOKE). The "A is for good but not broken" mindset is never going to catch simply because the thumbnail view economy demands you have a shocked expression looking at the highest letter possible, but it's so dumb that every single list has it's own internal metric.

Hell LordKnight claimed he's not using letters at all anymore for his lists for similar reasons. If you want clickbait its fine but if you actually want to have a useful discussion with other people you need to be on the same page, and that works way better.
You’re free to make your lists however you want to. But it really doesn’t matter anywhere near what you’re making it out to be. You could use the letter “Z” or “O” instead of “S”, or instead of “A+”, etc. And yes, some people don’t even use letters because, again, it literally doesn’t matter. Unless specifically stated otherwise, the top tier characters are, ya know, at the top of the tiers. The letters we use are arbitrary but they’ve been largely agreed upon and there’s a consensus there, which is why they’re still used the same way today. And that consensus, at least for NRS games, tends to be S, A+, A, B, etc.

To put it in another way, if someone’s tier list is “S, A+, A, B, C”, if it makes you feel better you can change the letters if you’d like to something like “A+, A, B+, B, C” (or whatever else) but it wouldn’t be changing anything. At that point you’d just be arguing for the sake of it. Because it’s a completely pointless argument that nobody actually cares about, lol.