Sub Zero Issues

[Crathen]

The real problem of Subs rushdown is that he lacks a decently fast special mid and a normal with decent range.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Not on block it isn't.

No duh

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The real problem of Subs rushdown is that he lacks a decently fast special mid and a normal with decent range.

what? d4 is plenty ranged....
the problem is that the characters that he needs to stay on top of.... the 2 whiffs... so he can't really stay on top of them. If it didn't whiff and hit all crouch boxes... he could at least give himself setups to keep those characters close.

 

[Dann]

a simple way to stay out of the corner is to use the ex teleport when you are getting close to the corner as a way to switch sides. Also can you just ex teleport when you hear the ice clone come out in the corner? Pretty much you have to anticipate when sub zero will attack and use the teleport effectively. Sub zero rapes almost every character in the corner not just sektor. Its definitely a tough match up but i don't think is in sub zeros favor. Sub zero always has to get in on sector. instead of backing away flamethrower you should anticipate him dashing and check him with b3 or b1. I think there's more things you could have tried. Sektor does not suck and is definitely not 7-3 in subs favor.

 

[salvificblood]

Yeah, Sub has a 9 frame standing 2 and an 8 frame d4 which has really solid range and amazing recovery. If only those were his biggest weaknesses.

 

[PND_Mustard]

No duh

you cant hitconfirm a d4 into UM and you just admitted it sucks on block, so i dont see how d4 into UM could possibly be 'great'

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

@STH

Take your own advice...abuse the shit out of it! We are talking about subzero aren't we? He has a big hitbox.

And I'm pretty sure he was pressuring with 12...is 1 a high? You should be able to poke him out...I'm not sure

Sub seems to have a medium hit box. The 4 on the b34 will whiff on him if not done at the perfect space. Also 12 whiffs on him 100% of the time. People like Raiden and Kenshi have high hit boxes and the 4 on b34 will never whiff from any space. So this leads me to believe he doesn't have a high hit box.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

D4 on hit into dash 12 will hit from the right distance on sub...bottom line.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

D4 on hit into dash 12 will hit from the right distance on sub...bottom line.

No. Block low, even if the 1 jails from the d4 being hit (which it doesn't 100%) the 2 will still whiff. This allows for at least an uppercut or poke. The only way it seems to make the standing 1 hit on Sub while blocking low is to go in training mode and just do 1 - dash 1 - dash 1 - dash 1 really fast. In a real match that will get beat out by pokes amongst other more serious things.

I'm done trying to argue otherwise, it seems pointless.

 

[Crathen]

what? d4 is plenty ranged....
the problem is that the characters that he needs to stay on top of.... the 2 whiffs... so he can't really stay on top of them. If it didn't whiff and hit all crouch boxes... he could at least give himself setups to keep those characters close.

d4 isnt a combo starter , d4 has a decent horizzontal hitbox ( but not vertical ) with sweep range , on block you're at 0 frames with pushback and on crouching hit you're at +5 iirc so you can still duck 21 / 22 , i mean d4 is good but doesnt prevent jumps and it can be whiff punished by many characters.

I stand by my words he lacks a fast special mid with horizzontal and vertical range , also asking for 2 ( wich starts a hitconfirmable string , anti airs and it's 9 frames ) to hit all crouching states is not a great suggestion it would be kinda too much good.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

No. Block low, even if the 1 jails from the d4 being hit (which it doesn't 100%) the 2 will still whiff. This allows for at least an uppercut or poke. The only way it seems to make the standing 1 hit on Sub while blocking low is to go in training mode and just do 1 - dash 1 - dash 1 - dash 1 really fast. In a real match that will get beat out by pokes amongst other more serious things.

I'm done trying to argue otherwise, it seems pointless.

Ok then don't ask for advice then if you can't take advice. D4 is a great tool for sektor and that is part of your problem...you have poor footsies.

You lose cause you have poor footsies and with the use of d4 and other tools you can successfully beat subzero, and stay out of the corner. I'm not saying its the only thing you did wrong but you played defensively the whole time and got put in the corner for it.

This argument is pointless cause you refuse to listen to the advice people give you

 

[Fatality_check]

After 21 on block, can't Sektor poke before sub can d4?

 

[Crathen]

After 21 on block, can't Sektor poke before sub can d4?

Yes he can d1 wich will beat anything Sub tries to do ( d3 , d4 , 21 , throw , cross jump ) or d3 wich will randomly win vs d3 but will beat all the other options ( exept crossjump ) but Sub can still 212 or 214 but he can't confirm it with iceball so it's a guessing game and if either of those 2 strings are blocked sub loses pressure.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Ok then don't ask for advice then if you can't take advice. D4 is a great tool for sektor and that is part of your problem...you have poor footsies.

You lose cause you have poor footsies and with the use of d4 and other tools you can successfully beat subzero, and stay out of the corner. I'm not saying its the only thing you did wrong but you played defensively the whole time and got put in the corner for it.

This argument is pointless cause you refuse to listen to the advice people give you

STH seemed to take the advice Mustard and i gave him. You were advising he did D4,UM that alone is pretty bad advice (i'm not being a jerk)

I can vouch for him when the 1,2 still has a chance of wiffing as it happens to me to. Don't confuse him not taking advice with him stating why he thinks the advice you gave was a bad idea.

 

[Fatality_check]

So hankey could have d1 sub every time he blocked 21. Because that sub was doing 21, d4/21, 21 a lot when sub's pressure could have been stopped with a d1.

 

[IKizzLE]

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANG!

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

STH seemed to take the advice Mustard and i gave him. You were advising he did D4,UM that alone is pretty bad advice (i'm not being a jerk)

I can vouch for him when the 1,2 still has a chance of wiffing as it happens to me to. Don't confuse him not taking advice with him stating why he thinks the advice you gave was a bad idea.

Exactly. I'm extremely frustrated lately with a few people who keep saying I'm doing things wrong then give me even worse advice. I'll just make sure to PM people like Ketchup/Mustard next time instead of making it public.

Thank you as well Crathen.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

So hankey could have d1 sub every time he blocked 21. Because that sub was doing 21, d4/21, 21 a lot when sub's pressure could have been stopped with a d1.

The reason I didn't was because I respect the option of him finishing his string too much. This was me not adjusting to his game fast enough.

Once doing this though this will really help me not get pushed to the corner. Blocking all those d4's move you back quite a bit.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Telling someone to use d4 for footsies isn't bad advice. It just wasn't what you were looking for. What ever man

 

[PPJ]

d4~close upmissile is good to throw out every once in a while...