Ashrah General Discussion

[kabelfritz]

1. You are looking at it being cancelled. Both versions do this..... So once again I ask. Why would I use the light form dash? Better yet, why would you use the light form dash over the dark form dash based on what you've seen?
2. .... Why would I risk whiffing the follow up in light form when I can be in dark form and just not have to risk it? Watch it whiff at 3:21. You just got punished cause you whiffed it.
3. No, I am not thinking its a pressure tool. The dark dash does the same thing with the fast follow up. Even better, I can just use the slow follow up of the dark dash and get a punish since you can react almost immediately after you teleport. At that point, look back at point 2.
4. Both versions of the fast follow up switch sides. Once again, Dark has a better list going for it....
5. The normal at 3:16. Even in the case of that being a high, she still has another string with a similar range that is slightly slower due to having another normal before it. If that normal is a mid, the projectile lost what little use it had. The projectile startup is very reactable and we've seen that kameos can eat hits. That move will literally be suicide on use. You saw her uppercut right? Why would I ever risk using that projectile?

1. You arent using the light projectile to zone because it goes nowhere and its far too slow.
2. You arent using it on reaction for anti-airs because its too slow and any of her launches look to do a better job.
3. You arent using it as a poke/spacing because its too slow and you have the normal at 3:16

Why would I use the light form for anything other than cashing out????

Even foxy said the dark form just looks better. The light form offers nothing that you dont already get access too with your normals besides letting you cash out on dark stacks. If you've looked at the breakdown 5 times, I need you to look another 30 cause you clearly we are seeing different things. How do you fail to see the redundancies here? This is why I mentioned changing the light dash to be something else because its spot is already taken. It spawning a ghost at said location instead of teleporting you and allowing your specials to interact with it would give you a reason to be in light mode and a reason to swap besides cashing out dark stacks for damage.

Allowing the light dash to spawn a ghost also means you can actually allows you to bait them better since they wouldnt want you to setup for reasons stated in my OG post. This would also give the projectile an actual use besides being a glorified reaction checker since it passing through the ghost would extend the range. This obviously comes with weaknesses since you have to setup the clone in light form and then have enough of an advantage to swap forms.

i dont know if you understand that you can only use dark dash in dark stance and light dash in light stance. same goes for all other dark/light moves. and as you correctly stated, dark stance is timed so you will not always be in it. dark stance is supposed to be stronger for that very reason, similar to injustice raven (which i mained btw).

about the projectile, it travels 2/3 of the screen, it just gets smaller, similar to sub-zeros ice barrage or whatever its called. that 3:16 normal is 99% a high, and travels about 1/3 of the screen. i'm not saying the projectile great and surely not that it will be dominant, but i can see its situational uses

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

i dont know if you understand that you can only use dark dash in dark stance and light dash in light stance. same goes for all other dark/light moves. and as you correctly stated, dark stance is timed so you will not always be in it. dark stance is supposed to be stronger for that very reason, similar to injustice raven (which i mained btw).

about the projectile, that 3:16 normal is 99% a high, so it doesnt cover ducking like the projectile would. btw this part of the discussion is way too intricate for our level of knowledge right now.

The lore we know right now dictates that dark being stronger woudlnt make sense. She is almost purified here with the only remaining demonic part being her face....

Obviously we wouldnt know. I am simply placing my concerns for the reasons already stated.

"i dont know if you understand that you can only use dark dash in dark stance and light dash in light stance. "
Did you really just ask this question? Is this a prank?

The normal being a high gives more of a reason to use the light projectile but the amount she moves forward is very close if not the same distance the projectile goes. Did you miss the massive leap she took before actually stabbing? The speed on the projectile is disgustingly slow and based on what we've seen so far from all the cast, will have little if any use beyond the first week.

Edit: I didnt even realize at first but the fact you assume the dark mode is suppose to be better only further plays into my point. It was never stated if it was suppose to be better but that fact you see it that way is damning... They did however state that you should be switching between forms which would imply some sort of reason to flip between them but clearly I dont see that and neither do you.

 

[kabelfritz]

The lore we know right now dictates that dark being stronger woudlnt make sense. She is almost purified here with the only remaining demonic part being her face....

Obviously we wouldnt know. I am simply placing my concerns for the reasons already stated.

"i dont know if you understand that you can only use dark dash in dark stance and light dash in light stance. "
Did you really just ask this question? Is this a prank?

The normal being a high gives more of a reason to use the light projectile but the amount she moves forward is very close if not the same distance the projectile goes. Did you miss the massive leap she took before actually stabbing? The speed on the projectile is disgustingly slow and based on what we've seen so far from all the cast, will have little if any use beyond the first week.

Edit: I didnt even realize at first but the fact you assume the dark mode is suppose to be better only further plays into my point. It was never stated if it was suppose to be better but that fact you see it that way is damning...

if you do understand that you can only use light specials in light stance and dark specials in dark stance, nothing you say makes a sense. because every time you ask "why would i use light dash?", the answer is "because you are not in dark stance, likely because you didnt have a chance to activate it yet".

the high: no she doesnt take a leap. she walks a half step before inputting the command. just compare the range to the whiffed light projectile at 1:53. the projectile range is more than double, almost 3 dashes compared to a little more than one.

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

The lore we know right now dictates that dark being stronger woudlnt make sense. She is almost purified here with the only remaining demonic part being her face....

Obviously we wouldnt know. I am simply placing my concerns for the reasons already stated.

"i dont know if you understand that you can only use dark dash in dark stance and light dash in light stance. "
Did you really just ask this question? Is this a prank?

The normal being a high gives more of a reason to use the light projectile but the amount she moves forward is very close if not the same distance the projectile goes. Did you miss the massive leap she took before actually stabbing? The speed on the projectile is disgustingly slow and based on what we've seen so far from all the cast, will have little if any use beyond the first week.

Edit: I didnt even realize at first but the fact you assume the dark mode is suppose to be better only further plays into my point. It was never stated if it was suppose to be better but that fact you see it that way is damning... They did however state that you should be switching between forms which would imply some sort of reason to flip between them but clearly I dont see that and neither do you.

The reason to flip between them is because she consumes dark stacks to deal more damage in light stance. You start in light - switch to dark when you get the chance - switch back to light to finish them off.

Also, even if she does have advancing normals that rival the projectile's range, sometimes you don't want to get closer to the opponent. Vs heavy rushdown characters the projectile is probably a good tool to keep them in check as they try to approach you (but not good at full screen zoning because she's not meant to do that).

That's what I'm guessing with the information we have so far anyway. We'll only know for sure when we're playing her.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

if you do understand that you can only use light specials in light stance and dark specials in dark stance, nothing you say makes a sense. because every time you ask "why would i use light dash?", the answer is "because you are not in dark stance, likely because you didnt have a chance to activate it yet".

the high: no she doesnt take a leap. she walks a half step before inputting the command. just compare the range to the whiffed light projectile at 1:53

"because you are not in dark stance, likely because you didnt have a chance to activate it yet"

The forms are suppose to be different. Otherwise why would you ever switch. Based on Stephanie talking about wanting to swap between forms, one shouldnt be better than the other. They should both have their uses but as it stands right now. One is literally a better version than the other. Like are you ok? Last I checked I am speaking English here. Why is this so hard to grasp? You sound like you are just looking for reasons for it to be the way it is and looking at it in a vacuum rather than applying it in realistic situations.

As for the normal, that is a big ass step+her long ass sword. If it isnt the same range, its close. Still would be 100x more useful based on what we've seen so far.

I cant make it any clearer. I've said what I said. Good day.

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

Also, by the little we saw, I'm assuming dark stance should be better vs zoners. But again, that's just an assumption based on the few minutes of her gameplay we saw. We need more than that to reach any conclusions.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

The reason to flip between them is because she consumes dark stacks to deal more damage in light stance. You start in light - switch to dark when you get the chance - switch back to light to finish them off.

Also, even if she does have advancing normals that rival the projectile's range, sometimes you don't want to get closer to the opponent. Vs heavy rushdown characters the projectile is probably a good tool to keep them in check as they try to approach you (but not good at full screen zoning because she's not meant to do that).

That's what I'm guessing with the information we have so far anyway. We'll only know for sure when we're playing her.

"The reason to flip between them is because she consumes dark stacks to deal more damage in light stance. You start in light - switch to dark when you get the chance - switch back to light to finish them off."

Already stated this. This is irrelevant info. I am talking about the use cases for light dash vs dark dash. No reason to use light dash when you can just swap dark and use it. The issue is the swap but the risk of whiffing the follow up on light will most likely not be worth the risk and doesnt solve the fact one does the same thing but better.

"Also, even if she does have advancing normals that rival the projectile's range, sometimes you don't want to get closer to the opponent. Vs heavy rushdown characters the projectile is probably a good tool to keep them in check as they try to approach you (but not good at full screen zoning because she's not meant to do that)."

That projectile startup speed is HORRENDOUSLY slow. At that range, you are getting cooked by EVERYONE we've seen so far.

"That's what I'm guessing with the information we have so far anyway. We'll only know for sure when we're playing her."

Already stated.

 

[kabelfritz]

"because you are not in dark stance, likely because you didnt have a chance to activate it yet"

The forms are suppose to be different. Otherwise why would you ever switch. Based on Stephanie talking about wanting to swap between forms, one shouldnt be better than the other. They should both have their uses but as it stands right now. One is literally a better version than the other. Like are you ok? Last I checked I am speaking English here. Why is this so hard to grasp? You sound like you are just looking for reasons for it to be the way it is and looking at it in a vacuum rather than applying it in realistic situations.

As for the normal, that is a big ass step+her long ass sword. If it isnt the same range, its close. Still would be 100x more useful based on what we've seen so far.

I cant make it any clearer. I've said what I said. Good day.

dark stance doesnt stay forever. it has an activation with slow-ass startup and vanishes after 14 seconds in the stream demo. also, if you do damage with dark moves, you apply up to 3 darkness stacks to the opponent. when you damage them in light stance now, these stacks give you a damage bonus you wouldnt get in dark stance.

so her flow is to start in light stance, get up dark as quick as possible, do damage, return to light and cache out the damage stacks, repeat.

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

Already stated this. This is irrelevant info. I am talking about the use cases for light dash vs dark dash. No reason to use light dash when you can just swap dark and use it. The issue is the swap but the risk of whiffing the follow up on light will most likely not be worth the risk and doesnt solve the fact one does the same thing but better.

That projectile startup speed is HORRENDOUSLY slow. At that range, you are getting cooked by EVERYONE we've seen so far.

"That's what I'm guessing with the information we have so far anyway. We'll only know for sure when we're playing her."

Already stated.

The use case for the dash in light form is that you're in light form. Maybe they wanted her to have a dash on both forms, but they wanted dark form to be better at gap closing. I don't work at NRS so I don't know what their thought process was.

Also I really didn't think it was that slow considering the space it covers. But since you've made up your mind, I don't really want to talk in circles here.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Also, by the little we saw, I'm assuming dark stance should be better vs zoners. But again, that's just an assumption based on the few minutes of her gameplay we saw. We need more than that to reach any conclusions.

We've seen enough to make a pretty solid conclusion. I wouldnt be saying what I've said if I wasnt confident that the product wasnt going to change. I am saying what I am saying because I expect her to be in the same state release shinnok was in. If you remember anything about that then you know he had gaps in his playstyle and needed major buffs.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

dark stance doesnt stay forever. it has an activation with slow-ass startup and vanishes after 14 seconds in the stream demo. also, if you do damage with dark moves, you apply up to 3 darkness stacks to the opponent. when you damage them in light stance now, these stacks give you a damage bonus you wouldnt get in dark stance.

so her flow is to start in light stance, get up dark as quick as possible, do damage, return to light and cache out the damage stacks, repeat.

Pretty obvious points you're mentioning...

Not relevant to my point.

Why are you unable to understand what I am saying?

 

[zerosebaz]

Wow. This is really fun xD

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Wow. This is really fun xD

These kinds of discussion are a million times preferable than most shit in the leaks thread to be honest.

 

[kabelfritz]

Pretty obvious points you're mentioning...

Not relevant to my point.

Why are you unable to understand what I am saying?

because you dont make a sense. you repeat over and over that there is no point in using slow light dash over slow dark dash and everyone tells you that you use the one your current stance gives you. btw the whiffing is an execution error, you must do the fast one if you go behind and the light slow one if you go in front. (i assume that sending the ghost out is a stance move which can be cancelled with different buttons at any point, like fast, slow, cancel). then you say you could just swap stance, but you cant. stance switch is likely above 40 frames, but you already complain how slow the projectile is, which is probably ~22 frames (i know that because its almost identical to raidens mk11 lightning).

 

[zerosebaz]

These kinds of discussion are a million times preferable than most shit in the leaks thread to be honest.

The leaks thread? It doesn't ring a bell.
Oh, wait, you mean the Sonya thread, right?

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

These kinds of discussion are a million times preferable than most shit in the leaks thread to be honest.

None of what you said means anything BECAUSE they should be different from each other to that point you would have a reason to use each one. Right now, the only reason you would use the slow light version is because you are in light mode and you want to close the distance. THAT IS THE ISSUE. I dont care that each form gets a dash. THAT IS OK. I simply want light dash to have a different use case as the dark already does what it does. HENCE THE USE OF THE WORD REDUNDANCY.

I'm laughing at how this is not getting through because I cant explain it any clearer than this. Do you want me to invite you to discord so I can explain it to you through voice? I will do it, I dont mind. It is much better than this current back and forth we have now.

Yes, I know the stance switch is slow. I am simply mentioning the stance switch because of relevancy.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

because you dont make a sense. you repeat over and over that there is no point in using slow light dash over slow dark dash and everyone tells you that you use the one your current stance gives you. btw the whiffing is an execution error, you must do the fast one if you go behind and the light slow one if you go in front. (i assume that sending the ghost out is a stance move which can be cancelled with different buttons at any point, like fast, slow, cancel). then you say you could just swap stance, but you cant. stance switch is likely above 40 frames, but you already complain how slow the projectile is, which is probably ~22 frames (i know that because its almost identical to raidens mk11 lightning).

Here is my discord. I will gladly explain it to you and use the video to better describe it.

Pure Evil Vylon Sphere With Tits#0602

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

None of what you said means anything BECAUSE they should be different from each other to that point you would have a reason to use each one. Right now, the only reason you would use the slow light version is because you are in light mode and you want to close the distance. THAT IS THE ISSUE. I dont care that each form gets a dash. THAT IS OK. I simply want light dash to have a different use case as the dark already does what it does. HENCE THE USE OF THE WORD REDUNDANCY.

I'm laughing at how this is not getting through because I cant explain it any clearer than this. Do you want me to invite you to discord so I can explain it to you through voice? I will do it, I dont mind. It is much better than this current back and forth we have now.

Yes, I know the stance switch is slow. I am simply mentioning the stance switch because of relevancy.

Just pointing out that you might be quoting the wrong person lol

 

[kabelfritz]

None of what you said means anything BECAUSE they should be different from each other to that point you would have a reason to use each one. Right now, the only reason you would use the slow light version is because you are in light mode and you want to close the distance. THAT IS THE ISSUE. I dont care that each form gets a dash. THAT IS OK. I simply want light dash to have a different use case as the dark already does what it does. HENCE THE USE OF THE WORD REDUNDANCY.

I'm laughing at how this is not getting through because I cant explain it any clearer than this. Do you want me to invite you to discord so I can explain it to you through voice? I will do it, I dont mind. It is much better than this current back and forth we have now.

Yes, I know the stance switch is slow. I am simply mentioning the stance switch because of relevancy.

you probably wanted to quote me. and i tell you that its probably the point of the design that the light slow dash is not just redundant but also weaker (like most light specials) than the dark version - it's to create an incentive to go into dark stance. its not a design flaw but complete purpose and i think its good like that, because it creates dynamic gameplay, a constant back and forth between the stances.

and that leads back to your initial claim that her moveset doesnt make a sense and is directionless, while this discussion imo proves that the exact opposite is the case. the moveset is just not what you wish it to be.

and with that i think this discussion is concluded even though we dont agree, i think there is no more discord discussion necessary at this point.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Just pointing out that you might be quoting the wrong person lol

tyty

 

[Marlow]

i know that because its almost identical to raidens mk11 lightning

I'm getting a lot of MK11 Raiden vibes from her. Which doesn't bother me, I think she looks interesting.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Also, by the little we saw, I'm assuming dark stance should be better vs zoners. But again, that's just an assumption based on the few minutes of her gameplay we saw. We need more than that to reach any conclusions.

Simple way to put it.
Light Sstance it's an defensive Stance
Dark Stanceit's a offense one

Light Stance allows for projectiles that can't be ducked and cover a good portion of the screen
the astral projection and the strikes from it cannot be cancelled.

the Dark Stance, adds damage stacks to the opponent with each attack it lands while activated, which are cashed with light stance
Projectile in Dark Stance has to be aimed
also has a teleport without an attack that allows her to move from point A to B

 

[kabelfritz]

Simple way to put it.
Light Sstance it's an defensive Stance
Dark Stanceit's a offense one

Light Stance allows for projectiles that can't be ducked and cover a good portion of the screen
the astral projection and the strikes from it cannot be cancelled.

the Dark Stance, adds damage stacks to the opponent with each attack it lands while activated, which are cashed with light stance
Projectile in Dark Stance has to be aimed
also has a teleport without an attack that allows her to move from point A to B

light stance astral projection can be cancelled, see here:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[Eddy Wang]

light stance astral projection can be cancelled, see here:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Both stances do that, the cancel everyone is talking about it's the one where she swithes her body with the astral projection, the light stance can't do that.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I'm getting a lot of MK11 Raiden vibes from her. Which doesn't bother me, I think she looks interesting.

She was always a female Raiden/Kung Lao

Hope she gets some of her deception's grunts as well lmao