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MK2 Haters

M

MIKECALDWELL

Kombatant
Recently, i've been getting into several debates with UMK3 players about MK2. These particular guys seem to think that MK2 requires no skill, and that they could jump right in and hang with the best. One person was bragging about how he was good with the entire UMK3 roster. I told him I was the same with the MK2 roster, and he laughed at me and said "who doesn't know the MK2 roster". I offered to prove to him that he didn't know a single character in MK2 but he didn't bite. It took me at least 2 years to get to what I think is a high level in MK2, and this seems to be fairly consistent within the community. MK2 is a very strategic and psychological game, which in other words means boring to alot of guys. Every little bit of damage you inflict on your opponent is a hard earned, which some people don't have the patience for. I'll admit that i've talked shit about certain aspects of umk3, such as glitch jabs, but that doesn't mean I think the game requires no skill. I just wish everyone could appreciate MK1, 2, and 3 instead of bashing the ones that they can't compete in. I would also like to see more MK2 players supporting MK1 and UMK3 and vice versa, because we could all use more opponents in our respective games.
 
Tim Static

Tim Static

Adminerator
Lead Moderator
I think the issue is the people you are talking with, which dont seem to know as much as they think they do.

I love both games, but i do find MK2 to be unplayable to me on a serious level these days. too slow for me, too...i dunno. just dont enjoy it anymore. You are correct tho. Mk2 is more like chess.

And Mk2 (along with MK4) are the only MK's i've ever competed at a high level and won at, winning quite a bit of money back when the games were fresh in the arcades.

I also have no qualms about saying even to this day, in 2012, UMK3 is still the best MK ever made, and is the best MK for high level competitive play. No its the newest and shiniest of the MK's, but i also feel the same way about Super SF2 Turbo/SF3 Third Strike for SF and MvC2 for Marvel.

But you cant really compare MK2 to UMK3. Its apples and oranges. Both are fruits but totally different.
 
M

MIKECALDWELL

Kombatant
Tim Static
You're right. It was only a few particular guys that had these views. I don't think the UMK3 community as a whole thinks this way. I think both games are great, but I obviously enjoy MK2 more bc i'm good at it. I'm still learning UMK3, so getting 20 streaked by a great player can be a little frustrating but that comes with learning any fighting game. I wasn't really comparing the 2 games. I was just saying that MK2 requires a great deal of skill to be played at a high level and anyone that says otherwise is ignorant.
 
Konqrr

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Agree with OP.

gamemk, people only didn't do the instant air fireballs in the arcade because of the limitations of the shitty controls back then. I was using iAF on the UMK3 cabinet at SBR tournament back in October of 2010, but it was making my arm tired to do so because of the shitty sticks lol
 
M

MIKECALDWELL

Kombatant
gamemk
You are entitled to your opinion and it is an opinion just so you know. Instant air moves can be done with a stick so you're wrong there. I recently watched a MK9 video of someone( think it was perfectlegend) spamming ia fireballs with liu kang for nearly the entire match, so this is present even today. In MK2, a guy named Culongy is probably the best ia fireballer around, but I can beat him with just about every character on the roster. You're actually making my point from the original post. You're hating on the game because you can't compete at it. I get a message about once a week from random people telling me how after you lose you send a novel to the guy making excuses for why you lost.

I completely disagree regarding your feelings towards online players. Why wouldn't someone's online skills transfer to an offline setting? I would be better offline because of the reasons you stated. My point is that if someone is beating you online with a stable connection, then I would bet money they'll still beat you offline. Didn't an online player(Detroitballin) win a MK9 tourney recently at NEC? Nuff said.
 
M

MIKECALDWELL

Kombatant
gamemk
My intention for this thread wasn't to bring the haters out of the woodworks. If you dislike the game so much and have no interest in ever playing it, then just ignore the threads. Do you have an alert on your phone when someone makes a MK2 post even tho you could care less about the game?
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
gamemk said:
i'm a purist. i don't care if you or any of these online players can win games by doing instant air moves on pad.
show me these people doing, mgp, mbk, and ia anything on the original bat top mk2 cabinet/8-way gate (CONSISTENTLY).
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So you don't want evolution of a game, you just want it to plateau? Why would you want to limit the possibilities of a game by handicapping the player? Because it wasn't likely to happen back in the arcades? That's ridiculous logic.

It seems to me you're salty that new players have out-shined the old players. Don't take your ball and go home because we learned how to dunk on your ass, while you can only do lay-ups.
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
gamemk said:
are you claiming that online play and or the shitty port releases constitute evolution?
Click to expand...
I made no such claim. Evolution in the sense that players now have introduced new tactics or can do more technical thing. Anytime there's growth in any aspect, that's evolution.

gamemk said:
answer this question? is arena football the same as the nfl? should baseball "evolve" to allow for the usage of performance enhancing drugs? we all watched barry bonds shatter hank aaron's homerun record, but does anyone believe that he could have achieved the same feat without steroids?
Click to expand...
So you're equating using a pad to being on steroids? Or suggesting that the rules of MK2 or UMK3 are somehow different than they were back in the day? The rules have not changed, the abilities of the players have.

gamemk said:
being a purist doesn't mean that i am against new strategy. i just take issue with what constitutes legit play. for example, why doesn't evo just play online? they would make way more money, and more people would compete. why not allow people to use turbo options at evo?
Click to expand...
I'm positive you're trolling now. Online play is unreliable and garners too many variables. You cannot determine who is better through online play. Turbo isn't allowed because you would have an unfair advantage over other player(s). Using a pad as oppose to a stick isn't actually an objective advantage. Even though you see it that way.

gamemk said:
anyway, you can't realistically compare modern fighting games, that are designed with pad play in mind, to 20 year old fighting games which were never designed for consoles. i choose to accept the arcade cabinet, in its original state, meaning bat top/8-way gate sticks, as the only "official" way to compete in the game. that's the way it was designed.
Click to expand...
I'm not comparing MK2 or UMK3 to any new game. You choose to deny the fact that new players absolutely dominate the veterans. You're stuck in denial so you say that arcades are the only "true" way the game can be played competitively.

gamemk said:
by your logic, rapidfire/turbo buttons should be accepted. if you can't compete against someone using a turbo function or worse, then you should just deal with it, right? i would post damdai vs tokido in st, but i don't want to be seen as trolling. any guess as to what they're competing on? that's right, a cabinet.
Click to expand...
Again, not even in the same realm. In Earthrealm, a turbo controller gives you an inherent advantage over others, a pad doesn't. Not being able to do iAFB's on a stick is a personal problem, not one that applies to everyone. There's PLENTY of people who can do that today.

gamemk said:
forgive me if i would like to be able to enjoy the games how i remember them, not all choppy, laggy, vs pad players (many who probably sucked when the games were actually in their original form and relevant).
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I notice no choppiness or lag offline, dunno why you keep bringing up online like I've said anything about it.
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
gamemk said:
for example, what is your reasoning for excluding rapidfire/turbo pads if two players or a community agrees to use them? were this to happen, your advantage argument would cease as both players would have the same access to rapid inputs, thus eliminating any unfair advantage. one could argue that today's play might be further improved or "evolved" by the use of turbopads, and therefore, they should become the new standard, just as non-turbo pads, square gated sticks, and before them -bat top/octagonal gate sticks were accepted as standard. you don't accept rapidfire/turbo, because you choose not to, not because they couldn't be used. in your opinion, i assume, the use of rapidfire/turbo is not how the game SHOULD be played. that's similar to my opinion on pads, ports, and online.
Click to expand...
I knew you would ask this very question, and was going to respond to it before you even posted it. I just figured I'd actually let you ask it.

In the unlikely but possible case that turbo controllers were allowed, or two players are both using a turbo, my advantage argument ceases just as you said. But only because the circumstances have changed. Now you're proposing a straw man argument. My position about individuals evolving with the game isn't based on the fact that they're using tools that allow them to do that. Or rather, the tools they're using isn't the prime reason or a reason at all as to why they're performing the way they are. Using a pad doesn't provide the same or even close to the advantage that a turbo controller would. Advantage not in the sense of over another player, but advantage in relation to what you can actually do or what's possible within the game's mechanics. So when you propose that my position is the same as saying that if turbo's were accepted that I would say "adapt or go home", you're misrepresenting my claim. These two issues are completely different, even if they're about similar things.

gamemk said:
i'm not trolling. it's just a discussion. the internet, somehow, has convinced many people that anyone who shares an opposing/unfavorable opinion should be dismissed as a troll.
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And no, I didn't call you a troll for having an opposing opinion. Everyone would be a troll at some point if that were the case. I called you a troll because you asked why EVO doesn't hold their events online. Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said or responded to.
 
Owerbart

Owerbart

I miss you
I freakin' love mk2, and I'm never gonna get used to a running button. But still, I guess both games need a hell of skill. Maybe UMK3 players think that because they have a widest set of tools at their dispossal, choices are a little bit more of skill-requiring. But still, I have the belief that both games have so many years that we can already talk about both being treated as a science. And sciences tend to argue.

Cheers.
 
M

MIKECALDWELL

Kombatant
gamemk
Kanomk2 uses a stick for mk2. Have you seen him play? He uses all of the tactics that you claim are impossible on a stick. Don't most of the top UMK3 players use a stick? I see videos of these guys doing ia fireballs with kabal all the time. I don't understand your position on pad players having an advantage. It seems like from what i've seen, the majority of high level players at offline tourneys use a stick. This goes for UMK3 and MK9. You say that MK9 was designed to be best played on pad, yet the best players are using a stick. This would suggest that the stick players have an advantage over pad players. Otherwise, why would sponsored players not be using a pad to maximize their chances of getting paid? Have you not seen some of the unreal things some of these guys do with a stick in UMK3? There is no reason why they couldn't do the most complex juggles and ia moves in mk2 using the same stick. Btw, I did play in the arcades when I was 13. I use to go to the biggest mall in Tn, which had a very popular arcade. I reached noob several times against all of those grown ass men, so I know a thing or two about playing on a cabinet.
 
M

MIKECALDWELL

Kombatant
Well said Zaq. Analog + dpad is an unfair advantage. Moves like a foward walking spear shouldn't be possible even tho the cpu does it. This method only accounts for a couple of tricks tho. Crouching spears, fan lifts, superman, etc. can all be done with just the dpad. Can anyone confirm whether or not these crouching moves can be done on a stick?
 
aj1701

aj1701

Champion
I can't really add to the high level discussion points, but as a game goes I do like MK2 a lot more than UMK3. I just never really cared for the run button, I liked that MK2 was more like chess. Also, UMK3 is where they started to go too far down the goofy route. Also, I think the sound effects were perfect in MK2. The announcer there was the best, Raidens lightening effects had punch, and there was a lack of the ridiculous noises UMK3 characters made when running. :) Don't get me wrong, I do like UMK3 and its very fun, but MK2 was my favorite of the original 2D MKs.

To the OPs point of there being parts of the MK community that hate on MK2 or UMK3, that is just silly. All the 2D MK games are great, and if that stuff is going on it really should stop. We all love the same franchise!
 
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