This community is hypocritical.

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

@CrimsonShadow I agree with most of your points except...



My issue with how they handled the variation system was their communication about it was way too late. There was no discussion about anything other than custom variations until the very last minute. We had a stress test and a beta where we only played with custom variations and were never told that there’d be anything different.

To me, it felt like someone was trying to sell us something while hiding the fine print. And remember, we had to pre-order to play in the beta, so if you wanted to play in the beta, and there was no reason to assume customs wouldn’t be tournament legal (I’m still surprised they aren’t), then they had our buy-in before giving us these details.

Personally, I think the community has the right to be a little upset with how late this was communicated.

This was also my major breaking point that took all the wind out of the sails for me.
What the game was being built up as not matching the end result + the complete lack of transparency + casual-friendly meta on top of no filter for Ranked = have never had the same enthusiasm as I did with past titles.

I'm still trying. I love Mortal Kombat, I just spent like $60 on a new pad/converter to see if my frustration now is me or my controller, andthere's no sense in giving up before A. the whole roster has dropped, or B. we know whether or not variations will change or be done away with. I didn't find my main MAIN main in MKX until Leatherface, and it took over a year for that game to come close to it's final form. I will never be able to unsee how much they botched this version of the variations, but that does not mean they won't make things better eventually. There is still time.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I’m sorry but I don’t recall Boon discussing that beforehand... I’m not saying I don’t believe you, I just don’t remember it.

Yeah well, the evidence is out there:

• https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2019/jan/20/ed-boon-feels-mortal-kombat-11s-custom-variation-system-wont-work-competitive-scene-may-have-base-variations-purpose/
• https://www.gameinformer.com/interview/2019/01/17/ed-boon-talks-mortal-kombat-11s-variations-changes-and-roster

I posted about this at the time:

Overall thoughts on gameplay reveal?

Disappointed. Things I don't like: 1) The bar system. The split between offensive and defensive bars sucks. The fact that bars replenish automatically without needing to actually put work into them sucks. I actually can't get over how much I hate the auto replenish. 2) Free x-rays/supers for...

testyourmight.com

.. and so did several others, Eventhubs had an entire article about it, in January. All this stuff is from the week of reveal.

And people were spreading this news on Reddit, and other places, not just TYM:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/ah5yuu
This is a case of some people simply hearing only what they wanted to hear, instead of actually paying attention to what Ed Boon was saying.

 

[BarakaTile]

No. Nerf Upgraded.

 

[trufenix]

Anybody whose still playing mk11 and bitching about it deserves to not be heard. You are obviously incapable of learning.

 

[Shanedawg1995]

Seems games were a whole lot more fun when patches and pay for online content did not exist
You had to find a way a around something.
Now its like "Fix it!! " Its broken"
Part of the problem to is developers are making games more friendly to lets just say "Little Timmy is a not so good player and whats to win with out puting much effort into labing or finding away around something""
So they patch it so little Timmy will play longer and spend more money on skins and because winning is fun.
All games are doing this now days from fighting games to first person shooters.
Its make the producers more money and screw putting any effort into labing something when I just want my participation trophy!!

 

[PlusFrames]

Yeah well, the evidence is out there:

• https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2019/jan/20/ed-boon-feels-mortal-kombat-11s-custom-variation-system-wont-work-competitive-scene-may-have-base-variations-purpose/
• https://www.gameinformer.com/interview/2019/01/17/ed-boon-talks-mortal-kombat-11s-variations-changes-and-roster

I posted about this at the time:

Overall thoughts on gameplay reveal?

Disappointed. Things I don't like: 1) The bar system. The split between offensive and defensive bars sucks. The fact that bars replenish automatically without needing to actually put work into them sucks. I actually can't get over how much I hate the auto replenish. 2) Free x-rays/supers for...

testyourmight.com

.. and so did several others, Eventhubs had an entire article about it, in January. All this stuff is from the week of reveal.

And people were spreading this news on Reddit, and other places, not just TYM:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/ah5yuu
This is a case of some people simply hearing only what they wanted to hear, instead of actually paying attention to what Ed Boon was saying.

I stand corrected. Sorry. I went back and added a bolded edit to my previous posts.

 

[DarkSado]

Anybody whose still playing mk11 and bitching about it deserves to not be heard. You are obviously incapable of learning.

I guess these pro player don't deserves it like sonicfox and ninjakilla.

 

[Gerchap]

No matter what people will always complain, I guess it’s hard to make everyone happy.

 

[Ilthuain]

I personally really appreciated the responses in that tweet thread about NRS being "lazy".

Like... were these people playing attention when that story about oppressive crunch time came out last year? And more recently, have they noticed that there are certain events that might impact work efficiency? There's a bug going around in case you hadn't noticed.

Ugh. People are furious that there was a patch with visual bug fixes and small QoL improvements. It's so entitled and embarrassing.

 

[spidey300]

nrs players/community don't really know what they want. seems like a lot of y'all don't even play or even know what other games are like and that's sad. both the community and the devs are partly to blame.

 

[spidey300]

There's a happy medium to be found between "meta-changing, tier-flipping patches every month" and "tower consumable bug fixes plus a page and a half of Kitana buffs every 6-7 months". Until NRS finds it, I'm just gonna keep complaining.

Stay mad about it.

complainers rise up. don't let them silence us.

Considering a few individuals as the entire community? No thanks.

that's kinda how it works. big names having a wide influence over a majority of the community

 

[Pizza]

Variation system must be destroyed!

That's the only thing that matters.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Haha, it's funny that in parallel, I was writing a similar post.

3-4 years ago the complaints were the following:

• -Stop listening too much to players and making kneejerk nerfs/buffs
• -Be more conservative in patches instead of 'tier shifting'
• -(And stop patching the game so often, give metas more time to breathe)
• -Less 50/50s
• -Bring footsies back

And in 2020 the complaints are the following:

• -Listen to players more and patch what they want patched immediately
• -Be less conservative in patches and shift tiers around so that the game is more interesting
• -Patch the game more often, give metas less time
• -Bring 50/50s back
• -Footsie-based gameplay is boring

The message is that people will complain no matter what. And that message means legitimate concerns will not get through when we they arise, because the community is complaining nearly 100% of the time.

People say that they want more communication about what NRS is thinking or might do, but then when NRS communicated around reveal time that they might or might not have custom variations in competitive play, and ultimately decided not to for launch, people blew a gasket for for months as if they'd promised them for tournament.

It's almost laughable, but it's really sad, as we're becoming the community that will, for 4 games straight, kill our own competitive scene if we think the game isn't perfect. Constructive criticism balanced with hype is important, but it seems people have forgotten how to do anything constructively.

We're close to a point of no return.

Is this a broad generalization of the NRS community or are there specific examples of people going back on what they said? There's always been disagreements on how nrs design choices and patching methods. Hearing of complaints after changes does not necessarily equal hypocrisy. Also we have to realize that each game brings in new players with different opinions.

That said, I do have my fair share of issues with mk11. That's another topic, though.

 

[HeavyNorse]

that's kinda how it works. big names having a wide influence over a majority of the community

Then what about you? Are you not part of the community? Don't you matter at all? Or are your opinions just reflective of what one of those "big names" are saying, like a sheep following them blindly, not having an individual thought or opinion of your own?

That's kinda a sad mindset to have, imo.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Then what about you? Are you not part of the community? Don't you matter at all? Or are your opinions just reflective of what one of those "big names" are saying, like a sheep following them blindly, not having an individual thought or opinion of your own?

That's kinda a sad mindset to have, imo.

In my experience the opinions of those considered to be unknown are mostly ignored. It's funny to bring up issues early in the games life only to be ignored but then a year later it's the popular opinion because a top player says it.

 

[CY MasterHavik]

Considering a few individuals as the entire community? No thanks.

Dismissing my thoughts because you're going, "It's not the whole community!" shows me you don't know what the hell influence is. If Sonicfox says something people listen. Sir, you're an enabler. How hard is it to see these people I mention aren't no names but people with influence? This isn't Scropionfan69 saying the game is bad, it's a well known player.

Still alive and kicking in a sealed oil drum at the bottom of the ocean maybe.

If you need that NRS fix MK11 is the place to get it, which is why people are so critical and frustrated with the shortcomings of MK11. Not to mention hopeful and invested towards improvements to the gameplay.

The "improvements" you want will lead to more bitching. NRS will never win. Look at what I said at the bottom of the post. This is lip service.

No. Nerf Upgraded.

Didn't they already? She needs to use both an offense and defense bar to do the jump cancels.

Is this a broad generalization of the NRS community or are there specific examples of people going back on what they said? There's always been disagreements on how nrs design choices and patching methods. Hearing of complaints after changes does not necessarily equal hypocrisy. Also we have to realize that each game brings in new players with different opinions.

That said, I do have my fair share of issues with mk11. That's another topic, though.

It isn't a broad generalization, it's a nice a little biopic of the community has been up to from some like CrimsonShadow. As someone who was here from the start, it's 100% true. You'll be surpsie how hypocritical they are. Don't like the other due trying to say it isn't the community certain people.

 

[Wigy]

I think the scenarios around these is being misrepresented.

We act like NRS implemented exactly what we asked for. On patching they went for sweeping idiotic changes to absolutely fuck all or horrendous execution to deal with an agreed issue i.e armour breaks.

Theres a nuanced take on all this but we just jump on the tribalistic camps of

-fuck all NRS.
-im so above all these complaints and these arent issues cause youre just scrubs.

Im definitely guilty of falling into the first camp.

I think NRS’s biggest issue is total lack of communication. There is smaller game companies that have more toxic communities that do a MUCH better job on that front.

I think MK11 is a good game for many to enjoy but i just don’t.

Many complaints have strong merit, lots do not. Misrepresentating each others take entirely doesnt help anything.

 

[Rice]

Even if we would get technically the perfect game there would still be people bitching about the shade of yellow of Scorpion.

Complainers always gonna find something to complain about.

But we shouldnt put everyone in one box, except Mileena fans.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Even if we would get technically the perfect game there would still be people bitching about the shade of yellow of Scorpion.

You legit just described Devil May Cry 5

 

[CY MasterHavik]

I think the scenarios around these is being misrepresented.

We act like NRS implemented exactly what we asked for. On patching they went for sweeping idiotic changes to absolutely fuck all or horrendous execution to deal with an agreed issue i.e armour breaks.

Theres a nuanced take on all this but we just jump on the tribalistic camps of

-fuck all NRS.
-im so above all these complaints and these arent issues cause youre just scrubs.

Im definitely guilty of falling into the first camp.

I think NRS’s biggest issue is total lack of communication. There is smaller game companies that have more toxic communities that do a MUCH better job on that front.

I think MK11 is a good game for many to enjoy but i just don’t.

Many complaints have strong merit, lots do not. Misrepresentating each others take entirely doesnt help anything.

Hard to mispresent when I have been around the block. honesty, anything people wanted they gave them what they ask for. Just because Jacqui has been ran into the ground showed me that they think Jacqui isn't that bad and people just don't like fighting her. First Round KO was insane but people learned the mu now you don't see it a lot. Upgraded is tame now and you rarely see it now. It hasn't been perfect but major shit has been fixed.

 

[spidey300]

Then what about you? Are you not part of the community? Don't you matter at all? Or are your opinions just reflective of what one of those "big names" are saying, like a sheep following them blindly, not having an individual thought or opinion of your own?

That's kinda a sad mindset to have, imo.

they don't speak for me and i agree with some but i mean no. i don't care about communities. nrs has proven that they don't always listen to the big names.

 

[spidey300]

Even if we would get technically the perfect game there would still be people bitching about the shade of yellow of Scorpion.

Complainers always gonna find something to complain about.

But we shouldnt put everyone in one box, except Mileena fans.

no game is perfect but it's clear that mk11 needs help. even with the nerfs scorpion got people still complain way too much about him

 

[DoDaMuSiC]

Hard to mispresent when I have been around the block. honesty, anything people wanted they gave them what they ask for. Just because Jacqui has been ran into the ground showed me that they think Jacqui isn't that bad and people just don't like fighting her. First Round KO was insane but people learned the mu now you don't see it a lot. Upgraded is tame now and you rarely see it now. It hasn't been perfect but major shit has been fixed.

Ehh 1st round ko at the beginning was pretty strong but definitely beatable, offline all her cancels were reactable and her staggers alone were easier to deal with as well. Upgraded is playing a game of her own, that variation is undeniable top 1 and absolutely busted, sure you can lab all her options and they all have ways to deal with, but at the end of the day you are guessing every single time on what shes gonna do, and its not even a 50/50 situation, its more like a 10/10/10....

 

[Obly]

I personally really appreciated the responses in that tweet thread about NRS being "lazy".

Like... were these people playing attention when that story about oppressive crunch time came out last year? And more recently, have they noticed that there are certain events that might impact work efficiency? There's a bug going around in case you hadn't noticed.

Ugh. People are furious that there was a patch with visual bug fixes and small QoL improvements. It's so entitled and embarrassing.

^^This. The NRS community may have a problem with hypocrisy (that's for others to judge), but it's not at all hard to see the rampant sense of self-entitlement.

It's not everyone ofc, but you see the same things over and over: "NRS has to do this thing for us... NRS owes us this and that... how dare NRS not give us this thing we want... " Every patch that doesn't have what they want is a personal snub, and the indignant rage just feeds itself and triggers others, ramping up tempers until everyone starts attacking each other (just like on this board).

I get the frustration, especially when there are some things that honestly should be fixed and the company doesn't communicate well about them. But so much of the self-entitled complaining is completely oblivious to real-world economic and logistical pressures NRS is facing.

• Yes, MK11 has simpler damage routes and execution. I get that many find that boring and too casual-friendly, but NRS cannot make money (and keep producing games) by only appealing to the small group of hardcore gamers that want FGs to be as difficult as possible.
• Yes, balance and mechanics changes have been slow, but it's well-known that NRS devs are terribly overworked, and probably face a lot of corporate pressure to focus on things that make money--especially recently since NRS was (is?) in danger of being sold off. It's not greed, it's just business.
• Yes, we wish they'd communicate more, but how can they realistically make any hard promises these days? The pandemic has no doubt hurt productivity and turned their normal business model upside down. (And let's be honest: more communication would not stop the complaining anyway)

I agree, there are things that should be fixed and things that would be nice to have (wifi filter!). But all our wants take a backseat to reality. We'd all get along better if there was a bit more realism in our discussion.

 

[Metin]

Yeah fuck the Community, Community is our bitch, how they dare to dislike something that i like, if you feel bad create a tread and vomit Upon the Community, this is the best way to find personal peace. For example, after you woke up and drink some coffee and Visit aquaman's profiles on social Media, if it is not enough try destroyer's ones, those two are very dedicated to say something bad about so called Community, if it is still not enough go to the tym and curse the Community because Community means someone else out there, not specific persons by name. it is free to getting relax because this game is very important to continue our lifes in peace. We have to shit Upon someone's mouth and the Community is free to play.