Tom Brady: "Winning in fighting games was more difficult in the 90s".

[DeftMonk]

I agree with what crimson was saying, only to a certain extent tho. Twitch, online sites such as this and discord have brought the gap closer but I feel there is one element that isn’t being brought up which is arcades. Street fighter 3/4, MVc or tekken 3-5 had loooooads of tech/option selects/input buffer destroying inputs and everyone in the arcades regularly knew all that shit. I posted something in my status few days ago about a street fighter 3 option select that made oki in that game kinda like mk11 to an extent imo. In places where arcade scenes are strong, players get real fuckin good. Even now in Asia if u went to an arcade and picked some guy at random who regularly goes there playing kof/tekken he would wiggity wash the large majority of the online community.
Totally agree with what u guys are saying but just thought I would mention this point. It’s too bad arcades seem to be mostly dying in usa (as far as I know). They are a great amount of fun and really the best way to lvl up imo for someone trying to get into a game/community.

 

[DeftMonk]

No doubt that would be called an upset.
Happens in combat sport also. It makes for awesome moments but to be in the top tier of players there has to be consistency.

The statement was " its easier to win in fighting games because the elite gamers don't play fighters"

I took that as the top level fighting game players are not elite gamers.
Again if I have misunderstood what was ment by that fill me in. Not dissing anybodys skill in any game.

His point is like if some guy with 67785 iq and crack head reaction speed wakes up and decides to be a gamer for money he will go for the other genres. I tend to think it doesn’t happen that way tho... if someone falls deep into the gaming abyss via a certain genre he/she/they probably will decide to follow thay genre if they wanna pursue gaming for $. I don’t think anyone playing LoL was originally a guilty gear player and then decided oh wait let’s go play mobas there’s more dough. (Not likely anyway)

 

[Wigy]

Then why am i so good at games still with 99999999 times more players than any fighter? Moved on doesn't mean washed up. You do know that gamer refers to more than just a fighter, right?

You've clearly not moved on. You're known for three things -flying off on rants about the game, scamming people and fishing for props.

Just stop. Nobody's biting.

 

[MKF30]

Can't speak for other FG as I'm selective but for MK, Smash this is DEFINITELY true, no dumb gimmicky elements like the more recent games to rely on. I would probably put SF in here too, the 90's games seemed harder to me at least to win in than some of the recent ones.

Most of the smash people I talk to seem to enjoy Melee the most as it's the most raw Smash.

For MK I definitely would wager most who are really good or just rely on Geras, Jacqui, Scorp constantly in KL etc in MK 11 would get destroyed in a game like MK2, UMK3, MK 4 or MK 9 even tbh. Just saying. Obviously I don't know 100% but I'd bet money on it and I never bet on anything lol.

The more comp for a game will by the law of average mean tougher time, however how the gameplay plays makes a difference too. If there's something gimmicky or broken about a game, naturally you'll have an easier time winning as oppose to a more balanced, less gimmicky game.

 

[Tom Brady]

You've clearly not moved on. You're known for three things -flying off on rants about the game, scamming people and fishing for props.

Just stop. Nobody's biting.

Yet I haven't ranted in eternity. YOU brought up that i am CURRENTLY no good any ANY game hence I am "washed". I said NOTHING about anything I accomplished. I simply corrected you that I have moved on from fighters after nearly 30 years of grinding them. I mean, you'd think someone would understand someone getting tired of fighters after a near THIRTY year grind of traveling to train and compete (which is A LOT of grinding, traveling, and competing). Surely the concept of someone moving on to something else after that kind of grind and having success isn't a foreign and hard to grasp concept. Maybe I moved on because I actually was tired of the FG grind and wanted to move on to something else? Maybe a new and different challenge? Maybe another game and genre had me more interested in them more so than fighters now after years of grinding? NOPE.... it's because I'm "washed" and yet you think its me pushing an agenda? Sounds more like you.

Also, saying I haven't moved on? What does that mean? When you compete at a different game you shouldn't be able to play games like MK for fun or still be a part of the community? I'm literally not allowed to retire from fighters, let my accomplishments speak for themselves, and play for fun? God for bid I'm playing for fun and lose - "Toms washed" "Toms a fraud" "Tom cant cut it in todays games". If I say I'm playing for FUN and retired from being a competitive FG player - "EXCUSES!! Stop being delusional and admit you're a fraud". I mean, WTF can i do man? Can't even do anything for FUN without ppl trying to make it mean something to push the BS narrative they want to sell ppl or cling to themselves. Even if I don't even play and just make YT vids for FUN its - "Toms prop fishing". The no fun rule of this community at its finest.

I'm not sure how ANYTHING in vids like this are any kind of prop fish. Actually... NONE of my YT vids are prop fishing. You just see what you want. PPl were sold a narrative so they put everything I do through the lens of that narrative. I cant do ANYTHING without being accused of something. Any vid i make is a "prop fish", etc... I actually thought of doing a series on FG history, but to you, things like that are just my attempts to prop fish. This site in particular always goes overboard with me. You think everything I do is somehow some sneaky way to prop fish. I literally can't even make a vid like the last 2 just for fun and YT content without being accused of somehow trying to gain credit for past accomplishments. The usual no fun rule that gets applied to me.

 

[NaCl man]

His point is like if some guy with 67785 iq and crack head reaction speed wakes up and decides to be a gamer for money he will go for the other genres. I tend to think it doesn’t happen that way tho... if someone falls deep into the gaming abyss via a certain genre he/she/they probably will decide to follow thay genre if they wanna pursue gaming for $. I don’t think anyone playing LoL was originally a guilty gear player and then decided oh wait let’s go play mobas there’s more dough. (Not likely anyway)

Oh that makes more sense.
Thought it was a shot at fg players my bad.
@Tom Brady @CrimsonShadow @NeroOps

 

[Wigy]

Yet I haven't ranted in eternity. YOU brought up that i am CURRENTLY no good any ANY game hence I am "washed". I said NOTHING about anything I accomplished. I simply corrected you that I have moved on from fighters after nearly 30 years of grinding them. I mean, you'd think someone would understand someone getting tired of fighters after a near THIRTY year grind of traveling to train and compete (which is A LOT of grinding, traveling, and competing). Surely the concept of someone moving on to something else after that kind of grind isn't a foreign and hard to grasp concept.

Also, saying I haven't moved on? What does that mean? When you compete at a different game you shouldn't be able to play games like MK for fun or still be a part of the community? I'm literally not allowed to retire from fighters, let my accomplishments speak for themselves, and play for fun? God for bid I'm playing for fun and lose - "Toms washed" "Toms a fraud" "Tom cant cut it in todays games". If I say I'm playing for FUN and retired from being a competitive FG player - "EXCUSES!! Stop being delusional and admit you're a fraud". I mean, WTF can i do man? Can't even do anything for FUN without ppl trying to make it mean something to push the BS narrative they want to sell ppl or cling to themselves. Even if I don't even play and just make YT vids for FUN its - "Toms prop fishing". The no fun rule of this community at its finest.

I'm not sure how ANYTHING in vids like this are any kind of prop fish. Actually... NONE of my YT vids are prop fishing. You just see what you want. PPl were sold a narrative so they put everything I do through the lens of that narrative. I cant do ANYTHING without being accused of something. Any vid i make is a "prop fish", etc... I actually thought of doing a series on FG history, but to you, things like that are just my attempts to prop fish. This site in particular always goes overboard with me. You think everything I do is somehow some sneaky way to prop fish. I literally can't even make a vid like the last 2 just for fun and YT content without being accused of somehow trying to gain credit for past accomplishments. The usual no fun rule that gets applied to me.

You're totally right, everyone is victimising you based on nothing. We all got together, made a committee, there was cakes and tea and we conspired to make things up about you.

 

[Tom Brady]

You're totally right, everyone is victimising you based on nothing. We all got together, made a committee, there was cakes and tea and we conspired to make things up about you.

And this is what you do, always to the extremes and always making assumptions and saying its me stating them. Again, I didn't say any of that. But, what I did say wasn't wrong.

This is a thread (not made by me) where comments like yours call me "washed" and that I'm "prop fishing" where the topic of said thread are 2 vids where nothing is mentioned of my accomplishments. This probably means that you completely made that up about the content in question just to peddle whatever narrative you wish to fit it under. "There's Tom prop fishing about his accomplishments because he's washed" is the point you were making. I cannot see how any of that is warranted about the content in this thread.

Instead of even attempting to discuss/debate the topic at hand, you just come in and insult me. The only explanation is just pure hatred. You see me as some washed up fraud who is salty that he isn't on top in fighters today. To you anything I do is to peddle an agenda to get props on past accomplishments in the current times, and to give examples or excuses of all the reasons why i'm not winning FG tournaments today. This is all completely untrue because in no way am i saying or insinuating that in the current topic of this thread.

I'd be happy to discuss/debate anything about the actual topic on anything in the vids. Other than that, there isn't much more I can say nor do I wish to stay off topic any further.

 

[OnlineSkunk]

If what he means by "it was harder to win in the 90s" it's the fact that pro players like Sonic Fox and Ninja Killa couldn't attempt tournaments because they were still inside their Dad's genitals then I agree.

 

[OnlineSkunk]

If what he means by "it was harder to win in the 90s" it's the fact that pro players like Sonic Fox and Ninja Killa couldn't attempt tournaments because they were still inside their Dad's genitals then I agree.

P.S. If players that won evo or place top 8 consistently in games made 10 years ago aren't winning anymore it isn't because they became worst but because the competition it's better now than it was 10 years ago. If someone who isn't even a top 10 player can beat them now then they would have been able to do so in fighting games made 10 years ago and they would've been able to be as or more successful back then. Unless it's SFV, that game it's trash lol. I also believe that the lack of knowledge players generally had, the new & small scene and how broken 99% of the roster was in MK9 carried a lot players back then which it's another reason they're washed up ASF now. Fight me!

 

[AREZ God of War]

P.S. If players that won evo or place top 8 consistently in games made 10 years ago aren't winning anymore it isn't because they became worst but because the competition it's better now than it was 10 years ago. If someone who isn't even a top 10 player can beat them now then they would have been able to do so in fighting games made 10 years ago and they would've been able to be as or more successful back then. Unless it's SFV, that game it's trash lol. I also believe that the lack of knowledge players generally had, the new & small scene and how broken 99% of the roster was in MK9 carried a lot players back then which it's another reason they're washed up ASF now. Fight me!

And I could say Manny Pacquiao would have beat Joe Lewis or Sugar Ray Leonard if he was in the same generation. Theory-Fighter is fun too lol

 

[OnlineSkunk]

And I could say Manny Pacquiao would have beat Joe Lewis or Sugar Ray Leonard if he was in the same generation. Theory-Fighter is fun too lol

You can easily disprove my points by providing evidence that human reaction time decreases drastically compared to how people physically become weaker with age, bad comparison & anyways we are talking about the last 10 years here. Cheers

 

[AREZ God of War]

You can easily disprove my points by providing evidence that human reaction time decreases drastically compared to how people physically become weaker with age, bad comparison & anyways we are talking about the last 10 years here. Cheers

Proof? No, that's called Anecdotal Evidence, at best

 

[spidey300]

the competition can't be improving that much. top 5 for final kombat is pretty much what you'd expect. with majors; the old guard are still the main threats and usually place better. even chris g when he feels like it will come in place top 8 like it was nothing and go off and play games he really came to the major for

 

[AREZ God of War]

the competition can't be improving that much. top 5 for final kombat is pretty much what you'd expect. with majors; the old guard are still the main threats and usually place better. even chris g when he feels like it will come in place top 8 like it was nothing and go off and play games he really came to the major for

I have seen many players join MK tournaments just to support the game, myself included and while we still try it's not a big deal because it's not our main game we train for.

I've also seen/played Bill in tournaments in games he hadn't played in years just because he supported it and we wanted bigger pools to be more interesting ...plenty of other people have done it @THTB off the top of my head @Aure @Gerchap @krayziebone, many others i can't think of right now

 

[mastermalone]

The hardest thing about fighting games in the 90's was dealing with broken stuff that usually never got patched via updated boards. Information about tech was slow to trickle in but there were magazines that detailed some really good info. We had EGM, GamePro, Game Fan and Tips & Tricks monthly magazines that had some decent info.

In 1991, I was 17 years old. Street Fighter II started getting really popular and many of these magazines hopped on the hype train with lots of info. There was no real understating of frame data but there was information on block stun. This information turned out to be very useful. Players who did not understand block stun lost to those who did. Tick throws were a real problem for many untrained players. As time went on, fighting games got more complex but nothing like today.

I tend to think if anything, modern fighting game systems are way more complex today than anything we had in the early 90's. You can't just hop in and play anymore. Even with "low barrier to entry" modern fighting games, the number of sub systems makes them more difficult to master than our old Street Fighters, Tekkens and MK's from the 90's.

 

[NaCl man]

Can we get some old school vs new school online tournament happening. Across old and new games. Just a thought and something I would like to see

 

[MKF30]

I think the FG's today are in some ways more complex than the games in the 90's for sure, but also more gimmicky with certain things.

The age thing like with sports(though not that drastic since that's actually physical, FG's isn't) would apply to an older player say in his mid 40s to early 50's vs a kid who just turned 20-25 years obviously due to nature, the latter will have faster reflexes, hand eye coordination etc

Can we get some old school vs new school online tournament happening. Across old and new games. Just a thought and something I would like to see

Yes, that would be interesting and I think you'd have different winners across different generations tbh.

 

[mastermalone]

I think the FG's today are in some ways more complex than the games in the 90's for sure, but also more gimmicky with certain things.

The age thing like with sports(though not that drastic since that's actually physical, FG's isn't) would apply to an older player say in his mid 40s to early 50's vs a kid who just turned 20-25 years obviously due to nature, the latter will have faster reflexes, hand eye coordination etc


Yes, that would be interesting and I think you'd have different winners across different generations tbh.

While true, I'm almost 46 and I still win the majority of my matches. At 22 I was on beast mode back in the day on Street Fighter Alpha 2 when I played at Family Funtime Arcade in Granada Hills, CA. That place was known for churning out really good fighting game players.

While I'm not as quick, I'm still getting fools to quit and send me hate mail via Xbox and PlayStation messages

 

[Son ov Timett]

Brady is seeking validation for hours pissed away on the grind. Understandable, but one should quanitify said hours as being worthy of said grind by something tangible, not external props from the faceless fgc masses. Unless ye got some green stored from tourneys won, no amount of props are equitable to hours pissed away in the fgc. However, if one built lasting or even ephemeral camaraderie with others in the fgc, that can be surmised as a reward worthy of ye efforts. Take solace that you made irl chums by the sweat of your brow. Hold those friends dear, and strengthen those relationships.

Jimmy from Des Moines opinion is inconsequential. No one is going to remember the MK8 champeen come 2049.

 

[xenogorgeous]

While true, I'm almost 46 and I still win the majority of my matches. At 22 I was on beast mode back in the day on Street Fighter Alpha 2 when I played at Family Funtime Arcade in Granada Hills, CA. That place was known for churning out really good fighting game players.

While I'm not as quick, I'm still getting fools to quit and send me hate mail via Xbox and PlayStation messages

yep, that's the spirit

for the physical sports, the young and talented competitors, sure have logical advantage against the old ones and the ones in the end of career, not matter how much experience the olders have ....

for acting, for example, sure that , older actors/actress, normally, are much more good than the young ones, due this job/profession , favour the acumulated experience through life, so, no argument here !

for e-Sports, how age factor works as the ultimate major handicap ? what about the odds envolved ? the disadvantange is huge, or just , only when the technical level among the competitors is abysmal ?

it's a interesting subject to be analyzed all over

 

[M2Dave]

Proof? No, that's called Anecdotal Evidence, at best

Reaction time decreases with age. Research as well as anecdotal evidence support this claim. However, better decision making increases with age, and as I have already said, I am not working $12 an hour, according to a study that Pig conducted, without any health care benefits and a retirement plan.

 

[MKF30]

While true, I'm almost 46 and I still win the majority of my matches. At 22 I was on beast mode back in the day on Street Fighter Alpha 2 when I played at Family Funtime Arcade in Granada Hills, CA. That place was known for churning out really good fighting game players.

While I'm not as quick, I'm still getting fools to quit and send me hate mail via Xbox and PlayStation messages

I'm sure you do haha. Yeah, I sometimes forget you are one of the elders on here that were fortunate enough to play FG's from the start(a compliment btw lol) You got 9 years on me hehe thankfully I've played most FG's as well though not as many you have with digging into the Capcom games especially. But yeah, I can imagine. I liked that game even though I'm pretty sure I was just average. I just blended well with MK more than any other FG for some reason though I also had the SNES version of Alpha 2(yeah the weird one haha) but I have the regular versions like SF collection on Switch I enjoy a lot. Yeah I mean I'm not saying that if you're older you can't win at anything, especially if you have years of experience on it I would wager you would probably beat Sonic Fox in SFAlpha 2, not a dig at him I know he's good at adapting but at the same time given your knowledge on older games and ones you were very solid at I wouldn't underestimate your experience as that's also important.

Was just making a general observation regarding age differences in a lot of games, I mean while I'm still considered young by definition I don't feel like I'm quite as fast myself at times as I was in my early 20's with my reaction time in some games anyway yet I see what you mean, I think once I got back into it within a half hour of playing MKT hardcore again and UMK3 I'd be ready to rock with anyone tbh. MK 9 etc, pretty much any game older or even decades old.

My friend who grew up in Brooklyn was a huge SF 2 fan and MK 2, his guile gives me so much trouble he knows the tricks in that game like I didn't know til about 5 years ago that with Guile apparently he could get a sonic boom stun and get a free throw? I was like how are you doing that, why can't I get out of that and he just smirked lol. So once I got SF collection on switch, we went online and like one guy beat him and gave him lots of trouble ironically with Guile lol. But most he was beating or doing pretty well with him. I don't know how you are in SF 2 games but that would be fun to watch, he's like you a nice, down guy used to play SF 2 and MK 2 back in the day in chinatown brooklyn. You've probably heard of the spots, he used to tell me where he went there were tons of chinese kids on SF and everyone else on MK 2, two different crowds.

 

[mastermalone]

I'm sure you do haha. Yeah, I sometimes forget you are one of the elders on here that were fortunate enough to play FG's from the start(a compliment btw lol) You got 9 years on me hehe thankfully I've played most FG's as well though not as many you have with digging into the Capcom games especially. But yeah, I can imagine. I liked that game even though I'm pretty sure I was just average. I just blended well with MK more than any other FG for some reason though I also had the SNES version of Alpha 2(yeah the weird one haha) but I have the regular versions like SF collection on Switch I enjoy a lot. Yeah I mean I'm not saying that if you're older you can't win at anything, especially if you have years of experience on it I would wager you would probably beat Sonic Fox in SFAlpha 2, not a dig at him I know he's good at adapting but at the same time given your knowledge on older games and ones you were very solid at I wouldn't underestimate your experience as that's also important.

Was just making a general observation regarding age differences in a lot of games, I mean while I'm still considered young by definition I don't feel like I'm quite as fast myself at times as I was in my early 20's with my reaction time in some games anyway yet I see what you mean, I think once I got back into it within a half hour of playing MKT hardcore again and UMK3 I'd be ready to rock with anyone tbh. MK 9 etc, pretty much any game older or even decades old.

My friend who grew up in Brooklyn was a huge SF 2 fan and MK 2, his guile gives me so much trouble he knows the tricks in that game like I didn't know til about 5 years ago that with Guile apparently he could get a sonic boom stun and get a free throw? I was like how are you doing that, why can't I get out of that and he just smirked lol. So once I got SF collection on switch, we went online and like one guy beat him and gave him lots of trouble ironically with Guile lol. But most he was beating or doing pretty well with him. I don't know how you are in SF 2 games but that would be fun to watch, he's like you a nice, down guy used to play SF 2 and MK 2 back in the day in chinatown brooklyn. You've probably heard of the spots, he used to tell me where he went there were tons of chinese kids on SF and everyone else on MK 2, two different crowds.

I would love to play sonic fox in Street Fighter Alpha 2! I can play anyone in the cast in Alpha 2. Reading what you wrote about Chinatown made me miss the 90's arcade scene. There was nothing like waiting your turn by placing your quarter on the arcade cabinet hoping to dominate when your turn comes. When you actually start dominating, the look of fear and admiration from onlookers was priceless!

 

[Tom Brady]

Brady is seeking validation for hours pissed away on the grind. Understandable, but one should quanitify said hours as being worthy of said grind by something tangible, not external props from the faceless fgc masses. Unless ye got some green stored from tourneys won, no amount of props are equitable to hours pissed away in the fgc. However, if one built lasting or even ephemeral camaraderie with others in the fgc, that can be surmised as a reward worthy of ye efforts. Take solace that you made irl chums by the sweat of your brow. Hold those friends dear, and strengthen those relationships.

Jimmy from Des Moines opinion is inconsequential. No one is going to remember the MK8 champeen come 2049.

I'm not sure where anywhere in these video is about me seeking vindication? Whats funny is ppl say to me "Hey Tom, you see REO's MK9 vids? Man, you should do something like this too for MK9 and the older games". But I know that this will only be seen as me seeking some type of credit or validation. I literally can do nothing with any fighter in this community without ppl thinking i'm seeking praise. God forbid I do some MKDA vids, "prop fish" incoming. Not like I'd do it for fun or anything..