Tom Brady: "Winning in fighting games was more difficult in the 90s".

[Wigy]

Tom be quiet. You're washed up and just constantly try say shit to fish for props.

 

[Tom Brady]

Tom be quiet. You're washed up and just constantly try say shit to fish for props.

Then why am i so good at games still with 99999999 times more players than any fighter? Moved on doesn't mean washed up. You do know that gamer refers to more than just a fighter, right?

 

[ExpectFlames]

Then why am i so good at games still with 99999999 times more players than any fighter? Moved on doesn't mean washed up. You do know that gamer refers to more than just a fighter, right?

I like the new direction you hitten us with, your no longer Mk FGC tom Brady your TOM BRADY gaming salute the rebrand.
Did you ever get WF for wolcen?

 

[Error404]

Did he win anything back than? If yes then there's your answer

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Just responding to the title bc I don’t have the time to listen to this stuff but it’s very simple.

games are easier to play now but the competition is way harder.

no way was it easier to win in the 90’s.

I think the bigger thing to consider here are really good players that get old and washed up (like me). They are not on top or being talked about anymore and they can’t handle it. They look for excuses as to why they are not doing well or inflate their previous success in an attempt to validate all the time they invested into something without a return. Perfect legend is also super guilty of this.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

This argument is ridiculous.

And I’ve told Tom that 3-4 times on the phone.. As recently as last week.

Tom has become that 65-year-old “back in my day” guy. He’s sitting on the porch rocking back and forth and telling kids stories about The Good Old days.

But in all seriousness, it’s hard to take someone seriously when all of their arguments are constructed to benefit themself. To think that EVO was more difficult when tournaments had 100 players instead of 1000 players armed with meta info and frame data.. That’s a stretch indeed.

This is the first post in the history of tym I agree with you in 100%

 

[Tom Brady]

Just responding to the title bc I don’t have the time to listen to this stuff but it’s very simple.

games are easier to play now but the competition is way harder.

no way was it easier to win in the 90’s.

I think the bigger thing to consider here are really good players that get old and washed up (like me). They are not on top or being talked about anymore and they can’t handle it. They look for excuses as to why they are not doing well or inflate their previous success in an attempt to validate all the time they invested into something without a return. Perfect legend is also super guilty of this.

No doubt todays players are amazing, the players after them will be as well, and so on and so on.. Such is life, such is the world.. Evolution of games, players, etc is inevitable and ridiculous to think that things in the world shrink rather than expand over the years. No way did I ever say its harder to win in the 90s than it is now. In fact, only half of what i put up is actually in the thread which is a typical TYM move.

I also agree that there are ppl not doing well or inflate their previous success in an attempt to validate all the time they invested into something without a return. But I think there are others who are simply done. They accomplished what they wanted over decades of consistent success and now its time to move on and watch todays players dominate. However this is where the MK community cannot tell the difference. They cannot tell the difference between someone who says its time to move on and someone trying to stay in their glory days. Also, obviously hating on ppl to paint the narrative that ppl want to push. Imagine someone achieving rank 1 world in a game with 9999 times the player base of any fighter while ppl say you're washed in games and "that doesn't count, its not a fighting game". Thats just as guilty of pushing a self serving narrative of the ppl that are accused of it.


For me, telling old stories isn't living in the past, its sharing fun memories of fun times. I'm human.. this is what everyone does. One day even Sonic will be 50 and telling stories. I lived an FGC life longer than most ppl currently here will ever live combined and there is so much that i can give back to a scene that I love. I have so many stories and memories of all that I experienced. For a community to dehumanize me by acting like sharing these moments isn't something that we all do and will do is just a bit over the top. I'm not saying "get off my lawn", i'm saying "sit on my lawn, have some drinks while we share things about the FGC".

But I can't even post 2 videos showing both sides of this debate for fun and YT content which is something every youtuber does. Instead it's tym so we only post HALF of it and misquote it to just keep crucifying the same guy. I can't even play an older game on stream for FUN without "living in the past". I'm not someone trying to relieve the glory days of nearly THIRTY years of being top. I'm secure in what I did and I think the "it doesn't count" nonsense is just an excuse ppl who don't accomplish with they think they should use today to feel better about themselves. I just want to be able to play fighters for FUN without a community making every game a legacy match where winning or losing today means anything once you hang it up. The no fun rule scares quite a few ppl away from the scene.

 

[Tom Brady]

There is one thing I do want to clear up though because I hear it quite often here.

"There was no frame data":
From 1991 - 2000 this was true. But with the console era came frame data. Tekken, DOA, SC, SF, MVC, VF etc had their full frame data known. It was literally ONLY Mortal Kombat where we had to figure out the frame data ourselves. Even in 2011 with MK9, EVERY other game had full frame data except MK. To say winning in a game like Tekken 4 was doing it when no one knew frame data is a complete lie only told by and believed by the MK community.

"There was no internet":
People here would have you believe that there was no internet before 2015 as if high speed broadband is something freshly invented. In truth, Killer Instinct actually had the best net code ever created years earlier even though it's said by this community that there was no internet during that time. This idea that there was no internet before 2015 is again something only told by and believed by the MK community. There were so many forums and ways to communicate and share information, let ppl know about tournaments, arrange sessions, etc. There were thousands of vids on youtube of players, matches, tech, etc.


There is a lot more and maybe I'll do a couple of vids on it for fun so HALF of it can be posted and misquoted. I'm actually not sure if these are things ppl really believe or are just said as a troll here lol.

NONE of this means it was harder to win then, its just pointing out that there is a bit of exaggeration here.

 

[xKMMx]

I think from a knowledge perspective it was harder to get into high level play with fighting games back in the day. I can honestly say that back in the 90's when I was 10-15 and obsessed with Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat. No one I knew had any kind of clue about how these games actually functioned. None of us had ever even heard of frame data, or had any access to tech. Honestly we all thought being able to hit consistent DP inputs without fail meant we were GOOD!!!
So in that sense I think it was harder to be good at fighting games back in the day but honestly nowadays there are so many people even online that are relatively respectable players due to the massive amount of tech and game info available.

 

[Marinjuana]

Hey MK community, can I ask you something?

Spoiler

 

[NaCl man]

Part 2. Ive not watched it yet

 

[NaCl man]

Ok watched most if it and it starts off well....
Near the end it looses me and to be honest gets a bit silly so I had to stop.

In short the start is clearing up the 1st video and the end is about the "elite gamers of the world dont play fighting games so the real competition isnt there".

Kinda like saying the best soccer players in the world dont play basketball so Michael Jordan was great because there was no real competition.

Thats what I got from it anyway

 

[Tom Brady]

Ok watched most if it and it starts off well....
Near the end it looses me and to be honest gets a bit silly so I had to stop.

In short the start is clearing up the 1st video and the end is about the "elite gamers of the world dont play fighting games so the real competition isnt there".

Kinda like saying the best soccer players in the world dont play basketball so Michael Jordan was great because there was no real competition.

Thats what I got from it anyway

In summery...

I detailed all the eras, why it was actually easier back then but still not without its own hardships, and closed with it is in fact HARDER to win in fighters today compared to fighters back then. HOWEVER.. fighters are in fact the easiest of any main stream competitive game to win in as they have the least amount of competition of all the competitive games.

 

[M2Dave]

1. i never EVER stated it was "harder to win in the 90s".

I watched the whole video and I thought my summary of your perspective was fair.

2. i made a part 2.

There was no part 2 when I created this thread.

3. part 1 was more in fun for YT content.

The content is public so you are not exempted from criticism.

4. its tym so OBVIOUSLY only pt 1 is up and im seriously misquoted.

Again, I watched the whole video and I thought my summary of your perspective was fair.

..... damn, you can see that even the past MK9 generation players that came out that time , cannot put up with playing and competing toe to toe with the young generation that come out in/during MKX, or the very new ones that are now in MK11, so, you can imagine what the next MK game will demand in terms of gaming hability level ?

"Cannot put up with playing and competing... with the young generation"? Most likely, yet the Mortal Kombat 9 generation also no longer live with their parents and prefer not to compete for $12 an hour so Tom is correct in this respect. If someone wants to pay $30-40 an hour and offer full health care benefits, the Mortal Kombat 9 generation will play eight hours a day in order to keep up with the "young generation". All sponsors are welcome. LOL.

 

[NaCl man]

In summery...

I detailed all the eras, why it was actually easier back then but still not without its own hardships, and closed with it is in fact HARDER to win in fighters today compared to fighters back then. HOWEVER.. fighters are in fact the easiest of any main stream competitive game to win in as they have the least amount of competition of all the competitive games.

Yeah the first part of the 2nd vid I get and thought it was a good way of looking at the differences between the two eras.

It was the last part I disagree with. I get what you mean but the top is the top.
NBA is the top basketball comp.
Twt is the top tekken comp.
Capcom cup is the top sf comp.

What I mean is all games have a top comp you have to earn your way into.

I think if you throw all of the people who brought tekken7 for example in a tournament all 5 million owners of the game the best players we have in that game now would still be at the top because of their understanding of the game. I dont think its about numbers.

 

[AREZ God of War]

"Cannot put up with playing and competing... with the young generation"? Most likely, yet the Mortal Kombat 9 generation also no longer live with their parents and prefer not to compete for $12 an hour so Tom is correct in this respect. If someone wants to pay $30-40 an hour and offer full health care benefits, the Mortal Kombat 9 generation will play eight hours a day in order to keep up with the "young generation". All sponsors are welcome. LOL.

Now THAT is the M2Dave that I know

 

[xenogorgeous]

"Cannot put up with playing and competing... with the young generation"? Most likely, yet the Mortal Kombat 9 generation also no longer live with their parents and prefer not to compete for $12 an hour so Tom is correct in this respect. If someone wants to pay $30-40 an hour and offer full health care benefits, the Mortal Kombat 9 generation will play eight hours a day in order to keep up with the "young generation". All sponsors are welcome. LOL.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Yeah the first part of the 2nd vid I get and thought it was a good way of looking at the differences between the two eras.

It was the last part I disagree with. I get what you mean but the top is the top.
NBA is the top basketball comp.
Twt is the top tekken comp.
Capcom cup is the top sf comp.

What I mean is all games have a top comp you have to earn your way into.

I think if you throw all of the people who brought tekken7 for example in a tournament all 5 million owners of the game the best players we have in that game now would still be at the top because of their understanding of the game. I dont think its about numbers.

Fighting games don’t really work that way, though. Even the biggest tournament, EVO, is still one event where pools happen on one day. Which means that you don’t just have to beat whoever makes top 8; even the best players can be knocked off by someone they didn’t expect, who was playing well that day, or playing an unconventional MU in pools. You have to be ready for everybody.

Look at the SFV EVO results.. It’s like a bloodbath. You have players who’ve made Top 8 at huge majors ending up 33rd and below. Lots of people end up being upset or knocked off by guys with much less of a name. You don’t get an hour-long sports match to come back and win — you get two short FT2 sets to lose and you’re out.

So no, it’s definitely not the NBA. FGs require you to be ready for anyone, anywhere, at any time.. And with the size of today’s tournaments, that’s a tall order. There are far more skilled midlevel players who can upset someone on a given day.

The only tournaments that are more insulated from this are invitationals and ‘series finals’ like Final Kombat or the Capcom Cup Finals. But that’s only 1-2 tournaments a year, and you still have to deal with random sharks and gatekeepers at all the others. It’s just not the same.

 

[Tom Brady]

Fighting games don’t really work that way, though. Even the biggest tournament, EVO, is still one event where pools happen on one day. Which means that you don’t just have to beat whoever makes top 8; even the best players can be knocked off by someone they didn’t expect, who was playing well that day, or playing an unconventional MU in pools. You have to be ready for everybody.

Look at the SFV EVO results.. It’s like a bloodbath. You have players who’ve made Top 8 at huge majors ending up 33rd and below. Lots of people end up being upset or knocked off by guys with much less of a name. You don’t get an hour-long sports match to come back and win — you get two short FT2 sets to lose and you’re out.

So no, it’s definitely not the NBA. FGs require you to be ready for anyone, anywhere, at any time.. And with the size of today’s tournaments, that’s a tall order. There are far more skilled midlevel players who can upset someone on a given day.

The only tournaments that are more insulated from this are the invitationals and ‘series finals’ like Final Kombat or the Capcom Cup Finals. But that’s only 1-2 tournaments a year, and you still have to deal with random sharks and gatekeepers at all the others. It’s just not the same.

So we agree then that more players is more competition which makes it harder to win, correct? I hope you know that this applies to everything competitive is what i was ultimately getting at as i finished part 2. It always gets harder and will only continue to get harder going forward. There is no way it isn't harder to succeed in games today as opposed to 15-20 years ago.

 

[Xelz]

Tom also had to walk up hill both ways to and from school, in the snow, which was 10' deep, in blizzard conditions, without a jacket, while wearing shorts, in the dark, carrying 30lbs of books, during an earthquake, while the minions of Cthulhu ravaged the planet.

 

[NaCl man]

Fighting games don’t really work that way, though. Even the biggest tournament, EVO, is still one event where pools happen on one day. Which means that you don’t just have to beat whoever makes top 8; even the best players can be knocked off by someone they didn’t expect, who was playing well that day, or playing an unconventional MU in pools. You have to be ready for everybody.

Look at the SFV EVO results.. It’s like a bloodbath. You have players who’ve made Top 8 at huge majors ending up 33rd and below. Lots of people end up being upset or knocked off by guys with much less of a name. You don’t get an hour-long sports match to come back and win — you get two short FT2 sets to lose and you’re out.

So no, it’s definitely not the NBA. FGs require you to be ready for anyone, anywhere, at any time.. And with the size of today’s tournaments, that’s a tall order. There are far more skilled midlevel players who can upset someone on a given day.

The only tournaments that are more insulated from this are invitationals and ‘series finals’ like Final Kombat or the Capcom Cup Finals. But that’s only 1-2 tournaments a year, and you still have to deal with random sharks and gatekeepers at all the others. It’s just not the same.

It's easier to win in fighting games because they have the least amount of competition

If you compete in any other game it's harder because the players are more skilled then those who are playing fighting games because a high percentage of the world's elite aren't playing fighting games

Statements like this discredit top players in fighters. I dont care how many "elite gamers" come and play what ever fighter they want they will get mopped at the top.

More people play other games because they are more accessible. The degree if difficulty to play at the intermediate level in a shooter is a hell of a lot easier then a fighter let alone the top level.

 

[NeroOps]

I dont care how many "elite gamers" come and play what ever fighter they want they will get mopped at the top.

Statements like that discredit peoples skill in general. People prove they can body top players all the time.
You can't just be on one side of the discussion bandwagoning top players that have done the exact same thing.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

It's easier to win in fighting games because they have the least amount of competition

If you compete in any other game it's harder because the players are more skilled then those who are playing fighting games because a high percentage of the world's elite aren't playing fighting games

Statements like this discredit top players in fighters. I dont care how many "elite gamers" come and play what ever fighter they want they will get mopped at the top.

More people play other games because they are more accessible. The degree if difficulty to play at the intermediate level in a shooter is a hell of a lot easier then a fighter let alone the top level.

The statement was comparing fighting games to fighting games. Comparing across genres is completely different as they take totally different skills.

 

[NaCl man]

The statement was comparing fighting games to fighting games. Comparing across genres is completely different as they take totally different skills.

Thats What I thought he was saying from that statement.

Fighting games are easier to win in because the elite gamers don't play fighters.

That was the statement I'm talking about. So if they decided to play fighters we are all doomed?

@Tom Brady Correct me if I'm hearing this wrong but thats what I got from it.

 

[NaCl man]

Statements like that discredit peoples skill in general. People prove they can body top players all the time.
You can't just be on one side of the discussion bandwagoning top players that have done the exact same thing.

No doubt that would be called an upset.
Happens in combat sport also. It makes for awesome moments but to be in the top tier of players there has to be consistency.

The statement was " its easier to win in fighting games because the elite gamers don't play fighters"

I took that as the top level fighting game players are not elite gamers.
Again if I have misunderstood what was ment by that fill me in. Not dissing anybodys skill in any game.