Joker Movie Discussion **Major Spoilers Inside**

[Spektor]

Uh. It doesn't mean just because its a "true" origin story that it doesn't need to show the character develop into any kind of a shadow of who hes supposed to be... By your explanation a batman origin story is just about a spoiled cchild for an hour and 45 minutes then his parents die credits roll. I get your overjoyed about the mental illness and society parts about this movie and im glad you enjoy that part. I just mentioned I don't really think the guy in this movie could ever become who the joker is in any lore ever.

I like the movie, but I do think it would have been slightly better if it had nothing to do with Batman and the Joker.

 

[Juggs]

Uh. It doesn't mean just because its a "true" origin story that it doesn't need to show the character develop into any kind of a shadow of who hes supposed to be... By your explanation a batman origin story is just about a spoiled cchild for an hour and 45 minutes then his parents die credits roll. I get your overjoyed about the mental illness and society parts about this movie and im glad you enjoy that part. I just mentioned I don't really think the guy in this movie could ever become who the joker is in any lore ever.

I didn’t say it “had” to be anything. The direction of this movie wasn’t to show Joker’s villainous prowess, that wasn’t at all what Todd Phillips and Scott Silver were going for with this adaptation. Joker’s past has always been largely mysterious. They wanted to approach his origin in a more realistic way. With the direction they took this film, it could be that his abilities as the Joker haven’t even been developed yet. Considering he was on medication basically his entire life. And as soon as he’s off it, he starts becoming truly himself. Perhaps the medication was numbing his brain and it was holding back his evil genius. That’s another brilliant part about this movie, a lot of it is ambiguous and you use your imagination to fill in the blanks. Similar to Inception in that regard.

 

[DeftMonk]

I like the movie, but I do think it would have been slightly better if it had nothing to do with Batman and the Joker.

Ya thats kinda what im gettin at. I am a huge comic buff and this guy doesn't really strike me as any kind of rendition of the joker. Just not on that large scale level of maniacal terror that joker is capable of imo. But like taxi driver it has a point and the acting si done well.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I thought he did a great job, I like it as a stand-alone. And yeah this joker wouldn’t be a match to Batman but he never has to be because this isn’t that kind of movie. Best version of the Joker I think is from the Arkham games (probably the best Batman too lol)

 

[Saboteur-6]

Movie was great, really enjoyed it. Phoenix captured Joker's iconic laugh in a way that was as humanizing as it was haunting. People that dig Joker as this ambiguous anarchist villain might not care for this portrayal as much though.

Also, I think people want there to be some racial political subtext to the movie because of the black female as a love interest, the black female clinicians, and the black mother on the bus. I think that's reaching personally but, I'd have to watch it again.

To me, the main themes were commentaries on classism and how mental health is perceived in our culture.

 

[Juggs]

My main critique is the whole Wayne stuff felt a little forced. Also, did they ever say his age in the movie? I don’t remember. But let’s be generous and say he’s 35 in the film and Bruce has always been said to be 8 years old when his parents died. So that means when Bruce is Joker’s age as depicted in the film, Joker would be 62? That seems way off. I don’t know much lore or comic book wise or anything, but that just seems wrong. Maybe someone can educate me on this.

 

[DeftMonk]

My main critique is the whole Wayne stuff felt a little forced. Also, did they ever say his age in the movie? I don’t remember. But let’s be generous and say he’s 35 in the film and Bruce has always been said to be 8 years old when his parents died. So that means when Bruce is Joker’s age as depicted in the film, Joker would be 62? That seems way off. I don’t know much lore or comic book wise or anything, but that just seems wrong. Maybe someone can educate me on this.

Ya that’s also what I’m getting at. The Wayne stuff also felt forced. Movie woulda been better off if they removed all the dc stuff and called it “clown” or something.

 

[Marlow]

I probably won't get a chance to see this movie for awhile, but just for some perspective here are some reviews from places I find pretty trustworthy. Just posting them for contrast.

Joker’s throwback vision is derivative, but at least it brings something new to superhero cinema

Joker (Grade: B-), an operatic and fashionably nihilistic smear of comic-book mythmaking that already feels like a phenomenon a whole month before it’s even scheduled to open, is a movie that could only exist right now, at this exact moment in pop culture history. There is, for one, a certain...

film.avclub.com

'Joker' Is Wild ... ly Dull

Todd Phillips' film features a bravura central performance and a style that, while dutifully imitative, engenders a claustrophobic sense of dread. But it's all in service of precisely nothing.

www.npr.org

Sounds like Joaquin Phoenix does a great job.

 

[Spektor]

I probably won't get a chance to see this movie for awhile, but just for some perspective here are some reviews from places I find pretty trustworthy. Just posting them for contrast.

Joker’s throwback vision is derivative, but at least it brings something new to superhero cinema

Joker (Grade: B-), an operatic and fashionably nihilistic smear of comic-book mythmaking that already feels like a phenomenon a whole month before it’s even scheduled to open, is a movie that could only exist right now, at this exact moment in pop culture history. There is, for one, a certain...

film.avclub.com

'Joker' Is Wild ... ly Dull

Todd Phillips' film features a bravura central performance and a style that, while dutifully imitative, engenders a claustrophobic sense of dread. But it's all in service of precisely nothing.

www.npr.org

Sounds like Joaquin Phoenix does a great job.

He really does. He elevates this movie above any minor gripes I had with it with his performance. Money well spent.

 

[Marlow]

quick aside, I just started reading a book called Story Structure Architect, and while the book is primarily designed as sort of an aid to help writers, it actually offers some pretty good insight into evaluating story structure in general. It's really easy to read, and uses a lot of popular movies as examples. For example it demonstrates the difference between a story that is plot driven and a story that is character driven. I just find it an interesting way to help evaluate stories in movies, videogames, or whatever. A good way to gain some insights, if you're a big movie, tv show, or story buff.

 

[Ram]

Really enjoyed it, want to see it again soon

 

[DeftMonk]

I probably won't get a chance to see this movie for awhile, but just for some perspective here are some reviews from places I find pretty trustworthy. Just posting them for contrast.

Joker’s throwback vision is derivative, but at least it brings something new to superhero cinema

Joker (Grade: B-), an operatic and fashionably nihilistic smear of comic-book mythmaking that already feels like a phenomenon a whole month before it’s even scheduled to open, is a movie that could only exist right now, at this exact moment in pop culture history. There is, for one, a certain...

film.avclub.com

'Joker' Is Wild ... ly Dull

Todd Phillips' film features a bravura central performance and a style that, while dutifully imitative, engenders a claustrophobic sense of dread. But it's all in service of precisely nothing.

www.npr.org

Sounds like Joaquin Phoenix does a great job.

that second review is kinda exactly how I felt.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

My main critique is the whole Wayne stuff felt a little forced. Also, did they ever say his age in the movie? I don’t remember. But let’s be generous and say he’s 35 in the film and Bruce has always been said to be 8 years old when his parents died. So that means when Bruce is Joker’s age as depicted in the film, Joker would be 62? That seems way off. I don’t know much lore or comic book wise or anything, but that just seems wrong. Maybe someone can educate me on this.

So this I was okay with because of how it connects Batman to the city and the Joker in a not cringey way. Thomas and Martha being killed presumably because of the up rest Arthur caused in the city makes Bruce’s mission not just about fighting crime but about restoring Gotham which some Batman stories miss.

Not that this movie is remotely as fantastical as the comics but in the new 52 when Batman gets control of the mobius chair he learns that he had at that point fought 3 different Jokers and even he as the world’s greatest detective couldn’t figure out which was which. So Arthur hypothetically could be one of many individuals which make up the “Joker” who is more of an idea that Batman fights.

 

[Saboteur-6]

 

[stokedAF]

What a great fucking movie. Much better than I was expecting. He did an amazing job with the character.

 

[Plays2_MX]

What a great fucking movie. Much better than I was expecting. He did an amazing job with the character.

That scene were he made his smile out of his blood is already iconic. Best scene of the movie and will forever give me goosebumps.

 

[Hacenit]

I really liked that he got in the position of an inspiring figure by complete accident. He's just a guy with problems who had one bad day too many.
I see people in here saying that they can't imagine this joker being capable of elaborate plans, but there is about 20 years gap between this and the time he meets batman. Seeing as he is now ready to take control and has a loyal following it's a great starting point for him.

 

[MKF30]

Amazing movie and so happy the media's BS backfired hard on their stupid asses. Phoenix is definitely going to get nominated, hopefully gets an award because he deserves one for that amazing performance. Definitely rivals Ledger's Joker for sure. I felt so bad for this Joker at times, and also so bad for Bruce at the end. The movie is breaking records nobody imagined, it already broke Venom for best comic book movie in October. I hope DC makes more of these Black Label/alternate universe like stories, darker, grittier. I'm so hoping they make an Injustice film at some point. Make Superman hardcore like Homelander in Boys, that shit would be amazing.

On the age difference, it's not that big of a deal because in the comics we don't know Joker's age for one. He's a mystery, secondly this is an alternate universe so when you do that you can do anything. Perhaps in this universe there's a 25 year age difference let's say Joker is 30 ish in this movie, Bruce is said to be 9 I read somewhere or 10. Whatever. But even in Keaton's Batman, Joker was way older. He was like probably in his late 20's when Bruce was like 8 or 9. So this isn't really that big of a deal to me unless it's like 50 years+ difference.

 

[Swindle]

All of you is right. All of you is important.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I like that he is more of a horrific character like in the comics. He should be visually disturbing like comic Joker, I could see this guy cutting his own face off for example

 

[MKF30]

Yeah I can definitely picture this Joker or Ledger's cutting off their face but for two different reasons. One would be cause he's just crazy and chaotic, probably bored. The other as a sign of being mentally disturbed and unique, try to make people laugh.

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

"I hope my death makes more cents than my life"

 

[joffocakes]

I enjoyed it a fair bit. I'm not into comics and generally avoid the big superhero films but was interested in this because we watched You Were Never Really Here recently and Joaquin Phoenix was superb that (and coincidentally there are some plot parallels with Joker too).

It's not as good as that film but Phoenix carries it very well. It is unfortunately a bit heavy-handed with the Batman stuff. Like others have said, I think I'd have preferred the movie if it were entirely divorced of that stuff. There were other moments where I wish there'd been little more ambiguity. Events would be implied then they'd make them explicit through dialogue or flashbacks, cheapening it a little. Minor complaints though, really. Plus t's a beautiful looking film.

I did watch King Of Comedy before this too (not a coincidence; a friend recommended it after the Joker trailer), was that a conscious inspiration for this?

Oh, one thing that bothered me is the mocking of Arthur for the "Well they're not laughing now!" joke. That's a great (Monkhouse?) joke!

 

[colby4898]

I wasnt a huge of fan of the chat show scene. I think the fact it went on so long made it too unrealistic. The dialogue should have been shorter before he killed him I think. It just went on a bit.

I also kinda wish the Bruce and his family weren't really involved in his insanity. Have his dad mentioned sure, so we're reminded this is Gotham. But I didnt like the fact there was a thing about Bruce being his brother, and that he met his dad (I cant remember Bruce's dad name)

8/10.

 

[MKF30]

The reason it went on was because joker had to make his point first before just killing murray. I felt it was fine because if he had killed him off the bat, would have felt rushed.